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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Metallic Ticking noise coming from engine?



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      10-14-2009, 11:53 AM   #1079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cimbali View Post
I didnt read this whole thread...but maybe this recent bulletin would be useful/applicable:

September 2009

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B11 09 07 dated January 2009.

SUBJECT
Intermittent Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA) Noise

MODEL
All E82, E83, E88, E85, E86, E60, E61, E70, E90, E91, E92 and E93 vehicles with N51, N52 or N52K engines produced approximately up to November 31st 2008; refer to cylinder head casting identification attachment.


SITUATION
An occasional ticking or rattling noise from the camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA) may occur during cold engine starts, due to frequent short-distance driving, or the noise may occur for an extended period of time even though the engine is at operating temperature.

Improved parts were phased into production beginning on 10/1/2008 and fully implemented on November 31st 2008.

CORRECTION
Do not perform the bleeding procedure that was previously provided in SI B11 09 07 which has now been deleted.

All vehicles produced between 10/1/2008 and 11/31/2008 must have each vehicle's cylinder head casting number identified before hydraulic valve lifters (HVA) replacement, due to staggered implementation. Refer to the attachment for the casting number location. Vehicles produced after 11/31/2008 have already been fitted with improved parts. Vehicles produced prior to 10/1/2008 will require the new parts.

Improved Casting Numbers

N51 (B30)
7588277.01

N52 (B30)
7588273.01

N52K (B30)
7588271.01

A cylinder head casting number that does not match will require replacement of the 12 exhaust camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA) as per Repair Instruction RA 11 33 050, Removing and installing/replacing all rocker arms. Only the exhaust camshaft and rocker arms have to be removed in order to replace the hydraulic valve lifters. Do not remove or replace any intake camshaft valve train components.

PARTS INFORMATION
Part Number
Description
Quantity

11 33 7 605 330
Hydraulic Valve Lifter (HVA)
12

Refer to EPC for additional gaskets, seals and bolts, as required by the Repair Instructions.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty, or the Certified Pre-Owned program.

Please refer to the latest KSD for the applicable Main or Associated labor allowance for the specific model.

Defect Code:
11 33 93 39 00


Labor Operation:
Labor Allowance:
Description:

00 58 248
Refer to KSD
Replace exhaust camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA)

*Main Work

or

00 58 827
Refer to KSD
Replace exhaust camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA)

+ Associated Work

Note: The following explanations will spell out the correct use of the work times.

Main Work:
Use this labor operation number when the only repair performed is the listed warranty repair.


OR


+Associated Work:
Use this labor operation number when other repairs or services are performed along with the listed warranty repair.
Under no circumstances should both labor operation numbers be claimed. Attempts to claim both times will result in an unnecessary delay in claim processing and payment.
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      10-14-2009, 12:10 PM   #1080
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^ Thanks man!

Any idea if a modded e92 asking for this fix would run into some issues having it warranted?
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      10-14-2009, 02:50 PM   #1081
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Update on my situation. Gave BMW NA a call for the last time and my dealer agreed to check the car for free.
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      10-15-2009, 05:02 PM   #1082
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i just got my car back from doing this procedure. they replaced my lifters completely.

after receiving my car back, my car now bogs during idle (VERY rough idle) and stalled on me TWICE. i'm taking it back to the dealer after this reply

here's my invoice and proof of work for those interested in what was done

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      10-15-2009, 05:06 PM   #1083
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Sounds like when they replaced it, a seal was ruptured. The rough idle is likely caused by a lean fuel/air mix. Took my dealer a few days to find the pin hole leak causing the rough idle/engine light.
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      10-15-2009, 05:17 PM   #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtype0 View Post
Sounds like when they replaced it, a seal was ruptured. The rough idle is likely caused by a lean fuel/air mix. Took my dealer a few days to find the pin hole leak causing the rough idle/engine light.
i will definitely bring up this suggestion. thanks!
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      10-16-2009, 11:43 AM   #1085
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One more reason I am going to Wait until Mine is ticking ALL the time..
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      10-16-2009, 03:34 PM   #1086
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I just had one occurance of ticking for about 2-3 minutes. That was a week ago and no problem since. I will wait and see. I really think BMW should extend the warranty on all cars that could have this defect for this know defect. I don't expect them to extend the entire warranty but when a company knows there is a defect and has made changes in the design to repair the issue they should make it right with every customer that is likely to have this issue pop up. Heck I have a Dell laptop that has had three motherboards due to a known defect and they have extended the warranty on this issue because they admit that it was a defective part. That is a $400 repair on a $1400 laptop.
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      10-18-2009, 10:38 AM   #1087
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I just brought my car to the dealer for this. Printed out the bulletin from here and gave it to them. Should hear back monday about it. I have 15K miles on mine.
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      10-20-2009, 10:19 PM   #1088
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Ticking Noise SBSI B 11 09 07 -N52 Engine HVA System

The ticking noise is a known problem with the N52 (3.0L) engine fitted to e90 series vehicle. I have the problem with my 3 series wagon which now has 68K miles. I only get the problem if I travel short journey's, most of my driving is 30 mile min. so I don't here the noise very often. The real fix is to change the cylinder head, my dealer said because I reported it during the warranty period they would repair it if the SB fix does not work, so far it does.

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI 11 09 07 dated April 2008.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
Intermittent Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA): "Ticking" or "Rattling" Noises


MODEL
All E82, E83, E85, E86, E88, E60, E61, E70, E90, E91, E92, and E93 with the N51, N52 or N52K engines


SITUATION
An occasional ticking or rattling noise from the HVA elements may occur during cold engine starts or frequent short-distance driving.

CAUSE
In these situations, the HVA elements may not yet have been supplied with sufficient amounts of air-free oil. This condition will not cause any damage to the engine, and usually remedies itself with a longer driving distance or operating times at full operating temperature.

CORRECTION
In the event of a customer complaint, please perform the following the HVA bleeding procedure.

PROCEDURE
Important notes:

The bleed time may take anywhere from between two minutes and (in rare cases) to a maximum of 30 minutes. This procedure is to be performed on a level surface with the vehicle stationary, and in a properly ventilated area.

Procedure preconditions:

Engine oil level correct – neither underfilled nor overfilled

Engine running at operating temperature

Bring the engine up to an operating speed (no load) of 2000-3000 rpm and maintain this condition for three minutes (bleeding procedure).

Let the engine idle for 15-30 seconds and reevaluate whether the noise is still present or not.

Engine quiet – procedure is finished.

Engine noise is still present – repeat the procedure; perform steps #1 and #2 up to a maximum of 5 times.

Only if the noise remains after performing the bleeding procedure 5 times: proceed by performing the procedure for a final time, also at an engine operating speed of 2000-3000 rpm, but for a total time duration of 15 minutes.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
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      10-21-2009, 06:16 AM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyD52 View Post
The ticking noise is a known problem with the N52 (3.0L) engine fitted to e90 series vehicle. I have the problem with my 3 series wagon which now has 68K miles. I only get the problem if I travel short journey's, most of my driving is 30 mile min. so I don't here the noise very often. The real fix is to change the cylinder head, my dealer said because I reported it during the warranty period they would repair it if the SB fix does not work, so far it does.

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI 11 09 07 dated April 2008.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
Intermittent Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA): "Ticking" or "Rattling" Noises


MODEL
All E82, E83, E85, E86, E88, E60, E61, E70, E90, E91, E92, and E93 with the N51, N52 or N52K engines


SITUATION
An occasional ticking or rattling noise from the HVA elements may occur during cold engine starts or frequent short-distance driving.

CAUSE
In these situations, the HVA elements may not yet have been supplied with sufficient amounts of air-free oil. This condition will not cause any damage to the engine, and usually remedies itself with a longer driving distance or operating times at full operating temperature.

CORRECTION
In the event of a customer complaint, please perform the following the HVA bleeding procedure.

PROCEDURE
Important notes:

The bleed time may take anywhere from between two minutes and (in rare cases) to a maximum of 30 minutes. This procedure is to be performed on a level surface with the vehicle stationary, and in a properly ventilated area.

Procedure preconditions:

Engine oil level correct – neither underfilled nor overfilled

Engine running at operating temperature

Bring the engine up to an operating speed (no load) of 2000-3000 rpm and maintain this condition for three minutes (bleeding procedure).

Let the engine idle for 15-30 seconds and reevaluate whether the noise is still present or not.

Engine quiet – procedure is finished.

Engine noise is still present – repeat the procedure; perform steps #1 and #2 up to a maximum of 5 times.

Only if the noise remains after performing the bleeding procedure 5 times: proceed by performing the procedure for a final time, also at an engine operating speed of 2000-3000 rpm, but for a total time duration of 15 minutes.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.


Above SIB outdated - same no. but Sept. 2009 - replace HVAs on exh. valves.
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      10-21-2009, 08:00 AM   #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
IIRC the ticking which we're talking about doesn't get progressively worse. You either have it or you don't. It usually affects the E90 330/325s because of a design issue regarding the cylinder head. Basically it prevents the hydraulic lifters from staying filled with air bubble free oil. The oil drains out and when you start up the car you get a tap. We're not talking a barely audible tick, but a TAP, almost like valve tap. BMW initially said it won't affect longevity of the engine which may be true, but because it became such widespread and it's really annoying to hear on a $40k+ new car, BMW has been doing the head replacement after you go through their process (2-3 bleed procedures then request for replacement which is 99% of the time approved).

Early model 328's may be affected, but I don't know (I have the 330). I don't know if current 328's have it. Trust me, if you have it, you'll hear it loud and clear. As for the cost? Well IIRC it's about $3k from what my SA said when I had mine done, but that's dealer shop rates. Indy might be 20-30% cheaper.

IMO..at 40k miles if you haven't heard it you're in the clear (maybe work was already done).
Have you guys been hearing the noise at every cold start? I've had my car 3 months and have heard this noise three seperate times. Twice it was on my way out of work after the car had been sitting for 8 hours. It would be gone by the time I got home. After browsing through this thread, is the real problem definitely the cylinder head then? For an 06 330?

I have a CPO so I will probably wait until this happens more often before taking it in. Just doing some research!
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      10-21-2009, 10:25 PM   #1091
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HVA Noise

I noticed when I laid up my vehicle for a day or so and then travel short distance not using high revs the ticking noise comes back. After driving 30 miles at high speed the noise has gone when I idle the engine. I think it is same as the service bulletin bleeding procedure. I have also noticed it get worse as the oil gets older. I have a lot of miles on my N52 engine so I probably have more experience!
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      10-26-2009, 08:30 AM   #1092
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can i ask how loud is this ticking sound. is it very obvious? i have this ticking at startup as well.. but its not very loud. you cant hear it without concentrating or looking for it.

do i have this problm?
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      10-26-2009, 09:55 AM   #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max_asdf View Post
can i ask how loud is this ticking sound. is it very obvious? i have this ticking at startup as well.. but its not very loud. you cant hear it without concentrating or looking for it.

do i have this problm?
I would say yours is normal. Prior to the my new head being placed, mine was very loud, sounded as if the lifters wanted to go right through the top of the engine. It would turn heads in parking lots and not in a good way. At idle, you would hear about six very loud clicks per second.
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      10-28-2009, 09:34 PM   #1094
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This is my first post, but I have been searching the forum for some time now and it has been a wealth of information. This thread in particular has been of great interest to me as my car definitely has that loud ticking noise on cold starts after short trips around the neighborhood. With all the information on this thread, I thought I would have some success with my dealership (a large dealership here in AZ). Well, I was mistaken.

Brought it in the other day and explained in detail what the issue was and that I knew of the SIB that was out there. The service consultant said that they would check it out. They called me the next day and said that they ran it through a bunch of tests and could not duplicate the problem and therefore could not diagnose it. I brought up the SIB and even printed it out and brought it to them and they said there was nothing they could do, but if it happens again, to definitely give them a call and bring it in. I explained to them that it will happen again and by the time I get it to their service department, the sound will go away because it goes away after driving it for a while. I even asked if I should record it on video and bring in the video with me. I obviously was not getting anywhere with him, so I decided to take the car and leave.

I know the sound will come back. I will call them back and will bring the car back. Hopefully, they don't give me the same excuse next time. Do I just need to be persistent? Should I elevate to BMWNA?
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      10-29-2009, 07:17 AM   #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geebo View Post
This is my first post, but I have been searching the forum for some time now and it has been a wealth of information. This thread in particular has been of great interest to me as my car definitely has that loud ticking noise on cold starts after short trips around the neighborhood. With all the information on this thread, I thought I would have some success with my dealership (a large dealership here in AZ). Well, I was mistaken.

Brought it in the other day and explained in detail what the issue was and that I knew of the SIB that was out there. The service consultant said that they would check it out. They called me the next day and said that they ran it through a bunch of tests and could not duplicate the problem and therefore could not diagnose it. I brought up the SIB and even printed it out and brought it to them and they said there was nothing they could do, but if it happens again, to definitely give them a call and bring it in. I explained to them that it will happen again and by the time I get it to their service department, the sound will go away because it goes away after driving it for a while. I even asked if I should record it on video and bring in the video with me. I obviously was not getting anywhere with him, so I decided to take the car and leave.

I know the sound will come back. I will call them back and will bring the car back. Hopefully, they don't give me the same excuse next time. Do I just need to be persistent? Should I elevate to BMWNA?
Leave it overnight so they can cold start it.
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      10-29-2009, 03:00 PM   #1096
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Just wanted to add my experience to the thread. I have an 06 330i and have been experiencing the dreaded valve tap for the last 3 or 4 months. Monterey BMW started by bleeding the valve lifters. No dice. Brought it back and they opened a PUMA case, then were advised to replace the exhaust side valve lifters. The tapping was back two days after I got it back and it starts and idles rougher than before. Now I'm bringing it back again and they want to try replacing the intake side lifters before replacing the entire head assembly. This has been an enormous PIA and I hope they can get this fixed!! I think I read somwhere on here that someone still had the issue after a head replacement so I'm trying not to be too optimistic.
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      10-30-2009, 12:34 AM   #1097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ede92 View Post
Leave it overnight so they can cold start it.
I actually did... dropped it off on a Monday evening and they troubleshot it on Tuesday and could not duplicate it. I'm not surprised as it usually ticks on a cold start after several short trips (around the neighborhood). They probably started it right up on Tuesday and it ran fine.

I called another local dealership and they essentially said the same thing and said that they would have to see if the ticking exceeds a certain level before they actually do anything to it.
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      10-31-2009, 03:39 AM   #1098
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is this what you guys are referring too?

sorry, but 51 pages is a lot to read... and most of what I read was referring more to non-N54 engines...
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      11-01-2009, 01:39 AM   #1099
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Question what are the fix(es) for this ticking problem?

Hi,
After reading all the posts here, I believe my understanding about the resolution of the ticking noise is:
- file PUMA about the ticking noise and have the cylinder head replaced
- replace the HVA valves per SI B11 09 07 (new on Sept 09)

Are these two replacing different things? Or they result in the same 'cylinder head' replacement?

I'm just a bit confused about varies issues and problem. Thanks in advance.
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      11-03-2009, 11:42 AM   #1100
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Looks like this is happening to me as well, I just noticed it this morning. It got into the 30's and it was knocking for a bit.

I drove it home during lunch, it knocked as I started it, but after a few minutes it stopped.

Is it bad if I drive on this? They have me scheduled for next Tues.

Ninja edit: Oh wait! It's back! 45F.

Ninja edit2: Will I need the cylinder head replaced?

Last edited by pinchycm; 11-03-2009 at 03:53 PM.
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