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      01-19-2010, 02:31 PM   #1233
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Originally Posted by jrjinsa View Post
Seems to be. I had my head replaced at 12,000 miles. I'm at 17,000 now and it has ticked zero times. Definitely a fix that needs to be enforced.
My SA told me today that the head replacement won't help. It will come back. And now there is nothing they can do. I'm at a loss as to what to do.
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      01-19-2010, 03:28 PM   #1234
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Really. Not good news. Are there those out there with late 2009 & 2010's that have the new head design with the ticking issue?

Are there are instances that the ticking returns even after the head is replaced with the new design?

I am wondering if I should leave it alone with the new lifters or push for a new head. The engine runs great with the new lifters however it probably only has 50 miles on them since replaced.
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      01-19-2010, 03:34 PM   #1235
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Originally Posted by llryem View Post
My SA told me today that the head replacement won't help. It will come back. And now there is nothing they can do. I'm at a loss as to what to do.
When my car was brand new, it started ticking at 250 miles. That was its only "issue" from the start so I just drove it that way for a year. Dealer did the head replacement at my first oil change -- 12,000 when it was a year old. It works. Many can attest to that being the final fix. Anyone?

Point is, fight for a head replacement because it's the best likely fix. You should go to a different dealer if they're giving you a hard time. My dealer gave me no hassles at all. They did the bleed procedure first, I returned in a week when the ticking returned, and they did the head replacement no questions asked. It was there for a week.

Your issue may be different from mine but I do know this fixed my issue. Yeah, it's only been 5,000 miles since the fix but considering mine ticked with a brand new engine at 250 miles, I think I'm safe. There has been no sign of ticking, cold, hot, driven short trips, driven long trips. It's great.

I wish you the best of luck. Persist!
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      01-19-2010, 03:51 PM   #1236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrjinsa View Post
When my car was brand new, it started ticking at 250 miles. That was its only "issue" from the start so I just drove it that way for a year. Dealer did the head replacement at my first oil change -- 12,000 when it was a year old. It works. Many can attest to that being the final fix. Anyone?

Point is, fight for a head replacement because it's the best likely fix. You should go to a different dealer if they're giving you a hard time. My dealer gave me no hassles at all. They did the bleed procedure first, I returned in a week when the ticking returned, and they did the head replacement no questions asked. It was there for a week.

Your issue may be different from mine but I do know this fixed my issue. Yeah, it's only been 5,000 miles since the fix but considering mine ticked with a brand new engine at 250 miles, I think I'm safe. There has been no sign of ticking, cold, hot, driven short trips, driven long trips. It's great.

I wish you the best of luck. Persist!
Thank you and I guess i will persist since there isn't another dealership here in nashville and the closest one is an hour away. so by the time i get there, i will not be able to duplicate the noise because the engine will be warm.
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      01-19-2010, 03:59 PM   #1237
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Thanks I will push the dealer. They are actually pretty good and didn't give me any issues about replacing the lifters. Funny thing is it will tick not as loud but every time now on start-up if previous drive was short or if not let to fully warm up. Versus originally when it seemed more interment. Imagine that.
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      01-20-2010, 01:02 PM   #1238
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There is a check valve in the head that holds the oil inside. When you have the ticking issue, more then likely the check valve doesn't close all the way and the oil drains out, causing the valves to not have any lubrication available upon start and they tick and tap inside their seat. It starts of with a light tick but as time progresses the valves damage their seat, increasing the tolerances resulting in louder tapping - finally resulting in engine failure. I don't understand the "valve replacement" SB at all, especially if they put new valves on top of already damaged valve seats. No wonder this is not a fix, it's in the head! My cylinder head got replaced at 22k miles, now at 30k miles she runs smooth and without any noises. Makes sense?
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      01-20-2010, 02:37 PM   #1239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekla View Post
There is a check valve in the head that holds the oil inside. When you have the ticking issue, more then likely the check valve doesn't close all the way and the oil drains out, causing the valves to not have any lubrication available upon start and they tick and tap inside their seat. It starts of with a light tick but as time progresses the valves damage their seat, increasing the tolerances resulting in louder tapping - finally resulting in engine failure. I don't understand the "valve replacement" SB at all, especially if they put new valves on top of already damaged valve seats. No wonder this is not a fix, it's in the head! My cylinder head got replaced at 22k miles, now at 30k miles she runs smooth and without any noises. Makes sense?
Perfect sense... now how do i get them to agree to change it. They are trying to tell me it is normal.
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      01-20-2010, 04:23 PM   #1240
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I am actually having a hard time understanding the how this happens and why the short trips or short run time accentuates the issue.

Why would the oil would flow out of the head differently after a short trip versus a long trip?

For instance I can't ever remember having it tick the next morning to a week later after my 30 min commute or longer drive.

However if after a longer drive if I take a short trip to the store, pull it out to wash many times it will tick the next morning or even when I start it up to put it back in the garage after the wash an hour later. When ticking it seems to get louder as it idles down after running for 30 sec to a minute.

So...

Long Drive + Time Off = No Ticking
Long Drive + Time Off + Short Drive + Time Off = Ticking

Why???

Maybe this really is an issue with the head, on the other hand my gut is telling me that there may be something with the oil pump design. However if it was the oil pump I would suspect BMW would be redesigning / replacing $275.00 oil pumps versus tearing heads off or replacing lifters.
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      01-20-2010, 07:03 PM   #1241
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^^^ Kkowalsk, you described my issue to a tee. You are the prime candidate for a new head. That will for sure solve the problem for you. Keep bugging them!

Jay...a Happy BMW driver with a new cylinder head
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      01-20-2010, 08:02 PM   #1242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekla View Post
There is a check valve in the head that holds the oil inside. When you have the ticking issue, more then likely the check valve doesn't close all the way and the oil drains out, causing the valves to not have any lubrication available upon start and they tick and tap inside their seat. It starts of with a light tick but as time progresses the valves damage their seat, increasing the tolerances resulting in louder tapping - finally resulting in engine failure. I don't understand the "valve replacement" SB at all, especially if they put new valves on top of already damaged valve seats. No wonder this is not a fix, it's in the head! My cylinder head got replaced at 22k miles, now at 30k miles she runs smooth and without any noises. Makes sense?
Dude...your right! Thanks for your advice. The next time I go into the shop I will be sure to mention it to them. Then I have to wait to see what they tell me. Maybe I will have some luck!
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      01-21-2010, 12:40 PM   #1243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekla View Post
There is a check valve in the head that holds the oil inside. When you have the ticking issue, more then likely the check valve doesn't close all the way and the oil drains out, causing the valves to not have any lubrication available upon start and they tick and tap inside their seat. It starts of with a light tick but as time progresses the valves damage their seat, increasing the tolerances resulting in louder tapping - finally resulting in engine failure. I don't understand the "valve replacement" SB at all, especially if they put new valves on top of already damaged valve seats. No wonder this is not a fix, it's in the head! My cylinder head got replaced at 22k miles, now at 30k miles she runs smooth and without any noises. Makes sense?
Could my 2006 325xi Ticking be attributed to this valve? They keep blaming it on the 06 model year engine that is in my car and said it is the valvetronic system and the ticking is 100% normal, its not to loud and it goes with the RPMs, only when cold outside or low on oil, also I have 53K miles on it. Never been fixed or had bleed procedure done to it.

Is this normal for the 1st series of engines in the 2006 325 series?
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      01-21-2010, 04:13 PM   #1244
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So...

Long Drive + Time Off = No Ticking
Long Drive + Time Off + Short Drive + Time Off = Ticking

I'm no engine specialist, but can it be this?
When the oil is at operating temp and there is enough oil pressure, oil circulation is all around in the engine and it lubricates all parts that need it. When oil is colder it is thicker and not at operating pressure. When cold, the check valve makes sure oil stays (pressurized) in the upper part of the engine at the parts that need it and the check valve opens up when "fresh oil" has reached enough pressure to flow through the check valve, allowing full oil circulation. When you drove for a short time (Long Drive + Time Off + Short Drive + Time Off) the oil that was trapped inside the head lubricated the parts that needed it but the oil did not get "refreshed" or "topped off" by the remaining engine oil. More than likely due to some oil circulation in the head some of the oil leaked through the check valve (which is not allowing oil to flow upstream because it's not at operating temp + pressure) so now there is less oil trapped inside the head, causing ticking the next time you start it. The ticking will most likely be in the upper part of the engine where there is no longer "sufficient oil readily available" since some of the oil is replaced by air and... well air is lighter than oil... ???
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      01-22-2010, 08:48 AM   #1245
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Originally Posted by llryem View Post
Thank you and I guess i will persist since there isn't another dealership here in nashville and the closest one is an hour away. so by the time i get there, i will not be able to duplicate the noise because the engine will be warm.
Lemon law in TN?
Otherwise get it on video when it ticks, they might not take it but the courts will. There may also be contact info in the manual if you have a dispute with the dealer, call them. If the other dealer is better, drive the hour and leave the car.
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      01-22-2010, 01:26 PM   #1246
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Lemon law in TN?
Otherwise get it on video when it ticks, they might not take it but the courts will. There may also be contact info in the manual if you have a dispute with the dealer, call them. If the other dealer is better, drive the hour and leave the car.
Good point. I think that may be the answer.
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      01-22-2010, 04:22 PM   #1247
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Good point. I think that may be the answer.

As a reside of Tennessee, I recommend that you read the following information:


The Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs receives hundreds of complaints each year about defects in new cars that the dealers cannot seem to repair. In 1986, the Legislature passed a Lemon Law that is stronger and more comprehensive than the original Lemon Law passed in 1984. This Law can be found in the Tennessee Code Annotated 55-24-101.

A "Lemon" is a motor vehicle sold or leased after January 1, 1987, that has a defect or condition that substantially impairs the motor vehicle; and the manufacturer, its agent, or authorized dealer cannot repair the vehicle after three attempts or the vehicle is out of service for repairs for a cumulative total of 30 or more days during the term of protection. This Law is only applicable if the vehicle was bought new. Under the statute, the manufacturer must replace the motor vehicle or refund the purchase price (less a reasonable allowance for use).

"Substantially impair" means to render a motor vehicle unreliable or unsafe for normal operation, or to reduce its resale market value below the average resale value for comparable motor vehicles.
The term of protection is defined as one year from the date of original delivery or the term of the warranty, whichever comes first.

The Law is unclear about whether you have to have reported your problem during the "term of protection" in order to have a claim under the "Lemon Law." The Division has adopted the view that the problem essentially has to be reported within the first year or within the term of the warranty, whichever comes first.
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      01-22-2010, 04:55 PM   #1248
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The only problem with the TN lemon law being used is the ticking doesn't "substantially impair" the vehicle. You'll never see a ticking car dead on the side of the road like a car with a HPFP issue. These cars with the issue just tick but drive great.

The "reduce its resale" line, however, is definitely worth fighting. Who wants a car that ticks when there are ones out there that do not tick? Great point to raise against BMW to finally nip the issue in the bud.
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      01-22-2010, 07:45 PM   #1249
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Had my car in for a brake fluid flush and noticed ticking big time when I went to get back in, so they kept it and it's going to be getting new lifters and done on Monday.
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      01-24-2010, 07:23 PM   #1250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekla View Post
So...

Long Drive + Time Off = No Ticking
Long Drive + Time Off + Short Drive + Time Off = Ticking

I'm no engine specialist, but can it be this?
When the oil is at operating temp and there is enough oil pressure, oil circulation is all around in the engine and it lubricates all parts that need it. When oil is colder it is thicker and not at operating pressure. When cold, the check valve makes sure oil stays (pressurized) in the upper part of the engine at the parts that need it and the check valve opens up when "fresh oil" has reached enough pressure to flow through the check valve, allowing full oil circulation. When you drove for a short time (Long Drive + Time Off + Short Drive + Time Off) the oil that was trapped inside the head lubricated the parts that needed it but the oil did not get "refreshed" or "topped off" by the remaining engine oil. More than likely due to some oil circulation in the head some of the oil leaked through the check valve (which is not allowing oil to flow upstream because it's not at operating temp + pressure) so now there is less oil trapped inside the head, causing ticking the next time you start it. The ticking will most likely be in the upper part of the engine where there is no longer "sufficient oil readily available" since some of the oil is replaced by air and... well air is lighter than oil... ???

Good points. Cold oil I think produces higher oil pressures. I am trying to understand why this actually happens. I assume BMW knows the true reason since there was a redesign to the head. I thought I remember reading what the redesign entailed. Maybe someone can comment. If the issue clearly is the head design we are all wasting time getting lifters replaced.

However does anybody know what the solenoid valves do that go in the front of the head. There are apparently two valves. From RealOEM it was updated on 07/2008. Wonder if this has anything to do with it. Again if this was the issue you would think BMW would be replacing these not lifters and heads.
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      01-24-2010, 07:35 PM   #1251
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There is no redesign. E9X heads don't have check valves thats why they make noise. Drive the car and the noise goes away, let it sit it comes back
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      01-24-2010, 07:41 PM   #1252
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I thought there was a redesigned / updated head. There is a new PN listed for the current head assembly. Maybe the new assembly includes the new lifter design??
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      01-25-2010, 04:50 PM   #1253
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Got it back today. Here are the part numbers of what they replaced:

11-33-7-605-330 Hydr. Valve P BMBMSA
11-36-7-524-954 Collar Screw BMBMSA
11-12-7-581-215 Profile-Gask BM
11-12-0-409-288 Set of Alu. BM
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      01-26-2010, 11:51 AM   #1254
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Got it back today. Here are the part numbers of what they replaced:

11-33-7-605-330 Hydr. Valve P BMBMSA
11-36-7-524-954 Collar Screw BMBMSA
11-12-7-581-215 Profile-Gask BM
11-12-0-409-288 Set of Alu. BM
that's a start but the real ideal solution is to get the cylinder head replaced
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