E90Post
 


GetBMWParts
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Metallic Ticking noise coming from engine?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-26-2010, 01:02 PM   #1255
Ryan323i
Captain
 
Ryan323i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH

Posts: 811
iTrader: (0)

I will be asking to get my cylinder head replaced when I go in for a brake fluid flush on Monday. I'll let you guys know what the part numbers are.
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg/Black Leather | Steptronic | Premium Package | Cold Weather Package | iPod Interface Adapter | Clear Bra | Window Tint (35%)
Ryan323i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2010, 01:10 PM   #1256
JRJ1970
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2014 428i F32
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX

Posts: 597
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkRyan323 View Post
I'll let you guys know what the part numbers are.
If it helps, here are the part numbers for my fix - cylinder head replacement done in August of 2009
Attached Images
 
__________________
Jay (in San Antonio, TX)
2014 428i coupe, mineral gray metallic with black interior, black ash trim, luxury edition.
JRJ1970 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2010, 01:21 PM   #1257
Rekla
Hug the road... Carpe Asphalt
 
Rekla's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 ///M Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Greater Seattle area - WA

Posts: 588
iTrader: (18)

Here is my parts list as well (re-post). I don't have the old original cylinder head P/N for comparison, but note the description of the new cylinder head P/N: "Cylinder head with valve"...

(1) 11-12-7-591-617 N52 Cylinder head with valve
(1) 11-12-9-391-547 Set of Alu. screws F Cylinder
(1) 11-12-7-548-799 Bolt cylinder head
(1) 11-12-0-392-547 set of alu. screws
(3) 11-12-7-521-167 ASS-Stud Bolt
(2) 11-36-7-524-954 Collar Screw
(1) 11-12-7-555-757 Cylinder head gasket
(1) 11-12-7-548-921 Gasket set cylinder head
(1) 11-12-0-409-288 set of alu. screws
(2) 13-62-7-530-413 Torx screw
(2) 11-12-7-529-997 Torx Screw
(6) 33-32-6-768-354 Hex screw with collar
(1) 11-42-7-566-327 Set oil-filter Elem
(7) 07-51-0-017-954 Motor oil SW30
(1) 82-14-1-467-704 Antifreeze
(1) 22-11-0-392-551 Set of Alu. screws
__________________
2013 X5-35d - Platinum Grey / Oyster; Premium - Sport
2007 BMW ///M Coupe
RETIRED 2006 TiAg E90 330i - Black leather - Alu Trim - Prem - Sport - NAV - Step - CA - Heated Seats
Rekla is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #1258
Ryan323i
Captain
 
Ryan323i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH

Posts: 811
iTrader: (0)

^^^So they have to replace the oil and coolant as well with the repair?
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg/Black Leather | Steptronic | Premium Package | Cold Weather Package | iPod Interface Adapter | Clear Bra | Window Tint (35%)
Ryan323i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2010, 03:38 PM   #1259
kkowalsk
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 328i - Sport Manual
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Perrysburg, Ohio

Posts: 47
iTrader: (0)

I say we all forget asking for head replacements and DEMAND they just swap in a new N55 and trans.
kkowalsk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2010, 08:06 PM   #1260
Rekla
Hug the road... Carpe Asphalt
 
Rekla's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 ///M Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Greater Seattle area - WA

Posts: 588
iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkRyan323 View Post
^^^So they have to replace the oil and coolant as well with the repair?
Yes, before they take off the head, they have to drain both coolant and oil. There are separate oil and coolant channels inside the engine and head.
__________________
2013 X5-35d - Platinum Grey / Oyster; Premium - Sport
2007 BMW ///M Coupe
RETIRED 2006 TiAg E90 330i - Black leather - Alu Trim - Prem - Sport - NAV - Step - CA - Heated Seats
Rekla is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2010, 10:08 PM   #1261
Ryan323i
Captain
 
Ryan323i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH

Posts: 811
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekla View Post
Yes, before they take off the head, they have to drain both coolant and oil. There are separate oil and coolant channels inside the engine and head.
Nice so I'll get a coolant flush out of the deal!
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg/Black Leather | Steptronic | Premium Package | Cold Weather Package | iPod Interface Adapter | Clear Bra | Window Tint (35%)
Ryan323i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2010, 07:16 PM   #1262
bsamoul
Major General
 
bsamoul's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Walnut Creek, California

Posts: 7,424
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to bsamoul
Just curious, why would you need the whole head replaced instead of the lifters?
__________________
-Brian
2X 2006 BMW 325i [Electric Red & Mystic Blue] | ZPP | V1 | Rear Fogs | M3 Lip Spoiler | EAS RemoteKey | BMS Powerbox | Projector90 Headlights w/ LED AE | LED plate lights | OEM Blacklines
http://www.tech-shine.com
bsamoul is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2010, 08:31 PM   #1263
DESI4life10
Banned
 
DESI4life10's Avatar
 
Drives: Coding: Desi4life10@gmail.com
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: West of Toronto, Canada

Posts: 3,365
iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsamoul View Post
Just curious, why would you need the whole head replaced instead of the lifters?
Because lifters alone don't solve the problem.
DESI4life10 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2010, 09:37 PM   #1264
tahoerdr
Private
 
tahoerdr's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 335xi
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posts: 92
iTrader: (3)

This thread came out to 437 pages (219 dbl spaced)


tahoerdr is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2010, 09:50 PM   #1265
Ryan323i
Captain
 
Ryan323i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH

Posts: 811
iTrader: (0)

^^^Maybe you should have saved as a pdf?
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg/Black Leather | Steptronic | Premium Package | Cold Weather Package | iPod Interface Adapter | Clear Bra | Window Tint (35%)
Ryan323i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2010, 12:29 PM   #1266
turbotko
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 07 335I
Join Date: May 2007
Location: georgia

Posts: 476
iTrader: (3)

Wow, I haven't been on the boards for a while and find this thread. I wasn't surprised though.

To start out, the N52 engine does not have "lifters". Those belong in push-rod engines. They do have HVA's (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) and they are the cause of the ticking noise you guys are all hearing.

In the beginning of all of this, we were installing improved cylinder heads with an extra check valve installed to prevent the valve spring pressure (no matter what position the engine stops at when shut down, there is always 2 valves that are left open causing spring pressure on the HVA's) from pushing the oil out of the HVA's. This was an interim fix until the HVA's could be re-designed to prevent the bleed down. Now BMW has re-designed the HVA's to prevent the bleed down and the expensive cylinder head replacement is no longer necessary. Replacing the 12 exhaust HVA's with updated ones has fixed every car I've seen so far.

There is no long term effects from this, you could run the engine without making the repair and it would not effect it's durability at all. The noise is just a nuisance, pure and simple. Within minutes of cold start up the HVA's pump back up with oil and all is normal.

If anybody is in the mood for a quiz.........why are the intake HVA's not effected on this engine? A pat on the back for any non-BMW technician that can answer this correctly
__________________
2011 335is coupe white/red
06 kawasaki ZX6R in Kawi green
turbotko is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2010, 01:23 PM   #1267
mishenka
Private First Class
 
Drives: 328i
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: upstate NY

Posts: 161
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotko View Post
Wow, I haven't been on the boards for a while and find this thread. I wasn't surprised though.

To start out, the N52 engine does not have "lifters". Those belong in push-rod engines. They do have HVA's (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) and they are the cause of the ticking noise you guys are all hearing.

In the beginning of all of this, we were installing improved cylinder heads with an extra check valve installed to prevent the valve spring pressure (no matter what position the engine stops at when shut down, there is always 2 valves that are left open causing spring pressure on the HVA's) from pushing the oil out of the HVA's. This was an interim fix until the HVA's could be re-designed to prevent the bleed down. Now BMW has re-designed the HVA's to prevent the bleed down and the expensive cylinder head replacement is no longer necessary. Replacing the 12 exhaust HVA's with updated ones has fixed every car I've seen so far.

There is no long term effects from this, you could run the engine without making the repair and it would not effect it's durability at all. The noise is just a nuisance, pure and simple. Within minutes of cold start up the HVA's pump back up with oil and all is normal.

If anybody is in the mood for a quiz.........why are the intake HVA's not effected on this engine? A pat on the back for any non-BMW technician that can answer this correctly
I am not a technician, so I won't be able to answer the quiz question But thanks for the very detailed explanation of what is going on. I popped up somewhere in the middle of this thread when I had this issue. I had two replacements (cylinder heads) on two different cars.
You mentioned that the cylinder heads replacement was an interim solution. Does it mean that this fix is not as robust and as permanent as the re-designed HVAs?
__________________
2008 328i, Black/Black, Steptronic
mishenka is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2010, 03:10 PM   #1268
Ryan323i
Captain
 
Ryan323i's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbus, OH

Posts: 811
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotko View Post
Wow, I haven't been on the boards for a while and find this thread. I wasn't surprised though.

To start out, the N52 engine does not have "lifters". Those belong in push-rod engines. They do have HVA's (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) and they are the cause of the ticking noise you guys are all hearing.

In the beginning of all of this, we were installing improved cylinder heads with an extra check valve installed to prevent the valve spring pressure (no matter what position the engine stops at when shut down, there is always 2 valves that are left open causing spring pressure on the HVA's) from pushing the oil out of the HVA's. This was an interim fix until the HVA's could be re-designed to prevent the bleed down. Now BMW has re-designed the HVA's to prevent the bleed down and the expensive cylinder head replacement is no longer necessary. Replacing the 12 exhaust HVA's with updated ones has fixed every car I've seen so far.

There is no long term effects from this, you could run the engine without making the repair and it would not effect it's durability at all. The noise is just a nuisance, pure and simple. Within minutes of cold start up the HVA's pump back up with oil and all is normal.

If anybody is in the mood for a quiz.........why are the intake HVA's not effected on this engine? A pat on the back for any non-BMW technician that can answer this correctly
I'm pretty sure this is what my dealer did back in November and I still have the same ticking on certain cold starts. Hmmmm
__________________
2006 330i | TiAg/Black Leather | Steptronic | Premium Package | Cold Weather Package | iPod Interface Adapter | Clear Bra | Window Tint (35%)
Ryan323i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2010, 03:50 PM   #1269
davidk
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 2008 X3, 2009 128i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bothell, WA

Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Wow, I haven't been on the boards for a while and find this thread. I wasn't surprised though.

To start out, the N52 engine does not have "lifters". Those belong in push-rod engines. They do have HVA's (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) and they are the cause of the ticking noise you guys are all hearing.

In the beginning of all of this, we were installing improved cylinder heads with an extra check valve installed to prevent the valve spring pressure (no matter what position the engine stops at when shut down, there is always 2 valves that are left open causing spring pressure on the HVA's) from pushing the oil out of the HVA's. This was an interim fix until the HVA's could be re-designed to prevent the bleed down. Now BMW has re-designed the HVA's to prevent the bleed down and the expensive cylinder head replacement is no longer necessary. Replacing the 12 exhaust HVA's with updated ones has fixed every car I've seen so far.

There is no long term effects from this, you could run the engine without making the repair and it would not effect it's durability at all. The noise is just a nuisance, pure and simple. Within minutes of cold start up the HVA's pump back up with oil and all is normal.

If anybody is in the mood for a quiz.........why are the intake HVA's not effected on this engine? A pat on the back for any non-BMW technician that can answer this correctly
I disagree with this, as many prior posts in this thread will confirm. One of the first SIBs to address the ticking noise was to perform a bleeding procedure, which didn't cure any ticking noise. A revised SIB was issued to replace the exhaust HVAs. I have had this ticking on my 2008 X3 (I know it isn't an E9x, but same N52 engine) almost since new. The ticking does not stop after a few minutes warm up, it only gets louder. The ticking noise returned about a week after I had the exhaust HVAs replaced, as it has with most of the people who have had the HVAs replaced. A good run on the freeway will cure it for a while, but after a few short trips, it returns. The only repair I have read which solves the issue is a head replacement, which is currently underway on my X3, which the dealer readily agreed to do. I really doubt BMWNA would have done as many head replacements as they have unless there actually is an issue with the original N52 head. As to why the intake HVAs aren't replaced (in most cases), I have no idea, not sure it matters either way.

Last edited by davidk; 01-29-2010 at 03:58 PM.
davidk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-29-2010, 06:46 PM   #1270
kkowalsk
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E92 328i - Sport Manual
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Perrysburg, Ohio

Posts: 47
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotko View Post
Wow, I haven't been on the boards for a while and find this thread. I wasn't surprised though.

To start out, the N52 engine does not have "lifters". Those belong in push-rod engines. They do have HVA's (Hydraulic Valve Adjusters) and they are the cause of the ticking noise you guys are all hearing.

In the beginning of all of this, we were installing improved cylinder heads with an extra check valve installed to prevent the valve spring pressure (no matter what position the engine stops at when shut down, there is always 2 valves that are left open causing spring pressure on the HVA's) from pushing the oil out of the HVA's. This was an interim fix until the HVA's could be re-designed to prevent the bleed down. Now BMW has re-designed the HVA's to prevent the bleed down and the expensive cylinder head replacement is no longer necessary. Replacing the 12 exhaust HVA's with updated ones has fixed every car I've seen so far.

There is no long term effects from this, you could run the engine without making the repair and it would not effect it's durability at all. The noise is just a nuisance, pure and simple. Within minutes of cold start up the HVA's pump back up with oil and all is normal.

If anybody is in the mood for a quiz.........why are the intake HVA's not effected on this engine? A pat on the back for any non-BMW technician that can answer this correctly
First I'll take a stab at the quiz question as a non-BMW tech. The intakes are not affected because the valvetronic system on the N52 is varying the intake valve lift which controls the throttle in normal operation versus a throttle body. So essentially all the intakes valves are either closed when the engine is off or (2) intake valves are open but only slightly at the idle valve position which is the same as the off position. This fully closed or slight open condition does not cause enough force to be applied to the intake HVA's to cause them to bleed down when the engine is off. Basically when the engine is off all the intake HVA'a have minimal force on them.

So the question is why does this problem seem to be common with short driving cycles? What is the difference with long versus short trips and the ticking? Why do the HVA'a bleed down differently or are affected differently based on run time? This is puzzling me.

I have personally found that the problem is not fully resolved with the lifter replacement. Cold starts after short runs has still produced the ticking on my car. It goes away quicker but still there. In addition if what you are saying is true with the exhaust HVA's bleeding down on the ones with the open valves when the engine is off why is the ticking always seem the be coming from the back of the engine? I would have to say that the ticking goes away after maybe few minutes of regular driving but definitely not idling.

Not put you on the spot...just trying to understand why this is happening.

In addition can you tell me what the (2) solenoid valves that are on the front of the head control?

Thanks!!

Last edited by kkowalsk; 01-29-2010 at 07:38 PM.
kkowalsk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 09:30 AM   #1271
turbotko
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 07 335I
Join Date: May 2007
Location: georgia

Posts: 476
iTrader: (3)

Yey!! Great answer, since the intakes have valvetronic the intake valves are at minimum lift at idle (and at shut down) which doesn't allow any spring pressure to push the oil out of the HVA's.

My only answer to the short trip driving causing it more often is that maybe they don't get completely bled of all the air before the engine is shut back down again, causing the noise to come back immediately.

The two solenoids on the front of the engine control the oil pressure to the Vanos units mounted on the front of the camshafts. By varying the oil pressure to the Vanos units the DME can advance/retard the camshafts for variable cam timing. I'm sure you can guess, but one is for the intake cam and the other is for the exhaust cam. This system is completely seperate from Valvetronic.

Anybody up for another useless trivia question? Why do none of our engines have EGR valves on them (exluding Diesels)?
__________________
2011 335is coupe white/red
06 kawasaki ZX6R in Kawi green
turbotko is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 10:18 AM   #1272
MrDummy
→сяuisiиg iи му вмш←
 
MrDummy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Space Gray 328i
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Unemployment Capitol of America

Posts: 1,643
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 BMW 328i  [0.00]
^^^ YES Mine only ticks when cold or low on oil and the techs at my dealership BLAME it on having the original 2006 N52 VANOS or Valvetronic system and that it wont hurt anything at all, and they wont do anything to fix it because they say it is NORMAL.

Is this true or BS?

I have a 2006 325XI THANKS
__________________
SuPerMoD @ MassMonsterz.com
A "Happy" Owner of a Metallic Space Gray 2010 BMW 328i
ProGaMeR on the XboX 360
MrDummy is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 11:15 AM   #1273
kwmarc
New Member
 
Drives: 2010 BMW 335i
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Columbia, MD

Posts: 6
iTrader: (0)

HVA fix

I have a 2006 330xi and had the "lifter tick" issue. I took it into the dealership to have it fixed and they performed the HVA replacement and the noise has not come back. I have a 2006 330xi w/ 52K miles on it.

-Kyle
kwmarc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 02:08 PM   #1274
turbotko
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 07 335I
Join Date: May 2007
Location: georgia

Posts: 476
iTrader: (3)

Well, the updated HVA's are "supposed" to be the fix making replacing the expensive (to BMW) cylinder heads on these cars not necessary. There may be a few cars out there that still tick after the exhaust HVA's are replaced, I've not seen any so far and have probably done 40 sets of them since we quit replacing heads and started replacing HVA's instead.

I will say again though, the noise is more of a nuisance than anything. It's not going to cause any permanent or long term damage. It's just a matter of getting the HVA's bled out, which normally happens almost immediately on start up unless it's really cold.

The orifices in these HVA's for oil to flow through are very very small. On a cold start the engine oil is cold and thick which makes it take longer to get that thick oil into those tiny orifices in the HVA's. If anybody has ever takin one of these HVA's out and tried to compress them to push the oil out you will understand. Normally it takes a putting it in a bench vice and squeezing the holy crap out of it to get them to compress the oil out.

On a side note, you guys oughta hear these engines the first time you fire them up after replacing the HVA's. They tick so back you'd think it was coming apart!!
__________________
2011 335is coupe white/red
06 kawasaki ZX6R in Kawi green
turbotko is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 02:25 PM   #1275
chrisinvermont
New Member
 
Drives: 330xi
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burlington, VT

Posts: 8
iTrader: (0)

On our 2006 330xi with 28,000 miles the ticking was really bad. We have the lifters done in November and that cleared it up for a couple of weeks, then it was back. A couple of times it was worse/louder than it had been before. I went back and they heard the ticking. They opened a claim with the national techs and got permission to replace the head. That was done last week and so far so good. Of course the lifters were good for a couple of weeks.

For those that think they have this issue our car did it on a regular basis. It is quite noticable. As my wife said, if I wanted a car that sounded like this I would have got a Hyundai! It happened in cold weather and in the summer. It was not every time we started the car, but both times we had it in the shop it made the noise for the tech. It took some work with the dealer to get them to do the work. We were told it is normal and not to worry about it, they bled the system but the problem was still there. I did get results when I mentioned the service bulletin posted here. After the lifters the service advisor wasn't sure what to do but I asked if they could escalate the issue and he spoke with a tech who knew exactly what to do.

Fingers crossed that the head does the trick!
chrisinvermont is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 09:18 PM   #1276
TyPe-ZeRo
Prone to sudden bursts of acceleration
 
TyPe-ZeRo's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 Black 325i Sport/Premium
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 244
iTrader: (0)

Is there a video of this ticking noise?
TyPe-ZeRo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST