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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > Regional Forums > UK > UK Technical Forum > edit... Done today.........Remap: Evolutionchips or Bluefin



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      05-15-2014, 03:17 AM   #1
sparkymarky
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edit... Done today.........Remap: Evolutionchips or Bluefin

These are the only two people near me way down here in cornwall (apart from celtic tuning who have very mixed reports and so i'm avoiding).

I can only find two posts on evolutionchips- seems to be a guy called stu from the cossie world who writes their map.



Which should i go for? Price is roughly the same:

evolutionchips= 299 inc vat or 347 with before and after power runs (275bhp and 585NM) or
bluefin = 275 inc vat for the bluefin (279bhp and 590NM) (using an ebay bought
device and paying superchips for the reset/new
map load)



Tempted by evolution... power figures quoted are realistically the same

http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Car_...ing_Search.asp
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      05-15-2014, 05:16 AM   #2
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Superchips were in allot of trouble not long ago for faking power figures and running cars too lean etc. I would steer clear of superchips.
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      05-15-2014, 06:01 AM   #3
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Interesting.....
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      05-15-2014, 06:25 AM   #4
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We've seen a couple of Bluefin equipped cars when you look into it they aren't that hot, you'll find bespoke re maps tailored to suit car/customers requirements loaded on to the ECU like we do offer more though of course you can't take them off or switch between on and the other
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      05-15-2014, 06:48 AM   #5
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Ah ok steve..in what way weren't they hot? Which parameters in particular?
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      05-15-2014, 07:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkymarky View Post
Ah ok steve..in what way weren't they hot? Which parameters in particular?
We've had a couple of cars come our way equipped with the Bluefin unit sure its better than stock, but compared with a decent re map say from E maps, DMS and even ourselves the figures (though this is always open to debate)and the performance which is what you feel via the actual drive feel different.

Therefore you can only conclude that loading a remap direct to the ECU you get better result, if you do it via the ODB its simple, where it gets interesting is taking the ECU out opening the ECU up and dialling direct in if you do this there is more scope for improvement and side by side 2 cars one mapped via ODB one mapped via opening up the ECU the ODB will give slightly less back due to the fact that the going straight in to the ECU brain give more scope and more scope = more flexibility therefore more opportunity to produce a better end result.

And Bluefin doesn't offer the above though to its credit it offers more flexibility re removal and updates.

And this info comes straight from the guy who looks after us
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      05-15-2014, 09:05 AM   #7
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I might be wrong but I don't think a remap via OBD is any different than a map being written directly to the chip.

The reason why the ECU is removed is that newer models with the tri core Bosch EDC17 or for petrol MED17 are protected via OBD access (and I'm sure these have now been superseded with far better protection). Thus the only way to load a new map is by writing it to the chip.

You could in theory write the same map via obd but the 1024bit RSA hash mismatch would flag up and the vehicle would not start.

What I'm trying to get at is, I do not believe that the different way the map is written to the ECU affects the outcome / quality of the map.

The quality of the map design is what counts

You get what you pay for. Bluefin is a cheap 'model' specific device for flashing old security ECU's.

If you want good results you need an individual 'vehicle' specific map. One that is tested multiple times and tweaked to get the best from your car.
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      05-15-2014, 09:19 AM   #8
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I might be wrong but I don't think a remap via OBD is any different than a map being written directly to the chip.

The reason why the ECU is removed is that newer models with the tri core Bosch EDC17 or for petrol MED17 are protected via OBD access (and I'm sure these have now been superseded with far better protection). Thus the only way to load a new map is by writing it to the chip.

You could in theory write the same map via obd but the 1024bit RSA hash mismatch would flag up and the vehicle would not start.

What I'm trying to get at is, I do not believe that the different way the map is written to the ECU affects the outcome / quality of the map.

The quality of the map design is what counts

You get what you pay for. Bluefin is a cheap 'model' specific device for flashing old security ECU's.

If you want good results you need an individual 'vehicle' specific map. One that is tested multiple times and tweaked to get the best from your car.
ODB and direct do give slightly different result trust me I wasn't 100% sure so I asked and was given a 5 minute education as to why, the decent people invest in the ECU cradle and all the hardware to carry out this procedure (5.5k plus trade to buy this equipment) It needs to be done in a controlled clean environment, it takes longer to do hence a price differential but back to back if you were to map 2 cars one ODB one direct there will be a difference 100%, but as you say its quality and ODB is great its quick effective but direct in you've got more scope more scope means more options to tailor the car and this will give a more refined result.

A well executed ODB map will be very good take it a stage further you'll get a direct program to ECU via the cradle set up(this is very precise at the moment for instance we take ours off site to do this)but trust me its worth it. But in an ideal world a car & map tailored to each other is the best way

Steve
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      05-15-2014, 10:13 AM   #9
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Steve,

I am 100% with you with regards to opening an ECU in a controlled environment etc but from what I've read and understand about remapping OBD flash and bench flash both write data to the same parts of the ecu. I haven't seen any evidence yet that bench flashing has access to more maps in the ECU.

I am happy to be proved wrong though. But until then I'm a sceptic as to the reason to remove the ECU being anything more than a method to bypass ECU security.
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      05-15-2014, 01:39 PM   #10
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Interesting posts guys.

Wish mappers they would tell you which parameters are adjusted so that you kind of know what you are getting/what is happening to your car.

The last thing i want is to be running too lean.
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      05-15-2014, 02:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Steve,

I am 100% with you with regards to opening an ECU in a controlled environment etc but from what I've read and understand about remapping OBD flash and bench flash both write data to the same parts of the ecu. I haven't seen any evidence yet that bench flashing has access to more maps in the ECU.

I am happy to be proved wrong though. But until then I'm a sceptic as to the reason to remove the ECU being anything more than a method to bypass ECU security.
I too if I'm honest was a tad sceptic so I asked and was enlightened. We mainly do ODB remaps as everything's there on the premisses and TBH the results make people smile as they get everything and more, thing is go a little deeper and dial in via the bench you do gain. ODB if you like is 90+ the extra comes with the little extra effort.

So I've kinda challenged myself and the guys who write for us. My car will once I've finished modding pay them a visit there before them will be a damn decent re map provided by Emaps and I tell you its damn good as good as Simon could make it an he's no fool trust me the challenge will be to improve upon it.. and I've been told go beyond the limits of the ODB(whatever they are)there's more up tapped potential... if it works well I'll pay if it doesn't my old map returns.. all for the future as today I'm perfectly satisfied with the excellent job done by Simon(taken in to a account my Catless pipes and adjusted the map to suit)
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      05-16-2014, 08:10 AM   #12
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Thanks for your input guys.

Just booked into Richard Brothers in Cornwall to have the evolution remap carried out (via OBD) on tuesday morning - a well known local tuner having done some extreme and varied/random one off cars.

Cornwall is very limited but I know of a few people who have had engine builds /work &/or major tuning work carried out there fine.

(I know this isn't their map but happy in that they are not just a fly by night mapper)
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Last edited by sparkymarky; 05-16-2014 at 01:41 PM.
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      05-20-2014, 07:11 AM   #13
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Three hours later with a before and after rolling road.

280bhp and 593nm torque. Happy. Throttle response is so much better now; instantaneous power
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      05-20-2014, 07:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Three hours later with a before and after rolling road.

280bhp and 593nm torque. Happy. Throttle response is so much better now; instantaneous power
Sorry if I missed something but what kind of car is this on, and what mods? If any
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      05-20-2014, 07:42 AM   #15
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Sorry, e90 330d m sport manual. No mods as far as I know. I know there are more aggressive maps out there in terms of bhp (evolve etc) but im happy to play it safer with no smoke. And at 299 all in I'm very happy.
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      05-20-2014, 10:21 AM   #16
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Oh okay, I saw those tq numbers and figured you couldn't be running petol, ha!
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      05-20-2014, 12:18 PM   #17
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What year is your e90?
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      05-20-2014, 01:37 PM   #18
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What year is your e90?
2006
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      05-21-2014, 01:29 PM   #19
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Hi fella. Sounds like an awesome upgrade. Would be interested know what sort of differences in mpg you notice.
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      05-21-2014, 02:17 PM   #20
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Reset mpg at work and feathered it home just now; 20 miles total which has a fair few very steep hills.
Average read 50.4 mpg when it got home.
This is around the same as before the remap when i feathered it iirc. And i mean feathering it! I expect people will comment here that, due to the remap, this figure will be incorrect. I have not looked into this yet but as the calculations are done off throttle position (as far as i know) rather than some sort of predetermined figure then it may still be accurate. Will research into this.

My unfeathered average pre remap was always a consistent 40.3 mpg so i'll reset it again tomorrow and just drive normally for a few weeks and report back- it will be the usual 80/20 ratio of driving sensibly to getting a shifty on.
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      05-21-2014, 02:41 PM   #21
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Nice one fella that sounds about exactly the same as me so that currently so will be interesting to see. I have a 2007 330d e91, those figures are very tempting though!!!
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