E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Air Filter Dyno Testing - Round 2 - K&N vs Helene vs ITG vs BMC vs BMS vs Stock



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-28-2008, 01:03 PM   #23
Winston Wolf
Tax Paying, Gun Toting American Veteran
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 248
iTrader: (1)

[quote=sambonator;2567697]Why are power levels so low? I just saw the graphs and concluded it was stock. 272whp...

[quote]

They are that low because a stock 335xi puts out 250 HP at the wheels on a Mustang Dyno. I know that to be a fact as I've done it. I would say it looks spot on for a JB2 and no cats.
__________________
I'm Winston Wolf, I solve problems...

Last edited by Winston Wolf; 04-28-2008 at 01:15 PM. Reason: sp
Winston Wolf is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 01:11 PM   #24
Scott B
Private First Class
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NorCal

Posts: 174
iTrader: (1)

Just to clear a few things up...

1.) Yes, the entire test was performed using SoCal ARCO 91 octane.

2.) Power levels are what they are on this gas, on this car, and on this dyno. The important information to gather is the difference between the curves since all of the tests were done on the same day, back to back.

3.) Under these conditions, with significantly high ambient temperatures, none of the filters outperformed the stock filter. Anyone who gathers that one filter or another performed better than the stock filter by looking at these results is mistaken, in my view.

4.) Four runs were done per filter. This allows for proper adaptation for these filters, if any is taking place at all. Three runs were done per filter on Round 1, and the last run was the best for each filter. During this test, the first run was nearly always the best. This fact is related to the ambient temperature difference between Round 1 and Round 2, in my opinion. Tighter control of the testing procedure, with regard to the oil temperature starting method, was also introduced in Round 2.
Scott B is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 02:07 PM   #25
jcarlucci1
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Jet Black 335i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa

Posts: 1,638
iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fedinand View Post
Looked like the BMC performed the best to me....
Bmc performed the worst..look at the 3 bmc runs(dotted line) all three runs were quite a bit below stock, then look at the bms runs, you see an improvement over much of the power band, although not necessarily peak hp, ..that being said, I do not understand how a higher flow drop in can possibly lose so much power compared to the stock filter..
jcarlucci1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 02:15 PM   #26
stressdoc
Moderator
 
stressdoc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 E90 ZSP+
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

Posts: 9,830
iTrader: (0)

Nice test!!!

My bet is that a clean new filter will outperform a dirty one. And to take advantage of increased air flow provided by different filters/intake arrangements, you need a specific tune and other adjustments. The OEM filter works as well as anything on a more or less stock car. With a radical tune, catless DPs, & free flow exhaust, the OEM intake may become a bottleneck.
__________________
My not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829
Quaife, BMW Perf & M3 suspension, V5, M-sport, ...
Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
stressdoc is offline   Dominica
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 02:22 PM   #27
Dan335i
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Dan335i's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i coupe 6MT,w/sp. pack.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: orange county NY

Posts: 1,788
iTrader: (2)

I can see this thread going about 100 pages long.
Dan335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 02:25 PM   #28
stressdoc
Moderator
 
stressdoc's Avatar
 
Drives: 335 E90 ZSP+
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

Posts: 9,830
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan335i View Post
I can see this thread going about 100 pages long.
It's got data!!!!
__________________
My not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829
Quaife, BMW Perf & M3 suspension, V5, M-sport, ...
Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
stressdoc is offline   Dominica
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 02:27 PM   #29
radgator1
Lieutenant Colonel
 
radgator1's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,604
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [0.00]
2007 e90 335i  [0.00]
Excellent testing (better than the first round) and interesting results. At least the BMS sounds good and has shown good results in the real world (track). With more boost BMS or Dual cones will start to show better results compared to any of the drop ins IMHO.

BTW, I wouldn't put ARCO gas in my car but thats my own personal bias
radgator1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 02:30 PM   #30
Scott B
Private First Class
 
Drives: 1M
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NorCal

Posts: 174
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by radgator1 View Post
BTW, I wouldn't put ARCO gas in my car but thats my own personal bias
I don't normally use ARCO either. The car normally gets 91 from the 76 Station. However, I was low on gas just before the testing was to start and needed to fill up at a place nearby, so ARCO it was.
Scott B is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 03:11 PM   #31
tomtom
Captain
 
tomtom's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ontario

Posts: 986
iTrader: (4)

This is on a stock car....I wonder how the filters would compare on a tuned car.
tomtom is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 03:27 PM   #32
Winston Wolf
Tax Paying, Gun Toting American Veteran
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Drives: 335xi
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 248
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom View Post
This is on a stock car....I wonder how the filters would compare on a tuned car.
JB2=stock?????
__________________
I'm Winston Wolf, I solve problems...
Winston Wolf is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 03:29 PM   #33
l4wr3nc3
The Law.
 
l4wr3nc3's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Rowland Heights, CA

Posts: 14,277
iTrader: (17)

Send a message via AIM to l4wr3nc3
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom View Post
This is on a stock car....I wonder how the filters would compare on a tuned car.
read much?
Quote:
Test Vehicle: 2008 335xi E92 6AT with JB2 and no secondary cats
__________________

2008 Lotus Exige S240 | 2007 BMW 335i
l4wr3nc3 is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 03:34 PM   #34
ulises 335i
these cars waste alot of fucking gas
 
ulises 335i's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i montego blue
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: el monte, c.a.

Posts: 992
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott B View Post
I don't normally use ARCO either. The car normally gets 91 from the 76 Station. However, I was low on gas just before the testing was to start and needed to fill up at a place nearby, so ARCO it was.
When im too low on gas to the point where it says like 5 miles to go and theres only shitty stations around , i only buy 1 gallon of gas till i see a shell of chevron and then i fill it up.
__________________
e90 335i sport- (with following mods) sstt, afe intake, custom zoomers exhaust , dimisa 4" tips, m6 reps , painted oem front splitter, carbon fiber grill.
ulises 335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 03:51 PM   #35
E82tt6
Colonel
 
E82tt6's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 Black Saphire Z4 MC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 2,629
iTrader: (0)

Solid line is stock, or dotted line is stock?

Interesting that the 'hot air intake' BMS setup didn't lose power, even with 90+ degree ambients, and the hood closed. It would have been interesting to see a pre-turbo IAT probe, to settle the "flow vs temperature" argument that's been rehashed on here 3x10^8 times. Please don't argue about it again. I'm just saying it would have been interesting to see.
E82tt6 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 04:13 PM   #36
jcarlucci1
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Jet Black 335i
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa

Posts: 1,638
iTrader: (10)

solid is stock
jcarlucci1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-28-2008, 04:42 PM   #37
Dan335i
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Dan335i's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335i coupe 6MT,w/sp. pack.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: orange county NY

Posts: 1,788
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
It's got data!!!!
I meant it in a positive.Excellent info imo,and i would love to see this type of thing going on.
Dan335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2008, 05:03 AM   #38
BlackJetE90
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: e90

Posts: 2,219
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post
Solid line is stock, or dotted line is stock?

Interesting that the 'hot air intake' BMS setup didn't lose power, even with 90+ degree ambients, and the hood closed. It would have been interesting to see a pre-turbo IAT probe, to settle the "flow vs temperature" argument that's been rehashed on here 3x10^8 times. Please don't argue about it again. I'm just saying it would have been interesting to see.
Hot Air Intake BMS setup I like that. I will never be convinced that sucking in hot air doesn't matter. Yes there is larger volume of air being sucked in, but the heat soak. Cooler denser air going into the IC can only help.
BlackJetE90 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2008, 05:21 AM   #39
BlackJetE90
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: e90

Posts: 2,219
iTrader: (0)

Anyone on here dyno the Ulimate Racing Cold Air intake? To confirm UR's claims.
BlackJetE90 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2008, 02:21 PM   #40
3thirty5
Captain
 
3thirty5's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Posts: 906
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2007 E92 335i  [0.00]
wow! i'm really suprised the Helene did so poorly! when compared to how it did in the first round of tests. Any idea why such a dramatic difference in performance from the same filter?
__________________

E92 SPACE GREY 335i Exterior/M3 Truck Spoiler/M-Sport Front Lip/Painted Side Markers/Osram 6000K HID/Cosmo Blue Halos/Cosmo Blue Foglights/19" Privat "Reserve" Wheels/Eagle F1 - 235/35/19 & 265/30/19/LED Lic. Plate Lights Interior/ACS Aluminum Pedals////M Steering Wheel/Hardwired Passport 8500 Performance/H&R Sport Springs/Modified CDV/RD Sport Quad Exhaust/Spearco I.C.
3thirty5 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2008, 02:35 PM   #41
KWA VaTech
Private First Class
 
Drives: 350Z
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: DC

Posts: 161
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by who's ur daddy? View Post
What about adaptation?

Also, perhaps the better indicator is the 1/4 track instead of a dyno with fans.

But overall, I am impressed with the effort. Kudos to you for providing impartial evidence for the N54 community.
1/4 time will tell you nothing, too much error involved. I doubt you would need a lot of adapting for such a small change.
KWA VaTech is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-03-2008, 02:53 AM   #42
mJ335
Amateur Post Whore
 
mJ335's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 E90 SparkLiN G. 335i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SocaL

Posts: 3,037
iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2007 e90 335i  [0.00]
Damn.. so I guess it was my mentality that my car felt slightly quicker in throttle response (therefore faster) with my BMS filter.. oh well.. at least the sound is lovely.
__________________
Go WiTh ThE FLoW.

|BL|RS|PIAA|CFE|CFMC|SSM|CFG|CFDP|ABG|M6|AFE|MTECH |RPI|JB+|CSLT|KWSC|
mJ335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-03-2008, 10:06 AM   #43
mjd
Private
 
mjd's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 e92 335
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago

Posts: 55
iTrader: (0)

Thanks OP... nice to see a well conducted test w/ data.
__________________
2007 E92 335 : 6MT : Black Sapphire : Saddle Brown : Gray Poplar : ZPP : ZSP : ZCW : CA : iPod/USB : Dinan Flash (Rev 1) : 35% Tint
mjd is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2008, 09:40 PM   #44
BattleWagon
 
BattleWagon's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 328i 6mt, 325iT 5mt
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal

Posts: 137
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
Nice test!!!

My bet is that a clean new filter will outperform a dirty one.
That is a good point that many do not take into consideration. Before anyone can conclude that the stock filter performs just as well as these aftermarket high-flow filters, you have to take into account the following points:

1. A clean stock filter will indeed flow well
2. A stock filter will experience exponential increases in restriction levels once it starts to load up with particulates. This happens soon as the holes are so small in paper filters.
3. Aftermarket oiled cotton media filters will experience linear increases in in restriction levels once they start to load up with particulates. Debris is entrained in the oil solution as opposed to clogging small holes.
4. Aftermarket filters (i.e. Streamline, K&N) will flow better longer then the the stock filter so diminishing gains do not happen as fast or drastically as the stock filter.
__________________
BMW strut bar /// BMW perf exhaust /// ZHP shift Knob /// MFD Scoops ///M3 floor mats (from old car LOL)
BattleWagon is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST