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      05-08-2008, 10:23 AM   #1
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Debunking Iraq Myths

1. MYTH: The American people are footing the bill for Iraq’s security and reconstruction while Iraqis sit on large windfall oil profits.

FACT: The Iraqi government is taking over the funding of reconstruction. In 2008, Iraq’s budget for large-scale reconstruction projects exceeds that proposed by the U.S. by more than 10 to 1, and the U.S. military expects that Iraq will soon cover 100 percent of such expenses.

FACT: Iraq's security ministries are now spending more on their security forces than the U.S., and Iraq’s 2008 budget provides for more than 75% of the total annual cost for Iraq’s military and police.

FACT: The government of Iraq has committed to footing approximately half the bill for the “Sons of Iraq” community watch program—which was originally 100% U.S.-funded.

FACT: Iraq’s Ambassador to the U.S., Samir Sumaida'ie, says that Iraq still has to import gasoline, and argues that “some people are going a little bit too far looking at the Iraqi surplus and the gigantic American deficit and putting two and two together … The windfall from the oil will not cover a fraction of what we need to provide clean water, electricity and the most rudimentary services for our people.”

2. MYTH: “It's no big deal” if Congress fails to pass a war supplemental bill by Memorial Day.

FACT: According to Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: “We need [the supplemental appropriations bill] very badly before the Memorial Day recess. We stop paying soldiers on the 15th of June and we have precious little flexibility with respect to that … Clearly that creates incredible constraints and difficulties for us.”

3. MYTH: The Iraqi government has not taken advantage of reduced violence by making political progress.

FACT: Since September 2007, Iraq's parliament has passed significant legislation dealing with reconciliation and nation building, including:

o A pension law

o De-Ba’athification reform

o An amnesty law

o A provincial powers law

o Changes to the design of the Iraqi flag to remove Saddam-era additions

o A 2008 budget that includes record amounts for capital and security expenditures

FACT: Recently passed legislation is already having an effect. For example, the amnesty law passed in February has already led to the release of Iraqis who were under detention for non-serious crimes.

FACT: The national government is sharing oil revenues with provinces despite the lack of a framework hydrocarbons and revenue-sharing law.

4. MYTH: The U.S. is negotiating a back-door treaty with Iraq’s government that will tie the hands of future Presidents.

FACT: The United Nations authorization under which U.S. military and civilian personnel in Iraq are legally serving will expire on December 31, 2008. U.S. and Iraqi officials are therefore seeking a “strategic framework” that would provide legal protections and establish a long-term relationship between the two countries after that date.

FACT: In 2007, Iraq’s leaders asked the U.S. to move to a more normalized bilateral relationship, instead of the special case managed by the U.N.

FACT: The framework U.S. and Iraqi officials are now discussing would in no way limit or affect the military and diplomatic options the next President will have under the U.S. Constitution.

FACT: Any strategic framework would be similar to the agreement the U.S. now has with Afghanistan and much like the conventional peacetime agreements the U.S. has with dozens of other countries.

FACT: It is unclear what would happen to more than 20,000 detainees now under U.S. custody if the U.N. authorization expired on December 31 with no strategic framework in place.

FACT: The United States does not seek and will not seek permanent bases in Iraq, and any framework would affirm this principle.

5. MYTH: Iraqis are not defending their country.

FACT: As General David Petraeus testified in April, Iraqis are increasingly in the fight, recently incurring losses three times the level of Coalition losses.

FACT: Iraqi soldiers, police, and volunteers are securing their nation in increasing numbers. According to General Petraeus, more than 540,000 individuals serve in Iraq’s Security Forces, with more than 133,000 soldiers and police added over the past 16 months.

FACT: The military reports that there are now more than 91,000 Sons of Iraq—Shia as well as Sunni—under contract to help Coalition and Iraqi Forces protect neighborhoods and secure infrastructure.

FACT: More than 21,000 Sons of Iraq have already been accepted into Police, Army, or government jobs.

6. MYTH: Current spending on the war is historically unprecedented.

FACT: Today’s U.S. defense budget accounts for just over four percent of the economy, less than the U.S. commitment at any point during the four decades of the Cold War.

FACT: During the Truman and Eisenhower Administrations, the U.S. defense budget rose as high as 13 percent of the total economy.

FACT: Even during the Reagan Administration, when the economy expanded significantly, the defense budget accounted for approximately six percent of GDP.

Source: A Soldier's Perspective
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      05-08-2008, 10:38 AM   #2
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whatever the myths, its not black and white but for one fact: it's a stupid war that should have never happpened.

PS. just read that defence budget for US these days is about 4% of GDP, while during Vietnam war it was around 9%. So still ways to go before you guys wake up and put a differnt person into office.
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      05-08-2008, 10:49 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 320what View Post
whatever the myths, its not black and white but for one fact: it's a stupid war that should have never happpened.
I would classify this as another myth.

Until the war is over it is impossible to determine in any meaningful way whether or not it was a "stupid war."

History will judge.

Quote:
PS. just read that defence budget for US these days is about 4% of GDP, while during Vietnam war it was around 9%. So still ways to go before you guys wake up and put a differnt person into office.
Huh?
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      05-08-2008, 11:09 AM   #4
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what makes those facts and myths? you dont know shit, no one knows shit, why claim to know?

how do u know, how does anyone know?
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      05-08-2008, 11:37 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
what makes those facts and myths? you dont know shit, no one knows shit, why claim to know?

how do u know, how does anyone know?
I tend to agree with this line of thought. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors and where news reporters cant/wont go? there is so much corruption in the world that it's hard to know who to believe.
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      05-08-2008, 11:39 AM   #6
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i mean just coz the OP says it's a "FACT" doesnt mean it's anywhere near being a fact. i hate misinformation like that dude. that's on top of the FACT that most people dont know shit, and most dont give a fuck either.

he's talking as if anyone knows what's going on in Iraq, he's talking as if constitution or law is respected in this country... those are myths right there
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      05-08-2008, 12:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
i mean just coz the OP says it's a "FACT" doesnt mean it's anywhere near being a fact. i hate misinformation like that dude. that's on top of the FACT that most people dont know shit, and most dont give a fuck either.

he's talking as if anyone knows what's going on in Iraq, he's talking as if constitution or law is respected in this country... those are myths right there
Thank you for your insights.

It might be more conducive to furthering the discussion if you would actually evaluate what is posted on its merits. Is there a specific fact listed that you believe is incorrect? If so, what information do you have that calls it into question?

if you believe a specific portion of the Constitution or a specific statute has been violated then it would be better if you stated them.
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      05-08-2008, 12:21 PM   #8
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no i havent read any of them. that's not my point. i stopped reading when i saw you labeled/classified things as myths and facts. it's a waste of time to read those, you dont even have sources supporting your claims they're facts
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      05-08-2008, 12:23 PM   #9
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MYTH: Iraq has WMD!

FACT: IT DOESN'T AND NEVER HAS!!!!!!!!!!
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      05-08-2008, 12:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mantis View Post
no i havent read any of them. that's not my point. i stopped reading when i saw you labeled/classified things as myths and facts. it's a waste of time to read those, you dont even have sources supporting your claims they're facts
The vast majority of the items are easily verifiable. How much money has been appropriated, what specific people testified to, when specific authorizations end, etc...

If you are not interested in broadening your understanding and are comfortable with your preconceived notions, enjoy.
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      05-08-2008, 02:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
The vast majority of the items are easily verifiable. How much money has been appropriated, what specific people testified to, when specific authorizations end, etc...

If you are not interested in broadening your understanding and are comfortable with your preconceived notions, enjoy.
BS after BS...
Propaganda "FACTS"...
Title of the source sounds like "Chinese" facts...

Anyway, as Ganeil said -- history will tell...
Unfortunately, by the time it becomes a history, there is a great chance that our kid's lives will be all fu**ed up and there will be no return... Then what?
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      05-08-2008, 03:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedbimmer View Post
Statistics are always changed to show what a person wants.
Nothing here is Fact, its just twisted information.
Simple as that.
Are you telling me that it is not a fact that the laws listed were passed by the Iraqi Parliament?

That there is not an accepted measure to determine the percentage of GDP allocated to various portions of the federal budget?

The number of casualties the Iraqi Security Forces have sustained in comparison to US casualties?

The amount of money the Iraqi Parliament has allocated to certain projects?

Come on, lets try to have a reasoned discussion (dr325i & e90im that by necessity excludes you) based on the information provided. Rejecting it out of hand is juvenile and worthless.
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      05-08-2008, 05:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Are you telling me that it is not a fact that the laws listed were passed by the Iraqi Parliament?

That there is not an accepted measure to determine the percentage of GDP allocated to various portions of the federal budget?

The number of casualties the Iraqi Security Forces have sustained in comparison to US casualties?

The amount of money the Iraqi Parliament has allocated to certain projects?

Come on, lets try to have a reasoned discussion (dr325i & e90im that by necessity excludes you) based on the information provided. Rejecting it out of hand is juvenile and worthless.
Have you ever accepted or analyzed anything that opposes your mighty opinion. No.
For you, THE FACT that almost 80% of Americans dispise Bush (a person elected by those people) is completely "worthless".

THe things you listed above have nothing to do with the USA, and with the future of the USA. I don't see how you justify this dirty war and loss if 4100 soldiers so that Iraqi Gov't could allocate money for "certain projects"

WHat you put upthere may boe the FACTS that are FAR, FAR, FAR less important that no WMD, 4100 soldiers dead, $1T gone, 250k Iraqis vanished -- ALL PURE FACTS!
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      05-08-2008, 10:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Are you telling me that it is not a fact that the laws listed were passed by the Iraqi Parliament?

That there is not an accepted measure to determine the percentage of GDP allocated to various portions of the federal budget?

The number of casualties the Iraqi Security Forces have sustained in comparison to US casualties?

The amount of money the Iraqi Parliament has allocated to certain projects?

Come on, lets try to have a reasoned discussion (dr325i & e90im that by necessity excludes you) based on the information provided. Rejecting it out of hand is juvenile and worthless.
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      05-11-2008, 01:31 AM   #15
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Those myths are as mildly pro-war as they come. I'm not sure how to respond to a grown up man proudly announcing that he didnt soil his bed last night, and this thread kind of lines up in the same category.

I'm glad there is progress in Iraq, it would be stupid to wish against that. However, all this shows is how unbelievably mismanaged this war has been from the beginning. I would have expected such results after 3 years tops, and we're at 7 already.

I'm not sure why there's such a flamewar in this thread to be honest. I think ganiel just attracts flames now, wherever he posts...Pick your battles, he didn't really post anything dramatically infuriating for such a heated response.
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      05-11-2008, 09:31 AM   #16
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Your source is not unbiased. It is a well-known long-time Pro-Republican paper written by our Government. I can't comment 100% on many of the facts except one. I have firt had knowledge that while we currently do not have plans (a contract) to build a base in Iraq there are several plans currenlty being discussed.

The problem is not the war in Iraq but rather the polictically biased decisions surrounding the war. We have people in the US who can feed themselves, afford Health Insurance, or afford housing. et, we spend billions rebuilding a Nation that was no real threat to the US and was invaded on false pretenses.

I agree we must finish what we have started. However, it was started out of Political ambition and thids country will suffer for decades! Just my opinion!
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      05-11-2008, 09:41 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by CRZ410S View Post
Your source is not unbiased. It is a well-known long-time Pro-Republican paper written by our Government. I can't comment 100% on many of the facts except one. I have firt had knowledge that while we currently do not have plans (a contract) to build a base in Iraq there are several plans currenlty being discussed.

The problem is not the war in Iraq but rather the polictically biased decisions surrounding the war. We have people in the US who can NOT feed themselves, afford Health Insurance, or afford housing. et, we spend billions rebuilding a Nation that was no real threat to the US and was invaded on false pretenses.

I agree we must finish what we have started. However, it was started out of Political ambition and thids country will suffer for decades! Just my opinion!
very nicely put -- I corrected one thing, above...

Bush gave us $150B in "stimulus" money (that majority of will go right back to his buddy's poclets) and spends more than that somewhere accross the world "building" something we don't want and even they don't want...
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      05-12-2008, 03:15 PM   #18
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I'm glad there is progress in Iraq, it would be stupid to wish against that. However, all this shows is how unbelievably mismanaged this war has been from the beginning. I would have expected such results after 3 years tops, and we're at 7 already.
The sad truth is that there are plenty of people in this country who do wish against progress in Iraq. This is evident by their complete unwillingness to acknowledge that there has been quite a bit of it. Harry Reid announcing before the surge forces were in theater that the surge was a failure is one instance where the Democrats have allowed their desire to politically harm the president to throw their lot with the enemy.

What is the basis for your belief that what is being accomplished today should have been done years ago? Is there a similar situation that you are using as a baseline?
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      05-12-2008, 06:31 PM   #19
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I'm not sure why there's such a flamewar in this thread to be honest. I think ganiel just attracts flames now, wherever he posts...Pick your battles, he didn't really post anything dramatically infuriating for such a heated response.

Because he posts facts that are tough to argue with and contradict the very stubborn beliefs of some members (2 in particular).
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      05-13-2008, 01:37 PM   #20
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Ganeil, I expect better. Spreading propaganda from some dude's blog.

I don't even agree with, nor have I heard of, most of these myths, but I admit I live under a rock.

This blogger gets his info from where? Emails?

I've read some of the other posts from this guy CJ. Little biased, don't you think?
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      05-13-2008, 01:50 PM   #21
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Ganeil, I expect better. Spreading propaganda from some dude's blog.

I don't even agree with, nor have I heard of, most of these myths, but I admit I live under a rock.

This blogger gets his info from where? Emails?

I've read some of the other posts from this guy CJ. Little biased, don't you think?
I think you be hard pressed to find anything truly objective regarding Iraq in the media.

I believe the information was the result of an administration meeting with bloggers.

Evaluate the info on the merits not on the source.
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      05-13-2008, 02:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90im View Post
MYTH: Iraq has WMD!

FACT: IT DOESN'T AND NEVER HAS!!!!!!!!!!
Never has is NOT a fact. 500lbs of yellowcake stored after the 91 invasion wasn't being used for fireworks, I promise you that. The fact they were protecting that reserve, along with various new centrifuge design and engineering documents, all found shortly after we invaded, ought to tell you that there was plenty going on with Sadaam and WMDs.

How about the 100's of chemical payload rockets found that exceeded UN mandated ranges?

How about the antigen syringes found on Sadaam's personal police specifically to counter VX nerve gas?

How about the centrifuge tubes found?

If you're gullible enough to think Sadaam didn't want to have WMDs, and wasn't conspiring to get them, you're probably not qualified to speak on the subject. Hussein was a ruthless dictator, bent on destroying anything related to the West, or more simply, anything that differed from his own goals.
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