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      05-21-2008, 02:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ksfrogman View Post
A case of bait and switch?
basically

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Originally Posted by flyer333 View Post
man i am surprised.... i order a few things from **********s and they were in great shape and the custom service was great
I had ordered twice from them in the past with no issues; however all they did was process the order and have the product drop-shipped from the manufacturer to me. Plus, I knew EXACTLY what product I would be receiving, as it was a name brand item; not some house-brand (Chinese) crap. There was another thread like this recently about **********s where someone received matte black kidney grills that looked nothing like the ones pictured on their website.
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      05-21-2008, 03:40 AM   #24
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      05-21-2008, 08:43 AM   #25
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crazy how mod bargains gets on here sooo quick when someone is looking for a set of wheels or tires..... but when we complain they are nowhere to be found o_0
Don't even get me started! This has been my complaint for a LONG time.
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      05-21-2008, 04:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by tek818 View Post
As they say, pictures are worth 1,000 words, so check out the attached images. First photo is what I thought I was ordering. The rest are of the product that I received. I have no idea how they would expect someone not to notice the fact that the frames are completely different, and the screw holes look like they were made with a steak knife.

After numerous emails with James, Mike, and Tara; I was called rude and aggressive, promised a refund by all of them, nothing happened. Very unprofessional company and the fact that they would dare tell a customer that they are too busy preparing for bimmerfest to help you, is just laughable. After three weeks, I just let American Express deal with them... 10 minutes after Amex saw these images, I was provided a full refund, and told there would be an investigation into **********s, as false advertising is a big offense to them.

to **********s
Tek818,

We apologize for the poor experience you have had. We've been serving the community for many years now and customer service is #1 objective and we do try our best to serve the community with the best products and service out there.

For the license plate you've received, there is no "bait and switch" from us. We even had these license plates at Bimmerfest, and we sold tons of them without complaints (You could have come at the show since you were local to get them exchanged or heck even here at the office). You called/e-mailed us with threats, but we didn't hang up on the phone or just blow you off. We told you that we would make sure you got what you needed, including a full refund 'we agreed to give you a full refund'--when this sort of product goes out to a customer, we make sure they get the right one in the end.

Also, you have to realize that it was not exactly the fact that we were "too busy", but that the **********s' crew members did not have access to the tools and equipment to help a customer like we would in the office. We were in a motel near the Bimmerfest location with personal laptops--the one thing we were able to do was post threads...that's it.

We were taking care of that refund and investigating your situation. To successfully give you a refund, we have to contact our distributor and let them know the problem so that they can get us the shipping label as well as fix the problem. We're glad that you got your money back, even though it was because of an unnecessary chargeback--even for the bumper plugs that you received which you didn't seem to have any complaints about. Don't make us look unethical when you didn't have the intention of sending back the bumperplugs either. And for the shipping label for return, like I said, we revolve around customer service, if you were to send the license plate to us with the money out of your pocket, we would have refunded you for the license plate and we would have reimbursed you for the shipping cost. So yes, we would like our bumperplugs back as well since we refunded you on that too.

Personally, as an E90post member who started as just a BMW Enthusiast and not a **********s employee, I didn't realize the sort of unnecessary issues that are posted here when one company can just help you out with any problems that one customer may have. Since the time I started working here to today, I came to realize there are those that can be reasonable and patient, and those, for some reason, want to ruin a company that would be happy to serve the community. Even when you sent a threatening e-mail, "Do nothing and Iíll take it up with American Express and share these photos with E90post," we were happy to give you that refund. We would have even provided you with the right license plate replacement because of the time inconvenience, but you went off and placed a chargeback anyway.


As for those that have a problem with what we're shipping out to you, for example the grills, everyone needs to understand those are OEM-look. If you want to get a wider-slat grill, you can get it elsewhere, but what we advertise on our site are the "thinner" OEM matte black grills. Again, there is no "bait and switch".

And for those that think that Vorsteiner is the best license plate out there, they have their times of sending out flawed plates as well. These are some images on one of our customers who purchased a Vorsteiner license plate from us when we use to work with Vorsteiner:
[img]http://www.**********s.com/images/Vorsteiner%20CF%20LP.JPG[/img]
^It starts folding upward, rough edges

[img]http://www.**********s.com/images/Vorsteiner%20CF%20LP%20(2).JPG[/img]
^Closer view of them with rough edges

[img]http://www.**********s.com/images/Vorsteiner%20CF%20LP%20(3).JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.**********s.com/images/Vorsteiner%20CF%20LP%20(4).JPG[/img]
[img]http://www.**********s.com/images/Vorsteiner%20CF%20LP%20(5).JPG[/img]
^Rough edges, just a CF overlay over a plastic piece

Not all distributors are perfect, and that's why we are willing to take care of everyone.

Please, if anyone has any problems with their products, just let us know. We will be glad to help you out with your situation.
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      05-21-2008, 05:40 PM   #27
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"For the license plate you've received, there is no "bait and switch" from us. We even had these license plates at Bimmerfest, and we sold tons of them without complaints (You could have come at the show since you were local to get them exchanged or heck even here at the office). You called/e-mailed us with threats, but we didn't hang up on the phone or just blow you off. We told you that we would make sure you got what you needed, including a full refund 'we agreed to give you a full refund'--when this sort of product goes out to a customer, we make sure they get the right one in the end."


Wow... Where to begin... Did you even look at the photos that I emailed you and posted? How on earth can you say there was no bait and switch? Does the frame I received look ANYTHING like the one you posted pics of or the ones on the website? Did all of the frames you sold at Bimmerfest look like the ones in my photos? I highly doubt it... Why don't you post some photos of the ones you sold at bimmerfest, rather than trying to take a swing at Vorsteiner. Your frames are straight out of China ebay items...


"Also, you have to realize that it was not exactly the fact that we were "too busy", but that the **********s' crew members did not have access to the tools and equipment to help a customer like we would in the office. We were in a motel near the Bimmerfest location with personal laptops--the one thing we were able to do was post threads...that's it."

Not my fault you guys have a poor network infrastructure. Three letters that will help you out greatly in the future... VPN

"We were taking care of that refund and investigating your situation. To successfully give you a refund, we have to contact our distributor and let them know the problem so that they can get us the shipping label as well as fix the problem. We're glad that you got your money back, even though it was because of an unnecessary chargeback--even for the bumper plugs that you received which you didn't seem to have any complaints about. Don't make us look unethical when you didn't have the intention of sending back the bumperplugs either. And for the shipping label for return, like I said, we revolve around customer service, if you were to send the license plate to us with the money out of your pocket, we would have refunded you for the license plate and we would have reimbursed you for the shipping cost. So yes, we would like our bumperplugs back as well since we refunded you on that too."

I don't want your bumper plugs and I told tara that. In order to install them, I would need to make the hole in my bumper more than double the size. These obviously weren't designed for the E92 oem plate holder. Tara's reply of "The only way the plugs are returnable is if you have the original box. They cannot be returned in any other packaging" was unacceptable to me. I'd be happy to send them and the plate back. Ordinarily I would trust that a respectable company WOULD reimburse me for return shipping, however upon receiving this pitiful product from you guys, your credibility went out the window. Someone saw this product and decided that it was fit to be sold, and shipped it to me. Frankly, it is insulting to me that you won't even acknowledge the condition of this product. Are you practicing for a career in politics?

"Personally, as an E90post member who started as just a BMW Enthusiast and not a **********s employee, I didn't realize the sort of unnecessary issues that are posted here when one company can just help you out with any problems that one customer may have. Since the time I started working here to today, I came to realize there are those that can be reasonable and patient, and those, for some reason, want to ruin a company that would be happy to serve the community. Even when you sent a threatening e-mail, "Do nothing and I’ll take it up with American Express and share these photos with E90post," we were happy to give you that refund. We would have even provided you with the right license plate replacement because of the time inconvenience, but you went off and placed a chargeback anyway."

Well you might as well have posted the rest of the email, which illustrated the first two, more preferable scenarios:

1. Issue me a full refund for the item ($36.95) + provide me with a pre-paid return shipping label to return the item to you.

2. Replace the Item with the vorsteiner cf frame that I will likely purchase from one of your competitors if you choose options 1 or 3 + provide pre-paid label to return your item.

3. Do nothing and I’ll take it up with American Express and share these photos with E90post

You say "we were happy to give you that refund", but after 3 weeks, I saw nothing, so that is when I went ahead with the dispute. As I said before, credibility out the window...




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      05-21-2008, 06:39 PM   #28
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"Wow... Where to begin... Did you even look at the photos that I emailed you and posted? How on earth can you say there was no bait and switch? Does the frame I received look ANYTHING like the one you posted pics of or the ones on the website? Did all of the frames you sold at Bimmerfest look like the ones in my photos? I highly doubt it... Why don't you post some photos of the ones you sold at bimmerfest, rather than trying to take a swing at Vorsteiner. Your frames are straight out of China ebay items..."
The reason why I posted the Vorsteiner frame was to show that even the "best" company known for their CF can send out flawed products sometimes. This applies to everyone, and I'm just telling you that this happens, and we're willing to do something about it.


"I don't want your bumper plugs and I told tara that. In order to install them, I would need to make the hole in my bumper more than double the size. These obviously weren't designed for the E92 oem plate holder. Tara's reply of "The only way the plugs are returnable is if you have the original box. They cannot be returned in any other packaging" was unacceptable to me. I'd be happy to send them and the plate back. Ordinarily I would trust that a respectable company WOULD reimburse me for return shipping, however upon receiving this pitiful product from you guys, your credibility went out the window. Someone saw this product and decided that it was fit to be sold, and shipped it to me. Frankly, it is insulting to me that you won't even acknowledge the condition of this product. Are you practicing for a career in politics?"
Okay, well first of all, we do not see what is shipped to you. These are all dropshipped, and it comes from our distributor elsewhere. Secondly, now you know that we will reimburse you, so please feel free to ship both products back to us. Thirdly, we are acknowledging the condition of the product, which is why we're offering you the refund and return, right? Thanks.


"Well you might as well have posted the rest of the email, which illustrated the first two, more preferable scenarios:

1. Issue me a full refund for the item ($36.95) + provide me with a pre-paid return shipping label to return the item to you.

2. Replace the Item with the vorsteiner cf frame that I will likely purchase from one of your competitors if you choose options 1 or 3 + provide pre-paid label to return your item.

3. Do nothing and Iíll take it up with American Express and share these photos with E90post

You say "we were happy to give you that refund", but after 3 weeks, I saw nothing, so that is when I went ahead with the dispute. As I said before, credibility out the window..."

Did you read what I wrote about the fact that we were waiting on our distributor for the shipping label? And that if you wanted, you could just ship it over to us and we would have gladly reimburse the shipping cost? We're offering you not only the first OR second option, we're offering you both the first and second option.
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      05-22-2008, 02:04 PM   #29
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Uhhh... some pretty evasive, spoon feed type writing still doesn't explain the Fubar quality of that license plate frame. Relevance of Vorsteiner....? That argument is completely irrelevant, its entirely obvious the design noted in the **********s photo is of completely different origin than that recieved by Tek. Honestly to call him out on that is an insult to intelligence. These are your products cmon. Ever hear of product quality control? Clearly Tek818 is justified in making this thread I was flabbergasted by that license plate frame that was sent, seriously wtf.

-Spencer
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      05-22-2008, 05:14 PM   #30
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Same BS from those guys. Still waiting for the center caps on the wheels I ordered back on March 26th. Must be in the mail still?? Tek818, I feel your pain bro. Sorry.
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      05-22-2008, 05:24 PM   #31
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How on earth can a company that claims "customer service is our #1 objective" have numerous complaints like this?
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      05-22-2008, 05:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im spencer View Post
Uhhh... some pretty evasive, spoon feed type writing still doesn't explain the Fubar quality of that license plate frame. Relevance of Vorsteiner....? That argument is completely irrelevant, its entirely obvious the design noted in the **********s photo is of completely different origin than that recieved by Tek. Honestly to call him out on that is an insult to intelligence. These are your products cmon. Ever hear of product quality control? Clearly Tek818 is justified in making this thread I was flabbergasted by that license plate frame that was sent, seriously wtf.

-Spencer
Spencer,

I don't think you're getting the point of the Vorsteiner images. One of our customers got a poor quality license plate frame from Vorsteiner, but that does not mean that ALL of their license plate frames are like that. It just means there was a flawed frame shipped out, and it's something we are glad to help our customers with. We are on the customer's side, so if our distributor (which means we cannot inspect any products that get shipped out by us personally) sends out a bad product, we are more than willing to make sure your refund, exchange, etc.

And I was not calling him out about the pictures. I just stated that if this is about ethics, then lets follow it--he got his money, so we expect the products back in our hands.
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      05-22-2008, 05:42 PM   #33
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James- check your email. You are going to get your products back, don't even worry about that. They have been sitting on the floor collecting dust. Stop trying to make me look like the bad one...
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      05-22-2008, 06:06 PM   #34
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Did you send the e-mail to me? I don't have anything in my inbox.
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      05-22-2008, 07:00 PM   #35
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yes, I sent it to you at 3:26pm today
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      05-22-2008, 07:18 PM   #36
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Excuses are like B'holes ... everyone has one .... but it seems that many of the vendors on here have multiple B'holes!

I stopped dealing with most vendors on here ... all they care about is cash in their pocket!
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      05-23-2008, 10:21 AM   #37
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Excuses are like B'holes ... everyone has one .... but it seems that many of the vendors on here have multiple B'holes!

I stopped dealing with most vendors on here ... all they care about is cash in their pocket!
hmmm maybe your a bad customer
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      05-23-2008, 07:29 PM   #38
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Excuses are like B'holes ... everyone has one .... but it seems that many of the vendors on here have multiple B'holes!

I stopped dealing with most vendors on here ... all they care about is cash in their pocket!
That's not true, to be honest with you. I do my best to serve the community because before I joined **********s, I was an e90post BMW Enthusiast. I know how it's like being a customer, that's why I do my best to make sure everyone else gets treated the way I would want to be as a customer .

I'm sorry you feel that all of the vendors here are in here for just the money

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hmmm maybe your a bad customer
Lets be nice now
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      05-23-2008, 08:16 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tek818 View Post
As they say, pictures are worth 1,000 words, so check out the attached images. First photo is what I thought I was ordering. The rest are of the product that I received. I have no idea how they would expect someone not to notice the fact that the frames are completely different, and the screw holes look like they were made with a steak knife.

After numerous emails with James, Mike, and Tara; I was called rude and aggressive, promised a refund by all of them, nothing happened. Very unprofessional company and the fact that they would dare tell a customer that they are too busy preparing for bimmerfest to help you, is just laughable. After three weeks, I just let American Express deal with them... 10 minutes after Amex saw these images, I was provided a full refund, and told there would be an investigation into **********s, as false advertising is a big offense to them.

to **********s
That product looks horrible. Doesn't look a thing like the advertised pic.
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      05-24-2008, 01:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammedbimmer View Post
Ive only had positive experiences with MB and it seems to me, james is admitting the sh1tty
quality of the frame and trying to make it right but keeps getting bashed??
+1. I have ordered close to $3k worth of stuff from MB and everything, including CS has been excellent.

Give James and the MB crew a chance to make it right, considering ( even if it may have taken some time) they have now acknowledged the problem.
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      05-24-2008, 01:42 PM   #41
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once again, a case of false advertising. I hope amex investigates this.
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      05-24-2008, 02:03 PM   #42
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I could understand the issue with the vorsteiner plate frames, but atleast they dont look like shit right when the customer recieves it..you would think the person that shipped out that frame looked at it and noticed how bad it looked and would of gave him a btter one..but they actually shipped it out!
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      05-24-2008, 02:09 PM   #43
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Vorsteiner must have some serious quality control issues. I wonder how many other customers have received products which were of a completely different (and poor) build quality who just haven't spoken up because they figured that's the way it's supposed to be.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of customers have high expectations and demands. That also means understanding that a distributor's quality control issues reflect poorly and negatively on your company, whether you think that's fair or not.

I'm curious to know how the issue of Vorsteiner's quality control is being addressed and handled, and what steps can be taken to insure that the issue is getting corrected (other than Vorsteiner just saying that it's fixed).
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      05-24-2008, 09:42 PM   #44
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People have to understand that most of the vendors on this forum drop ship; meaning they have no control over the quality of the product you will receive. This is why I don't order from them anymore. If there is an issue they have to contact the distro/manufacturer and you're left holding the ball. It's *always* a run around. I mean, is there any other situation any of you can think of where upon receiving an item of such obviously poor quality it should take three weeks to receive a refund? I can't.

Order direct or don't bother.
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