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      06-06-2008, 05:16 PM   #23
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I hear the US was in a recession, what happened there anyhow.
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      06-06-2008, 05:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Just pointing out that the Harper government is a more US friendly government than its predecessor.

Why exactly, should we be concerned with the world approving our election results?
What I am saying is everyone on the outside sees the problem and knows there must be a change.

It just seems that no one on the inside realizes there is a problem.

I am not sure what the future holds for the US but the US is in worse shape now than 8 years ago.

Ultimately you need to be objective and say, pass or fail?

I agree Harper is closer that Chretian but Harper would be tighter to Obama or McCain too. Chretian was not as pro US as Harper is.
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      06-06-2008, 05:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
What I am saying is everyone on the outside sees the problem and knows there must be a change.

It just seems that no one on the inside realizes there is a problem.

I am not sure what the future holds for the US but the US is in worse shape now than 8 years ago.

Ultimately you need to be objective and say, pass or fail?

I agree Harper is closer that Chretian but Harper would be tighter to Obama or McCain too. Chretian was not as pro US as Harper is.
What is the problem that everyone sees?

Change from what to what? Please be specific. What has to change, how, and whose life will be improved by the change?

Give me some examples of how the US is worse off than 8 years ago? Try to avoid worldwide phenomena like rising oil prices.
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      06-06-2008, 06:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
What is the problem that everyone sees?

Change from what to what? Please be specific. What has to change, how, and whose life will be improved by the change?

Give me some examples of how the US is worse off than 8 years ago? Try to avoid worldwide phenomena like rising oil prices.
Just looking at the US Economy

"Under the Bush Administration, real GDP has grown at an average annual rate of 2.5 percent,[56] considerably below the average for business cycles from 1949 to 2000.[57][58] The Dow Jones Industrial Average has grown by about 30 percent since January 2001.[59] Unemployment originally rose from 4.2 percent in January 2001 to 6.3 percent in June 2003, but subsequently dropped to 4.5 percent in July 2007.[60] Inflation-adjusted median household income has been flat while the nation's poverty rate has increased.[61] By August 2007, the national debt had risen to US$8.98 trillion dollars, a change from an US$86 billion surplus in 2000.[62]"

From Wiki, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
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      06-06-2008, 06:11 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
Just looking at the US Economy

"Under the Bush Administration, real GDP has grown at an average annual rate of 2.5 percent,[56] considerably below the average for business cycles from 1949 to 2000.[57][58] The Dow Jones Industrial Average has grown by about 30 percent since January 2001.[59] Unemployment originally rose from 4.2 percent in January 2001 to 6.3 percent in June 2003, but subsequently dropped to 4.5 percent in July 2007.[60] Inflation-adjusted median household income has been flat while the nation's poverty rate has increased.[61] By August 2007, the national debt had risen to US$8.98 trillion dollars, a change from an US$86 billion surplus in 2000.[62]"

From Wiki, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
THe economy NOW is least affected by last 8 years of tyrany.
But it is coming -- I am daily receiving notices from water delivery guys, pool service, lawn service, etc that they are all forced to increase premiums everywhere from 15 to 25%. This is just because the gas fiasco, what will happen when we really hit recession, we'll see... And then when the real effects of 8 years of wasting hit us...

There are many, many, many other things that need to be changed from the coarse set within last 8 years -- actually, everything should change.
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      06-06-2008, 06:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
Just looking at the US Economy
I would caution anyone against relying on wiki for this type of information, especially if you do not look at the underlying references.

I am not one who believes that a President has much influence on the overall health of the US economy but the data you rely on is inaccurate, incomplete, or outdated. Most of the data from the article you cite comes from 2005.

The rise in the US poverty rate is almost exclusively the result of immigration into this country. The unemployment rate has been at historically low levels for the entirety of the current administration.

I assure you the US national debt was not a negative number in 2000.
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      06-06-2008, 07:56 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I would caution anyone against relying on wiki for this type of information, especially if you do not look at the underlying references.

I am not one who believes that a President has much influence on the overall health of the US economy but the data you rely on is inaccurate, incomplete, or outdated. Most of the data from the article you cite comes from 2005.

The rise in the US poverty rate is almost exclusively the result of immigration into this country. The unemployment rate has been at historically low levels for the entirety of the current administration.

I assure you the US national debt was not a negative number in 2000.
The polpulation of the US is what, 250 million. How many of those are legal vs illegall immigrants? The illegal immigrants would not even be taken into account in any data. No one know how many illegals are in the US working for min wage or less.

I will agree that statistics can be twisted to say anything.

I will leave you with this, are you better off now than you were 8 years ago? Are your children better off today and is their future better off now than 8 years ago.

I wish all Americans well but the days of the US as a world super power and an ecomomic super power are gone. The US debt payments will overwhelm the economy and this recession that is coming will be here to stay. $150/bbl will destroy the airlines and will play a role in inflation that will affect all of us. Canada too. Things are not getting back to the late '90's ever again.

We are living in very changing times, perhaps the US will change to adjust, I know the people can, I am not sure about the leaders.
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      06-06-2008, 08:23 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by sparkyg View Post
The polpulation of the US is what, 250 million. How many of those are legal vs illegall immigrants? The illegal immigrants would not even be taken into account in any data. No one know how many illegals are in the US working for min wage or less.

I will agree that statistics can be twisted to say anything.

I will leave you with this, are you better off now than you were 8 years ago? Are your children better off today and is their future better off now than 8 years ago.

I wish all Americans well but the days of the US as a world super power and an ecomomic super power are gone. The US debt payments will overwhelm the economy and this recession that is coming will be here to stay. $150/bbl will destroy the airlines and will play a role in inflation that will affect all of us. Canada too. Things are not getting back to the late '90's ever again.

We are living in very changing times, perhaps the US will change to adjust, I know the people can, I am not sure about the leaders.
Immigrants, legal and illegal, would be taken into account in the statistic you cited. I would refer you to this article for an analysis of immigration's effect on poverty.

I'm sorry to hear that you believe the days of American power are at an end. Fortunately that has been forecast for decades and yet it has yet come to pass.

I am most definitely better off today than I was 8 years ago. My family is safer today than it was when al Qaeda had cells in the country planning to fly airplanes into the buildings my sister and brother in law worked in as well as many of my friends. I am safer today that terrorist no longer have safe haven in either Afghanistan or Iraq. I am better off that more of the money I earn stays in my pocket rather than going to the government.
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      06-06-2008, 08:25 PM   #31
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Obama is a flip-flopper. He doesn't know what he is doing. One day, he hates Israel, the next day, he loves it...once he realizes he must obtain this thing called the Jewish vote.
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      06-06-2008, 10:10 PM   #32
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Obama is a flip-flopper. He doesn't know what he is doing. One day, he hates Israel, the next day, he loves it...once he realizes he must obtain this thing called the Jewish vote.
THat shit is not going to work this time...
Fool me once...
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      06-06-2008, 10:17 PM   #33
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I am most definitely better off today than I was 8 years ago. .
Because you profit from the war in Iraq. I am sure W's and Chaney's and other crook's situation is way better today than in 1999...

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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
My family is safer today than it was when al Qaeda had cells in the country planning to fly airplanes into the buildings my sister and brother in law worked in as well as many of my friends. .
Why are you safer today? Because we have not had an attack since 9/11??? You know, we've had many more years free of attack before that... Was terrorism born on 9/11? Hell no.
One thing for sure -- W had the info that the attack was imminent -- he ignored it. What's he ignoring these days???

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Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I am safer today that terrorist no longer have safe haven in either Afghanistan or Iraq. .
Not true -- there is MUCH more terrorists in Iraq today than in 2002. THere were almost none in Iraq then. We invited them in.
As for Afghanistan -- today, Taliban controls more territory than 4 years ago -- what will happen tomorrow, we'll see...



Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
I am better off that more of the money I earn stays in my pocket rather than going to the government.
THat is great for you. Majority of Americans are making less today than a year or two ago with the price increases (food + energy) vs. the salary increases... Since you're such a hero and patriot, maybe you should look out for your countryman a bit more and look at the overall picture, not only I, I, I...

I am sure that those 30,000 wounded veterans from Iraq are NOT better off today than 6 years ago...
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      06-07-2008, 03:44 AM   #34
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wow, its such a bad failure that i just bought my first 335i coupe. wow, life sucks!

I just bought mine too...The Republicans suck sooo baddd!!!
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      06-07-2008, 07:23 AM   #35
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I just bought mine too...The Republicans suck sooo baddd!!!
Millions that bought their homes under Republican regime thought the same... Now, we're in the state of highest foreclosures in the history... Just wait till shit hits the fan...

For example:
"The unemployment rate shot up to 5.5% in May from 5.0% in April, the government reported, marking the biggest one-month surge in over 20 years. The report was a clear indication that the economy could be in a recession after all, despite some recent bets that one could be narrowly avoided."

"Stocks could be vulnerable to further declines in the week ahead, after the S&P 500 closed below a key technical level that has previously given a floor to the selling. "

"The dollar continued its slide versus the euro on the weak jobs report and comments Thursday that the European Central Bank could potentially raise interest rates. The dollar also tanked versus the yen."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/mark...ion=2008060621

WHy don't you go buy more things?
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      06-07-2008, 04:32 PM   #36
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      06-07-2008, 05:07 PM   #37
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...
I already had that one over here, but without color. Do you have more of the black and whites that I posted there in color as well? I should upgrade them.
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      06-07-2008, 09:03 PM   #38
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I already had that one over here, but without color. Do you have more of the black and whites that I posted there in color as well? I should upgrade them.
You have to do a screen capture on msnbc
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      06-08-2008, 12:27 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Millions that bought their homes under Republican regime thought the same... Now, we're in the state of highest foreclosures in the history... Just wait till shit hits the fan...

For example:
"The unemployment rate shot up to 5.5% in May from 5.0% in April, the government reported, marking the biggest one-month surge in over 20 years. The report was a clear indication that the economy could be in a recession after all, despite some recent bets that one could be narrowly avoided."

"Stocks could be vulnerable to further declines in the week ahead, after the S&P 500 closed below a key technical level that has previously given a floor to the selling. "

"The dollar continued its slide versus the euro on the weak jobs report and comments Thursday that the European Central Bank could potentially raise interest rates. The dollar also tanked versus the yen."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/mark...ion=2008060621

WHy don't you go buy more things?
already did..time to get greedy. very simplistic concept that most people don't get.

"Get greedy when other are fearful", Warren Buffet
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      06-08-2008, 12:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Millions that bought their homes under Republican regime thought the same... Now, we're in the state of highest foreclosures in the history... Just wait till shit hits the fan...

For example:
"The unemployment rate shot up to 5.5% in May from 5.0% in April, the government reported, marking the biggest one-month surge in over 20 years. The report was a clear indication that the economy could be in a recession after all, despite some recent bets that one could be narrowly avoided."

"Stocks could be vulnerable to further declines in the week ahead, after the S&P 500 closed below a key technical level that has previously given a floor to the selling. "

"The dollar continued its slide versus the euro on the weak jobs report and comments Thursday that the European Central Bank could potentially raise interest rates. The dollar also tanked versus the yen."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/mark...ion=2008060621

WHy don't you go buy more things?
haha, how many jobs were created over the last few years due to the housing boom? some of my friends without a college degree were making more than 150k a year selling real estate. they look really pretty now!
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      06-08-2008, 12:29 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
Millions that bought their homes under Republican regime thought the same... Now, we're in the state of highest foreclosures in the history... Just wait till shit hits the fan...

For example:
"The unemployment rate shot up to 5.5% in May from 5.0% in April, the government reported, marking the biggest one-month surge in over 20 years. The report was a clear indication that the economy could be in a recession after all, despite some recent bets that one could be narrowly avoided."

"Stocks could be vulnerable to further declines in the week ahead, after the S&P 500 closed below a key technical level that has previously given a floor to the selling. "

"The dollar continued its slide versus the euro on the weak jobs report and comments Thursday that the European Central Bank could potentially raise interest rates. The dollar also tanked versus the yen."

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/06/mark...ion=2008060621

WHy don't you go buy more things?

Do you not understand economic cycles? Think before you open your mouth. Recessions happen and they come and go!
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      06-08-2008, 01:21 AM   #42
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Recessions don't just "happen", just like pregancies don't just "happen" - there are always causes to any fluctuation in the economy. There are causes that can be affected, and those that "just happen" - like a deadly epidemic wiping out your workforce, or a natural disaster that hits your industrial base. Things like an incompetent head of your government don't just happen, they happen because of dimwits like yourself.
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      06-08-2008, 01:56 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
What is the problem that everyone sees?

Change from what to what? Please be specific. What has to change, how, and whose life will be improved by the change?

Give me some examples of how the US is worse off than 8 years ago? Try to avoid worldwide phenomena like rising oil prices.
Are you serious?

How about the sub prime housing mess? The stuff we own is losing value and the stuff we buy is increasing in price. That is a serious problem. The value of our currency is falling largely due to ridiculous government spending and a war the was started for no reason. Iraq didn't attack us!! The hijackers were largely from Saudi Arabia and the attack was planned with the help of Afghanistan and Bin Laden. Why are we in Iraq? Oh yeah, the WMDs. My bad. I feel so much safer now that we are over there considering they never attacked us. We need to bring the troops home! Iraqies don't want us there.



Worldwide gas prices are valued in American dollars. The supply and demand actually have little to do with the rise in gas prices. The real root of the problem is inflation. Our economic policies, the cost of the war, and our rampant spending have forced use to borrow money from Asia and literally print money to support our worldwide empire. This increase in the money supply results in inflation and rising prices across the board. Our standard of living will continue to decrease as a nation if our spending and borrowing continue. This might not affect everyone, but low/mid income people and families will certainly continue to feel the affects.

Here is the change I want.

1. Policies that are based on the Constitution.
2. Complete change in our foreign policy.
3. Bring home troops from around the world, not just Iraq. We are going bankrupt being the world's police.
4. Cut government spending drastically.
5. Restore personal liberties that have been stripped due to the threat of terrorism. Terrorists are actually winning right now as more and more of our liberties are taken from us due to this "threat."
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      06-08-2008, 02:12 AM   #44
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Add an increase in unemployment as well. Forgot that one.
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