[kwakr738]

So I was reading a post on DTC vs DSC. Basically DTC polices power a little less than DSC, and allows slightly more slip. I decided drive to work with DTC off today. It almost feels like a different car! I was not driving aggressively at all, but it actually enhances the sensation of power. During short bursts of acceleration around NYC, I could actually feel the FWD kick in as the RWD began to slip.

I also notice around bends the car seems a bit more composed. I believe with DSC on, the ECU applies brakes to single wheels, and decreases engine output when accelerating through turns. This leads to minor changes in weight distribution and unexpected loss of power. I always wondered why the car felt strange through some on/off ramp sweepers. With DSC off, my brain was receiving what was expected of the car. I actually felt a bit more confident accelerating through turns.

I am going to continue driving with DSC off for the meantime. Again this may be all in my head, but driving with DTC just feels better overall. I was wondering if anybody else has had experience with this in their XI.

[choopy]

me!! I always drive with it off

[kwakr738]

Yeah I need more seat time with just DTC. Do you turn of DTC too?

[magid]

Originally Posted by kwakr738

Yeah I need more seat time with just DTC. Do you turn of DTC too?

You have to hold the button for 3 seconds.

[LACA335i]

Originally Posted by kwakr738

So I was reading a post on DTC vs DSC. Basically DTC polices power a little less than DSC, and allows slightly more slip. I decided drive to work with DTC off today. It almost feels like a different car! I was not driving aggressively at all, but it actually enhances the sensation of power. During short bursts of acceleration around NYC, I could actually feel the FWD kick in as the RWD began to slip.

I also notice around bends the car seems a bit more composed. I believe with DSC on, the ECU applies brakes to single wheels, and decreases engine output when accelerating through turns. This leads to minor changes in weight distribution and unexpected loss of power. I always wondered why the car felt strange through some on/off ramp sweepers. With DSC off, my brain was receiving what was expected of the car. I actually felt a bit more confident accelerating through turns.

I am going to continue driving with DSC off for the meantime. Again this may be all in my head, but driving with DTC just feels better overall. I was wondering if anybody else has had experience with this in their XI.

buddy.. you got the dtc and dsc all wrong... DTC button is for Driving traction control. DSC cant be disable on your car. DSC = driving Stablity Control. However you can disable DTC by holding for 3 sec... The DSC still have control at least 20% on your car. If you like it or not...

[longodj]

I don't like driving with DTC AT ALL....with DSC if you are understeering it stops you by slowing down. With DTC it shifts power WHICH if you try to correct spins you around in all sorts of weird directions as it did at my last autocross. I don't really know the reasoning but the one run I did with DTC and no DSC sent me pushing around every corner and then when I tried to correct, if by backing off I would oversteer and if by throttle steering I would push further. It made no sense.

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by LACA335i

buddy.. you got the dtc and dsc all wrong... DTC button is for Driving traction control. DSC cant be disable on your car. DSC = driving Stablity Control. However you can disable DTC by holding for 3 sec... The DSC still have control at least 20% on your car. If you like it or not...

Virtually everything you have written here is wrong, which surprises me greatly seeing as how you seem to be a BMW technician.

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by longodj

I don't like driving with DTC AT ALL....with DSC if you are understeering it stops you by slowing down. With DTC it shifts power WHICH if you try to correct spins you around in all sorts of weird directions as it did at my last autocross.

What on earth are you talking about? The interventions that DSC and DTC perform are the same because they are simply different software maps for the same system. DTC doesn't pay as much attention to under/oversteering as DSC does, but they both respond by braking one or more wheels and/or reducing engine power.

[AWD Addict]

Where can I find a cheat sheet on DTC and DSC? I've expirimented a little bit, but not a whole lot. I do feel the car correcting and braking for me sometimes when I'm driving like an ass. It's not offensive, but I do miss the unbridled feel of my AWD suby.

I know it defaults to "on", and that pushign the button (lighting the lamp on the dash) turns it off. But that's about it. Where can I find more info on this?

[longodj]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

What on earth are you talking about? The interventions that DSC and DTC perform are the same because they are simply different software maps for the same system. DTC doesn't pay as much attention to under/oversteering as DSC does, but they both respond by braking one or more wheels and/or reducing engine power.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...82&postcount=4

?? DTC responds without braking, it shifts torque, thus changing the logical method of human interaction to the situation..... Where am I wrong exactly?

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by longodj

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...82&postcount=4

?? DTC responds without braking, it shifts torque, thus changing the logical method of human interaction to the situation..... Where am I wrong exactly?

Here's where: First, it is incorrect that DTC responds without braking. Both DSC and DTC generally respond with individual wheel braking first, and then power reduction, depending on which (and how many) wheels are spinning. Second, the way that DSC/DTC shifts torque is by braking individual wheels. In xi models, the xDrive system will shift torque front to back as necessary, but side-to-side torque shifting is only accomplished through wheel braking because our cars do not have LSDs.

[R12ax7]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

Here's where: First, it is incorrect that DTC responds without braking. Both DSC and DTC generally respond with individual wheel braking first, and then power reduction, depending on which (and how many) wheels are spinning. Second, the way that DSC/DTC shifts torque is by braking individual wheels. In xi models, the xDrive system will shift torque front to back as necessary, but side-to-side torque shifting is only accomplished through wheel braking because our cars do not have LSDs.

This is exactly right (although somehome my CA doesnt comprehend this either).

And I believe the "D" = "Dynamic" (as opposed to driving, not that it matters).

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

Where can I find a cheat sheet on DTC and DSC? I've expirimented a little bit, but not a whole lot. I do feel the car correcting and braking for me sometimes when I'm driving like an ass. It's not offensive, but I do miss the unbridled feel of my AWD suby.

I know it defaults to "on", and that pushign the button (lighting the lamp on the dash) turns it off. But that's about it. Where can I find more info on this?

I'm not sure I've ever seen a cheat sheet on DSC/DTC per se, but there are a few fairly dated threads around here that have a lot of the information you would be looking for. The essence is that pushing the button once engages a software program that has higher tolerances for wheelspin and yaw than the default mode. Pushing and holding the button deactivates the system.

And, as an avid Subie fan myself, I know exactly what you mean about the raw AWD feeling. I actually really like xDrive because of how similar it is to Subie's VTD system.

[longodj]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

Here's where: First, it is incorrect that DTC responds without braking. Both DSC and DTC generally respond with individual wheel braking first, and then power reduction, depending on which (and how many) wheels are spinning. Second, the way that DSC/DTC shifts torque is by braking individual wheels. In xi models, the xDrive system will shift torque front to back as necessary, but side-to-side torque shifting is only accomplished through wheel braking because our cars do not have LSDs.

I stand corrected. However, the "shift torque front to back as necessary" is the part that sounds great in theory but I personally have a problem with. It makes correcting counterintuitive.

[LACA335i]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

Virtually everything you have written here is wrong, which surprises me greatly seeing as how you seem to be a BMW technician.

please tell me why am i wrong. I even test on my previous e90 335i. i took out the DTC for 3 sec. The light also indicate im also remove to the DSC. However, when i try to Drift with the car and try to do 180 turn. It seem like the dsc still in control of the car for safety reason. To vertify my assumption, i have my friend test drive it. He is expert on drifting.. his driving ability is better than mine own. He even say this car still have dsc because it still try to control it so you wont crash into thing.

This is not about im being BMW technican. My respond on this thread is base on mine and my friend experience. If you dont believe me, you can press the dtc for 3 sec. you will see a triangle and circle around it.. You can drift the car around the corner or turning left. You will feel the control still have control of it.. Eventhought you want to let it lose and drift it, It will not let you do it at 100 %. it will allow you to do at least 80 percent of it.

i stand correct .. D is for dymanic... traction control and Dymanic Stability control. Sorry about that everyone.

[Lassaxi]

I can't explain why you are having trouble drifting, assuming that you have fully disengaged DSC by pushing the dash button for at least 3 seconds. But I can assure you that if you have disengaged it, the stability control will not keep you from losing control of your car.

Check out these two Yutube videos from the PDC skidpad. The first video is how the car behaves with DSC on:

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dzRdyoardck&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dzRdyoardck&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

The second video is how the car behaves with DSC off. You'll notice that in this video, the car can spin around completely, which is something that DSC would never allow:

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RiCMbgcObL4&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RiCMbgcObL4&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

It is definitely possible to fully disengage DSC/DTC by pushing and holding the dash button for at least 3 seconds. Both the the BMW Chassis Dynamics training manual and the Owner's manual fully explain this. They're attached below, but I can't get the attachments to work properly. The top image is from Chassis Dynamics manual for the E85, but it applies equally to the E9X. The bottom image is from the Owner's Manual

[OverDrive]

I always (if i remember) push the button for 3 seconds before I drive off. Its a lot of fun specially with xDrive.

[Bimmer325]

i was driving up a parking entrance pretty awkward slope, halfway through, the the car seemed could not catch the gear creaping forward with the triangle sign came on...then, i put to Neutral 'N' and let the car roll back a little and try with DTC '3 sec OFF'...it seemed the same and i can hear & feel of engine couldn't catch the gear...have i damaged the gearing system or anything?

[kwakr738]

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...n_control.html

Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) allows for sports-style driving dynamics even when DSC is controlling stability and when wheel traction is higher.

Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) is a sub-function of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system that can be turned on and off. DTC has two major uses: to regulate traction and to enable sports-style driving while providing active stability control.
If the front wheels are stuck in snow and cannot spin properly, this leads to slip on the rear wheels (when they spin faster than the front wheels, generally a sign that performance has been exceeded) and DSC acts to change engine output: the power needed for forward movement is reduced. Switching to DTC has a positive effect on this situation, as traction is improved without a loss of power.
When DTC is on, it helps the driver alleviate the situation enough for DSC's measures to become effective. The driver retains complete control over the vehicle.

[BDMBimmer]

I was told that when you disable DSC by holding it down for 3secs at a certain speed it comes back on.
There is also another mode, if you hold down the button for at least 10secs (I think it beeps and the lights flash and the DSC DTC lights are off) everything is turned off completely including ABS... You can confirm that it is off by press the DSC button and nothing happens. The only way to get it back on is to restart the car.

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by BDMBimmer

I was told that when you disable DSC by holding it down for 3secs at a certain speed it comes back on.
There is also another mode, if you hold down the button for at least 10secs (I think it beeps and the lights flash and the DSC DTC lights are off) everything is turned off completely including ABS... You can confirm that it is off by press the DSC button and nothing happens. The only way to get it back on is to restart the car.

i'm gonna go try this right now and let you know what happens..

[jpsimon]

hahah ok so...... i pressed and held it for about 10 seconds. The light turned off, and as you said pressing it again would not turn the stuff back on. So I backed out of my driveway and before i could get to the bottom a bunch of errors came on the screen followed by service engine image (car up on the lift icon) and a message saying basically saying "DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR!!!!!!!"


can someone please confirm with me that this = fully off stability and traction? and is it ok to drive with all these ridiculous errors and service warnings?