E90Post
 


GT Haus
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede Fuel Control



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-10-2012, 09:53 PM   #1
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Exclamation Procede Fuel Control

There's a small group of folks out there who are trying very hard to convince others that only a flash can control fuel properly. I've never agreed with them because actual testing that I'VE ACTUALLY DONE suggested otherwise. We have spent the last 6 months developing the fuel control system on the Procede to outperform every other tuning device we have ever bench tested. This means the Procede isn't just programmed to provide consistent AFR targeting but also FAST targeting.

Today we put the Procede to the test with what is perhaps the biggest challenge any n54 tune has ever faced: A single turbo set-up making nearly 500whp on pump gas alone. First, here is a graph showing all our runs during the day. Roughly half where on 93oct pump gas alone. The rest were on 93+meth. At power levels ranging from 450whp to 525whp:



Earlier in the dyno session, we did a test to see how fast the Procede will target AFR post-shift. To do this, I did a 3rd to 4th gear pull (with a FAST shift) on the dyno running 17psi with NO METH. With dyno smoothing set to 0. I don't recommend running a nearly 480whp car in 3rd gear on the dyno (it gets a bit wiggly) but, in this case, it was in the name of science. Dynojet lambda meter was mounted in the tailpipe (not logged from factory lambda sensors)



As you can see, AFR targeting is immediate. No short-term lean spot post-shift. As you would expect AFR is even richer than normal during fast accel and dynamic load conditions.

I don't mean to present this info to be argumentative. Instead, I hope to be informative. We actually do spend a lot of out time developing and testing engine control systems. While it's a lot easier to play in the internet warrior game, it really doesn't get us anywhere.

my 2c,
Shiv
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2012, 09:57 PM   #2
Kris 335i
...
Kris 335i's Avatar
0
Rep
92
Posts

 
Drives: 335
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Well put
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2012, 10:09 PM   #3
JamesM3M5
Some dude
United_States
24
Rep
1,760
Posts

 
Drives: E28 M5, E92 335i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Northern VA

iTrader: (0)

Damn, I knew that 500hp ceiling had to be Internet lore. Great job all around, guys. That single turbo is going to put Vishnu over the top.
__________________
RRT Racing
E92 335i/6MT Dinan Stage 3: intercooler, oil cooler, intake, flash, exhaust, LW dual-mass flywheel.
Vishnu PWM methanol custom trunk mount, Diffsonline 3-clutch Salisbury custom diff, Ohlins Road and Track coilovers, Vorshlag camber plates, much more...
E28 M5 w/ buncha stuff, R171 SLK350
Appreciate 0
      02-10-2012, 10:12 PM   #4
dzenno
Banned
Canada
114
Rep
5,883
Posts

 
Drives:
Join Date: Feb 2006

iTrader: (1)

Excellent! Glad after 6 months you've managed to address the issues I/we talked about...looks great, congrats again!
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 02:44 AM   #5
Brey335i
Brigadier General
Brey335i's Avatar
52
Rep
4,737
Posts

 
Drives: e46 ///M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (11)

That's just a nasty AFR (in the good way) lol. Can't wait to see a dyno glory run.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 08:01 AM   #6
scottp999
Brigadier General
scottp999's Avatar
57
Rep
4,666
Posts

 
Drives: 335i - E92 - 6MT & 4runner SR5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335  [4.50]
Shiv - looks nice
__________________
Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (Devil's Own 12 GPH Nozzle/Aquamist Flow Sensor/Labonte VC25), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

Last edited by scottp999; 02-11-2012 at 06:48 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 10:59 AM   #7
Beemw335
Colonel
29
Rep
2,016
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: My car is my home

iTrader: (2)

Shiv, you basically taught this community everything we know, youre the first to tune our cars, the first to make good power, the first to use canbus to get dash displays, first to get autotuning etc.
I have no doubt in my mind that you will fine tune this single turbo to perfection. I cant wait to see it, and thank you for taking the time to post this up.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #8
secretsquirrel
Colonel
secretsquirrel's Avatar
26
Rep
2,100
Posts

 
Drives: 335i nFifty4LiFe
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: land of the squirrel

iTrader: (2)

Its premature negativity that keeps people from sharing information ad they go. I'm sure Shiv was prepared and is only showing a fraction of what he has accomplished for fear of the anti fanboys running off and creating negativity. It's a shame because many of the negativity nancies provide good information and a contribution to the community when theyre not acting catty.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 11:02 AM   #9
Lulz_M3
Banned
United_States
13
Rep
1,029
Posts

 
Drives: AW 335i 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Jax, Fl

iTrader: (0)

I think everyone is waving their flag just a little too hard. If you prefer the by-the-book proper way to address a tune - wait for Cobb to get here, it will come eventually. For those that dont want to wait and appreciate the additional functions that are not available on a flash tune, enjoy your PROcede. Congrats Shiv.

*Before anyone starts claiming nut swinger status - i am just trying to be real. I, for one, prefer the by-the-book approach. To each his own fellas.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 12:24 PM   #10
vasillalov
Mad Linux Guru On The Loose
vasillalov's Avatar
Bulgaria
84
Rep
4,196
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 335i E90  [4.00]
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
__________________
Equal Opportunity Harasser!
6MT | COBB | AR | AE | Forge DV | HPF | P3 Gauge | Hybrid Intake | O.S.Giken TCD | All M3 bits | TCKLine | StopTech
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 01:57 PM   #11
EastBayE90
Formerly (-(ellblazer420
EastBayE90's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
703
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E90 335i M/T
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SF East Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
Lol yea what happened that was rather fast oh wellllllll
__________________

(410whp 445ft/lbs | DCI + Meth Only)
OpenFlash OTS Stage 1 Flash | Vishnu PWM Meth Kit | Vishnu DCI| Forge DVs

Last edited by EastBayE90; 02-11-2012 at 02:08 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 01:59 PM   #12
Lulz_M3
Banned
United_States
13
Rep
1,029
Posts

 
Drives: AW 335i 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Jax, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
Lol seriously, what the Hell. So this is what it's like to live in a communist country.....
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 02:00 PM   #13
Beemw335
Colonel
29
Rep
2,016
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: My car is my home

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
I saw it,
But Im sure Shiv dorsnt want to get into details of his project just yet until he is done.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 02:01 PM   #14
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335
Quote:
Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
Lovely how completely sincere, non-offensive and non-engaging comments have the tendency to completely disappear!
I saw it,
But Im sure Shiv dorsnt want to get into details of his project just yet until he is done.
I had nothing to do with the pruning of this thread. I was actually looking forward to responding.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 02:05 PM   #15
EastBayE90
Formerly (-(ellblazer420
EastBayE90's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
703
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E90 335i M/T
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SF East Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Just thinking about how crazy it must have been in 3rd on the dyno in this beast. Then shifting into 4th ahhhhhh Shiv I need a ride soon
__________________

(410whp 445ft/lbs | DCI + Meth Only)
OpenFlash OTS Stage 1 Flash | Vishnu PWM Meth Kit | Vishnu DCI| Forge DVs
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 02:07 PM   #16
Beemw335
Colonel
29
Rep
2,016
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: My car is my home

iTrader: (2)

My bad Shiv,
I guess the mods though it would start something..
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 02:29 PM   #17
werke-t
Captain
9
Rep
700
Posts

 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL

iTrader: (5)

Logs look great!

I never understood the "flash" guys always claiming superiority when it came to AFR control.

Glad you proved them wrong.

Cant wait to get my PWM kit working, hopefully talk to you guys early this week to get it all figured out.

-Travis
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 06:49 PM   #18
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulz_M3 View Post
I think everyone is waving their flag just a little too hard. If you prefer the by-the-book proper way to address a tune - wait for Cobb to get here, it will come eventually. For those that dont want to wait and appreciate the additional functions that are not available on a flash tune, enjoy your PROcede. Congrats Shiv.

*Before anyone starts claiming nut swinger status - i am just trying to be real. I, for one, prefer the by-the-book approach. To each his own fellas.
I hate to break it to you but some of the mapping tricks employed by n54 flashes aren't by-the-book. In many respects they are even more evasive than what goes on with the Procede. Does tricking the DME to run more boost by making the MAP sensor's calibration nonlinear sound by-the-book? Can you imagine how mis-calibrating the main engine load sensor effects other engine parameters?
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 06:53 PM   #19
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by werke-t View Post
Logs look great!

I never understood the "flash" guys always claiming superiority when it came to AFR control.

Glad you proved them wrong.

Cant wait to get my PWM kit working, hopefully talk to you guys early this week to get it all figured out.

-Travis
I think most people make claims based upon what they heard from "reliable sources". Unfortunately, if you take the time to track back the sources of these claims, they aren't so reliable.

Give us a call on Monday and we can help you with your meth kit

Shiv
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 06:55 PM   #20
Lulz_M3
Banned
United_States
13
Rep
1,029
Posts

 
Drives: AW 335i 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Jax, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I hate to break it to you but some of the mapping tricks employed by n54 flashes aren't by-the-book. In many respects they are even more evasive than what goes on with the Procede. Does tricking the DME to run more boost by making the MAP sensor's calibration nonlinear sound by-the-book? Can you imagine how mis-calibrating the main engine load sensor effects other engine parameters?
You may be right but i have faith that once the ability for anyone to tune the factory tables is in place, things will get interesting. Im curious as to why Vishnu has never dabbled into flash tunes for the N54? You guys obviously know what you are doing. If i remember correctly you guys offer flash tunes for other applications, correct?
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 07:06 PM   #21
shiv@vishnu
Tuner
United_States
702
Rep
17,616
Posts

 
Drives: X1, 335i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulz_M3 View Post
You may be right but i have faith that once the ability for anyone to tune the factory tables is in place, things will get interesting. Im curious as to why Vishnu has never dabbled into flash tunes for the N54? You guys obviously know what you are doing. If i remember correctly you guys offer flash tunes for other applications, correct?
The ability to tune factory tables will not likely be in place. More likely, you will be tuning "interpretations" of factory tables. Let's be honest here. There are hundreds of tables, most of which the tuners don't understand or feel comfortable editing. They make selective edits until they think they get a positive outcome. Without a road map, does this sound like a text book tuning approach?

We have the ability to read/write the MSD80/81. But after seeing all the round-about mapping tricks required to simply run a desired boost target, the idea of tuning a complete system wasn't realistic. Especially since we can achieve same or better effects with the Procede but with no chance of incurring the wraith of a misplaced bit or unforeseen inter-table relationship/dependancy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm considering bumping up my redline by 100-200rpm. And maybe changing my idle speed to reduce some lightweight flywheel rattle. These things can only be done with flashes. But in terms of the fun stuff, I'm a firm believer doing what works and what I'm comfortable with. Not to mention I value full integration when it comes to things like stand alone boost control and meth control. Stacking tunes/electronics is good example. It works, sure. But NEVER as well or as safely as an integrated solution. In the end, you are left with functionality gaps that could have been avoided.

Shiv

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 02-11-2012 at 07:16 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-11-2012, 08:27 PM   #22
onebadmofo
Banned
Russian Federation
54
Rep
2,394
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 E92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central NJ

iTrader: (14)

Shiv, how far are we from running a completely standalone engine management system like AEM?
My old "tuner" car (3000GT VR4) was good with stock ECU up until 550-600awhp, after that you had to get stand-alone because stock ECU could not handle larger injectors, higher redline, etc. Granted the car was designed in early 90's things were a little simpler back then.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST