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      06-24-2008, 06:41 PM   #45
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Dinan's gain

If you look at Dinan hp vs rpm grid which also has their stock car as a comparison you can see that when Dinan got 384 wHP the stock setup was getting 329 wHP a gain of 55 wHP at their maximum level. Their dyno setup is biased high vs. most out there.

http://www.dinancars.com/assets/File...A%20EDITED.pdf

So in comparison to most Dynojet stock setups showing 270-280 whp expect to get 320 -330 whp with the Dinan stage 2 ( stock plus 55 x 0.88 ( drive train loss)).

It does produce + 79 hp at 4000 rpm over stock where it max's its boost at 13.2 psi. It doesn't push it's high end that much.

Many Dinan dyno's get about this whp number.

research what you are getting.
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      06-24-2008, 06:45 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I don't need to 'pimp' my piggy any more than I need to say that 310-330whp isn't 385-392bhp.
Yet you constantly appear in these threads to bash Dinan when someone so much as whispers about using a Procede equipped car as another data point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I get phone calls asking how much power our PROcede makes on an otherwise stock car. I tell them about 380bhp. To me, 380bhp is 345-350whp.
Dinan has a well publicized white paper on how they do dyno testing and how they establish crank hp numbers. The fact that your estimation of horsepower may be conservative in comparison doesn't make them liars or frauds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Then I'm told that Dinan makes 385bhp, which is more. I explain if that is the case, we must make 420bhp using that same "logic". Fortunately, I say that as a joke because I'm not really into lying to potential customers. Unfortunately, other companies have no problem doing just this.
If your product is making more power, you should put your marketing skills to use to take advantage of that and show that in a no-nonsense way. Whining about the competition "not playing fair" hardly does your product or your company justice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
So it's not enough just to let our product and FACTs speak for themselves in a world where the uninformed are so easily manipulated and brain-washed by BS claims that have no basis in reality, perceived or measured. If anyone wants to argue with facts and actual data, that's great. It's will be to the benefit of any reader, regardless of what their conclusions are. But if someone wants to defend their purchase blindly, present no emperical data to support their argument, and name call those who bring up the issue, they should stay logged off and let the big boys talk.

Shiv
I respect your tuning expertise, but you have a ways to mature before you call yourself one of the "big boys". I have no strong bias in favor of any particular tuner but notice you are awfully quick to rip into your competition and extremely defensive when you get called on it.
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      06-24-2008, 06:51 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skim7x View Post
I have Dinan stage II flash and here were my numbers:

Dyno Run 1: 328.2rwhp; 349.2rwtq
Dyno Run 2: 328.9rwhp; 359.4rwtq
Dyno Run 3: 323.6rwhp; 361.5rwtq

These numbers are higher than the OP's (not sure why because I was on dynojet also).

These numbers are on par with Dinan's claim of 380hp and 420ftlb. Just to round:

330rwhp = .868 x 380hp = 13.2% drivetrain loss (acceptable)
360rwtq = .857 x 420tq = 14.3% drivetrain loss (acceptable)

And note, these numbers were done in 99F, 25% humidity weather.

I think it's a little premature to say that Dinan is "sketchy" and imply that they are lying about their figures without more information. Do you really think Dinan would become the success they have on a foundation of lies? Do you really think you're the first one to question and check their numbers?
342rwhp vs your 327rwhp = 15rwhp down from what Dinan wanted to sell you.
It's just disappointing to me. When you got your car on the dyno weren't you really hoping to see at least 342 and maybe closer to 350 if you were lucky.
The actual #'s have always been less than Dinan's promise.
Has anyone dyno'd more than Dinan's posted #'s?
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      06-24-2008, 06:55 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garissimo View Post
Yet you constantly appear in these threads to bash Dinan when someone so much as whispers about using a Procede equipped car as another data point.



Dinan has a well publicized white paper on how they do dyno testing and how they establish crank hp numbers. The fact that your estimation of horsepower may be conservative in comparison doesn't make them liars or frauds.



If your product is making more power, you should put your marketing skills to use to take advantage of that and show that in a no-nonsense way. Whining about the competition "not playing fair" hardly does your product or your company justice.




I respect your tuning expertise, but you have a ways to mature before you call yourself one of the "big boys". I have no strong bias in favor of any particular tuner but notice you are awfully quick to rip into your competition and extremely defensive when you get called on it.
I'm sorry if you feel that stating the obvious is "ripping into" competition.

As for different companies using a more conservative or aggressive method of calculating flywheel hp, it really shouldn't matter. Because in the end its up to common sense and better judgement. Sometimes a tuner needs to ask himself, "Shouldn't a 3500lb that makes 390bhp to run quite a bit quicker than 106-107mph trap speeds?"

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      06-24-2008, 06:56 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt View Post
342rwhp vs your 327rwhp = 15rwhp down from what Dinan wanted to sell you.
It's just disappointing to me. When you got your car on the dyno weren't you really hoping to see at least 342 and maybe closer to 350 if you were lucky.
The actual #'s have always been less than Dinan's promise.
Has anyone dyno'd more than Dinan's posted #'s?
335whp (385bhp using 13% loss) for my 6MT Dinan original stage 2.
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      06-24-2008, 07:05 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
335whp (385bhp using 13% loss) for my 6MT Dinan original stage 2.
Kelvin, have you got the Stage 2 Rev 2 dynoed yet? Looking forward to your results.
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      06-24-2008, 07:50 PM   #51
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The numbers are what they are. What it comes down to is your faith that the system (whatever ECU flash/piggy you are running) will work without fail. I'm a tuner at heart and would love to squeeze every bit of performance out of my 335, but cost is a major issue, both on the front and back ends. Personally, I would love to get bigger gains with v3 and for a cheaper price, but I also can't forget that I just spent $51,000 on this car. If I only spent $5k on a Honda and decided to throw in another $15k for mods, I wouldn't feel nearly as bad if the thing blew up cuz I could still afford to rebuild two entirely new cars for the same price as one 335 with mods. So for me, I'd rather spend an extra 1% of the price of my car and sacrifice a few hp in exchange for an insurance policy. I have absolutely no way of knowing whether I would ever encounter catastrophic problems in either situation, but it's something I'm OK with, and something I think all current and future Dinan owners should accept if/when they choose that route.
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      06-24-2008, 08:01 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
335whp (385bhp using 13% loss) for my 6MT Dinan original stage 2.
But Dinan's published work shows that we only have an 8.9% drivetrain loss at peak power.
335whp*1.122= 375bhp only 10hp off, so not too bad.

I guess its just simpler to look at the gains made to discount dyno differences.
Dinan's overall gain from just a stage 2 tune according to the original published works is 342-296= +46 whp gain sooo...
Has anyone seen a 46 whp gain or more?
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      06-24-2008, 09:21 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt View Post
But Dinan's published work shows that we only have an 8.9% drivetrain loss at peak power.
335whp*1.122= 375bhp only 10hp off, so not too bad.

I guess its just simpler to look at the gains made to discount dyno differences.
Dinan's overall gain from just a stage 2 tune according to the original published works is 342-296= +46 whp gain sooo...
Has anyone seen a 46 whp gain or more?
Unfortunately, I didn't get a baseline dyno, as I should have. But, according to other 335i stock dynos (also done on dynojets), cars made 273rwhp, 268.82rwhp, and 280.22rwhp (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47377)

My numbers once again:
Dyno Run 1: 328.2rwhp; 349.2rwtq
Dyno Run 2: 328.9rwhp; 359.4rwtq
Dyno Run 3: 323.6rwhp; 361.5rwtq

My average hp: 326rwhp
Stock average hp: 274rwhp
Difference between the two: 52rwhp

In conclusion, 52rwhp > 46rwhp

But as you can see, the rwhp varies widely, partially due to different output of each individual engine, partially due to different dyno machines, and partially due to elemental factors like temperature, humidity, and altitude. So really, the fact that some people are getting 15rwhp below what Dinan advertises does not warrant an accusation of fraud. Like someone else said previously, the numbers are what they are...
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      06-24-2008, 09:38 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
No, don't take my opinion as fact by any means. The results that other Dinan customers have posted, time and time again, speak loud enough.

Shiv
You always fail to address or acknowledge the Dinan dynos that show strong numbers. You only show up to point out the "lesser" ones.

It is pretty obvious. Also pretty shady.
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      06-24-2008, 09:46 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I'm sorry if you feel that stating the obvious is "ripping into" competition.

As for different companies using a more conservative or aggressive method of calculating flywheel hp, it really shouldn't matter. Because in the end its up to common sense and better judgement. Sometimes a tuner needs to ask himself, "Shouldn't a 3500lb that makes 390bhp to run quite a bit quicker than 106-107mph trap speeds?"

shiv
Looks like PROcede sales are falling....no one cares about you nonsense and especially a tune that blows turbo like yours.

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      06-24-2008, 09:46 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
335whp (385bhp using 13% loss) for my 6MT Dinan original stage 2.
Don't even bother posting that. For a select few, positive results with Dinan will be neglected at all costs.
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      06-24-2008, 09:58 PM   #57
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      06-24-2008, 10:25 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skim7x View Post
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      06-25-2008, 01:28 AM   #59
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I'm not interested in the tuning war it seems a select few have with each other, and issues with price and warranty are things that most of us factor personally into our decisions of which route to take with our cars. I am not as technical as some of you are with the tunes ( although I am learning lots) but I will say that I am not as impressed with the Dinan performance gains as I was hoping to be. That us just my personal opinion not meant to insult anyone.
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      06-25-2008, 02:55 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt View Post
But Dinan's published work shows that we only have an 8.9% drivetrain loss at peak power.
335whp*1.122= 375bhp only 10hp off, so not too bad.

I guess its just simpler to look at the gains made to discount dyno differences.
Dinan's overall gain from just a stage 2 tune according to the original published works is 342-296= +46 whp gain sooo...
Has anyone seen a 46 whp gain or more?
335whp = 368 crank hp at 8.9% drivetrain loss.

to check my math 368 crank - 0.089 * 368 = 335 at the wheel (i rounded by 3/10th of a hp).

quick way to do it is 335 wheel /.9 = 368 crank.
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      06-25-2008, 07:46 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Don't even bother posting that. For a select few, positive results with Dinan will be neglected at all costs.
No its too sexy, too sexy - Ahh but I must:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106285

More than well documented with crappy South Florida heat and humidity.

I have slacked and been unable to dyno the Stage 2 revision to compare to the base and the original flash but I will try to get it done this weekend (though I have been crying wolf for 3 weeks now)...

KP
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      06-25-2008, 07:52 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
335whp = 368 crank hp at 8.9% drivetrain loss.

to check my math 368 crank - 0.089 * 368 = 335 at the wheel (i rounded by 3/10th of a hp).

quick way to do it is 335 wheel /.9 = 368 crank.
at the outset it looks like thats the way to apply the math but in reality you need to invert the 8.9% 1/.089 = 1.122 to convert up from whp to bhp.

When converting up from whp to bhp use the bhp = (whp * 1.122)
When converting down from bhp to whp use the whp = (bhp * 0.089)
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      06-25-2008, 08:12 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skim7x View Post
Unfortunately, I didn't get a baseline dyno, as I should have. But, according to other 335i stock dynos (also done on dynojets), cars made 273rwhp, 268.82rwhp, and 280.22rwhp (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47377)

My numbers once again:
Dyno Run 1: 328.2rwhp; 349.2rwtq
Dyno Run 2: 328.9rwhp; 359.4rwtq
Dyno Run 3: 323.6rwhp; 361.5rwtq

My average hp: 326rwhp
Stock average hp: 274rwhp
Difference between the two: 52rwhp

In conclusion, 52rwhp > 46rwhp

But as you can see, the rwhp varies widely, partially due to different output of each individual engine, partially due to different dyno machines, and partially due to elemental factors like temperature, humidity, and altitude. So really, the fact that some people are getting 15rwhp below what Dinan advertises does not warrant an accusation of fraud. Like someone else said previously, the numbers are what they are...
Cool! 52 rwhp thats a good start.
Hopefully someone will do a base dyno before they get their Dinan tune so we get some more data.
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      06-25-2008, 10:09 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
No its too sexy, too sexy - Ahh but I must:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106285

More than well documented with crappy South Florida heat and humidity.

I have slacked and been unable to dyno the Stage 2 revision to compare to the base and the original flash but I will try to get it done this weekend (though I have been crying wolf for 3 weeks now)...

KP
That is a good looking dyno Kelvin. Definitely nice to have the baseline. Looking forward to the Revision results.
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      06-25-2008, 11:22 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
That is a good looking dyno Kelvin. Definitely nice to have the baseline. Looking forward to the Revision results.
This is encouraging, it is much better to just look at the difference in the before and after dynos. Kelvin's results also show a 51whp gain which is actually better than the Dinan advertised.
Hopefully the revision results are just as good.
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      06-25-2008, 01:18 PM   #66
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here is the guys dyno with atage 2 and the 328whp and 360wtq.This is a bone stock car with dinan stage 2 ONLY and 93 oct.Shiv this dyno is SAE corrected and you know well it would of made a few more donkeys if it were in std.

speaking of stds,why are you infecting posts about other products,you are simply trolling this thread.

the car made almost 330whp SAE in 99d weather,if this was done when all your glory dynos were done it would of made a few more,lets all agree now that it would of made 5 more whp in 70d weather and then add another 5 more whp because its not in std like all your dynos and you get what?

340whp,pretty close to what dinan states right?Ohh and that torque would have been way over the 370 mark also.

Add a free flow exh and the numbers will get even closer to there marks.

All this with a warenty too

anyway here is the dyno.

bone stock other than tune,SAE,99dF,small carpet fan and still busts out 330whp
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