E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > SpyPix--BMW 335d in Final U.S. Tests (282 hp / 428 lb-ft)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-09-2008, 12:05 PM   #89
535desire
Private First Class
 
Drives: MB & VW diesels
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX

Posts: 162
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCali E90 View Post
dude diesel is like an average of like $5.30 a gallon here in cali. who in their right mind would go for this? even if it is better gas mileage the price of it will become basically the same thing as a normal gasoline car.
you really should drive a diesel before you make up your mind about this. Although I've never driven a BMW diesel, I can tell you that the difference between smaller cars is quite noticable, and I can only imagine how much more so in the twin-turbo 3 liter.

as said elsewhere in this thread, the mpg estimates for the BMW diesel are very conservative (compared to the EU numbers). Another thing that is helpful in the analysis is to calculate miles per dollar between diesel and gas, using real world numbers for both.
535desire is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 12:58 PM   #90
335er
Second Lieutenant
 
335er's Avatar
 
Drives: Was 335 e90 6M Now G35S 6M
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockville, MD

Posts: 225
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_3 View Post
As an E92 335D driver ... it just confirms that I can run a car with more torque than an M3 or M5, effortless pace and comparable straight line speed to a 335i (that's from real drivers' experience and feedback of both cars in the UK). I can have all that, but still have a nice little bonus that it costs less than a 328i to run.

It seems that most, not all, Americans are unable to see the 335D as an alternative performance package, but rather see the "D" badge and break immediately into arithmetic to work out fuel savings. Which do exist.

If you want a high-revving experience go buy a 335i - you'll love it, and nobody could fault you.

However .... if you enjoy a mountain of addictive, creamy torque (just ask all those 335i drivers who appreciate that), equal real world performance and much better mpg you'll soon have the choice of a 335D. Choice is good.

D.
There are a few reasons that I broke down the figures:

1) You are right; Americans tend to get a calculator out to see if diesel is worth it. I did this in part out of my own curiosity and in part to give people hard numbers, rather than assertions based on the price of diesel alone;

2) I have heard that there will be a price premium for the 335d, and, setting aside the performance issues, I was curious to know how much it would cost compared to a 335i, if the straight line performance was close to an apples-to-apples comparison, other than the number of revs hit;

3) The 335d comes in automatic only, and I'm a committed manual driver; I wanted to see how the numbers stacked up to potentially persuade me to buy an automatic.
335er is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 01:31 PM   #91
idyll
Private First Class
 
Drives: BMW 328i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: FL

Posts: 140
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335er View Post
Ok, I tried to figure out what the annual savings would be, if any, among the different 3 series options for 2009. Feel free to comment on the numbers. The fuel prices are from MarylandFuelPrices.com, using my home city. I also estimated 15,000 highway miles a year for driving (as it would be easier for me to calculate that way; I understand that is not necessarily representative of everyone's individual commute). The 0-60 times are based on BMWUSA.com, plus the 6.2 seconds for 0-62 noted on the first page of this thread.

Price of premium: $4.31
Price of diesel: $4.99

Miles driven per year: 15,000

328i highway mpg, estimated 0-60: 28, 6.3 (manual), 6.9 (automatic)
335i highway mpg : 26, 5.4 (manual), 5.6 (automatic)
335d highway mpg (est): 33, 6.2 (automatic only)

328i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/28): 536
335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/26): 577
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/33): 455

328i total annual fuel cost (536x$4.31): $2,308.93
335i total annual fuel cost (577x$4.31): $2,486.54
335d total annual fuel cost (455 x $4.99): $2,268.18

So, total savings (under the facts assumed here) for the 335d is $40.75, compared to the 328i, and $218.36, compared to the 335i. That surprised me, as I had been a big proponent of the 335d, even if it is coming in automatic-only guise. But now with diesel prices at 68 per gallon more than premium, the annual fuel cost differential is pretty small. That's a change since the last time I tried this analysis (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=171).


My 328i gets 33 mpg highway. I bet the 335d will also get more than 33 mph highway though.

And the fuel savings are sort of negated by the 335d's higher price vs the 328i/335i. At least for a couple of years.
idyll is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 01:35 PM   #92
dxb335d
The Tarmac Terrorist
 
dxb335d's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3 CS
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ''Fandango Towers''

Posts: 29,262
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltron1011 View Post
BTW, what's BMW's stance on bio-diesel?
Filler cap states ''No Bio-diesel''.

Shame the US spec one is down on power. A cracking car.
__________________
M3 gone .... But I now have a M3 CS
dxb335d is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 01:35 PM   #93
dxb335d
The Tarmac Terrorist
 
dxb335d's Avatar
 
Drives: E46 M3 CS
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ''Fandango Towers''

Posts: 29,262
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Highway you can get 40+mpg cruising at 90mph..
__________________
M3 gone .... But I now have a M3 CS
dxb335d is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 02:47 PM   #94
McLuVan
Lieutenant General
 
McLuVan's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Socal~818~

Posts: 13,120
iTrader: (1)

that's a shit load of tq
__________________
McLuVan is offline   Vietnam
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 02:52 PM   #95
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
 
E90SLAM's Avatar
 
Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

Posts: 60,998
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2006 330i  [4.67]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
Highway you can get 40+mpg cruising at 90mph..
+1
its all about foot control...
__________________
E90SLAM is offline   Hong Kong
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 03:00 PM   #96
Inzane
Lieutenant
 
Inzane's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 LCI 335i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Posts: 426
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
If we are talking front bumper those are for the NEW front parking sensors which are going to finally make it to the US!
Sidenote: Why would people need a FRONT parking sensor? For the mentally "challenged"?
Inzane is online now   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 03:31 PM   #97
hotrod2448
grand poobah
 
hotrod2448's Avatar
 
Drives: E70 X5 SG, F10 535i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 2,015
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335d  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzane View Post
Sidenote: Why would people need a FRONT parking sensor? For the mentally "challenged"?
Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?
hotrod2448 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 03:41 PM   #98
Dascamel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Dascamel's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bakersfield, CA

Posts: 1,662
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?
+1?
__________________
2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim
2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options
2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
Dascamel is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 03:45 PM   #99
IDreamofBimmers
Captain
 
IDreamofBimmers's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 VW GTI
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bethesda, MD

Posts: 987
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?
why not? it's a cool tool to have
__________________
2008 VW GTI
IDreamofBimmers is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 03:57 PM   #100
Lassaxi
Major
 
Lassaxi's Avatar
 
Drives: April ED - E90 328xi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boston

Posts: 1,035
iTrader: (0)

Why do people need a 3 series at all?
__________________
May 3, '07European Delivery, Redelivered on 6/11/07 - Monaco Blue/Beige, Steptronic, ZPP, ZCW, PDC, iDrive/Navi with RTTI, Logic 7, Xenons, HD Radio
Lassaxi is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 04:03 PM   #101
idyll
Private First Class
 
Drives: BMW 328i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: FL

Posts: 140
iTrader: (0)

What's life?
idyll is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 06:25 PM   #102
mwahlert
Lieutenant Colonel
 
mwahlert's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Durham, NC

Posts: 1,547
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
keep in mind "small" desiel engines generally return better than epa estimated mileage..... read a bit about actual mileage returned from vw 1.9tdi's vs epa estimates..

the problem is the 335d will likely cost MORE than a 335i.... i doubt bmw is going to offer any incentive to get the diesel ball rolling....
mwahlert is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 06:41 PM   #103
calleballe
ExPAt
 
calleballe's Avatar
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Planet Earth - U.S.

Posts: 491
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?

Ehh, if you park daily in NYC or other major city, you'll love this. Instead of having valet park guys scratching your bumpers, you keep car somewhat ok.
__________________
"If everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane"

Current cars
BMW 328i (to become sth else)
calleballe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 07:16 PM   #104
hotrod2448
grand poobah
 
hotrod2448's Avatar
 
Drives: E70 X5 SG, F10 535i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 2,015
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335d  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by calleballe View Post
Ehh, if you park daily in NYC or other major city, you'll love this. Instead of having valet park guys scratching your bumpers, you keep car somewhat ok.
It was a rhetorical question.
hotrod2448 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 11:21 PM   #105
ksfrogman
Major General
 
ksfrogman's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 330i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Torrance, CA

Posts: 6,751
iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
2006 330i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to ksfrogman
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AFRO View Post
Why so much torque..?
...because it's a diesel. Longer stroke, sturdier block, higher compression.
__________________
ksfrogman is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-09-2008, 11:33 PM   #106
Insider
Captain
 
Insider's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 4,500 feet above sea level

Posts: 710
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AFRO View Post
Why so much torque..?
Because the turbo's are pressurizing the engine with 26PSI of boost. Give it 8.5PSI of boost like the 335i, and your looking at less torque than the 335i. The diesel needs its 26psi of boost to make its 265HP, otherwise it would be a gutless wonder like diesels of the past.
__________________
http://www.insiderpicks.com - The world's best stock picks.

Last edited by Insider; 07-10-2008 at 08:39 AM.
Insider is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-10-2008, 01:20 AM   #107
Year's_End
RWD only.
 
Year's_End's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Pete, FL

Posts: 12,237
iTrader: (0)

Why does the 335d only come in auto? That torque would make heel-and-toeing so much easier.
__________________
E92 335i: Space Grey|Coral Red|Aluminum Trim

Future Ride: 2015 Mustang GT Premium |Guard|401A|PP|Recaros|6MT
Year's_End is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-10-2008, 04:32 AM   #108
BlackJetE90
Colonel
 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: e90

Posts: 2,229
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335er View Post
Ok, I tried to figure out what the annual savings would be, if any, among the different 3 series options for 2009. Feel free to comment on the numbers. The fuel prices are from MarylandFuelPrices.com, using my home city. I also estimated 15,000 highway miles a year for driving (as it would be easier for me to calculate that way; I understand that is not necessarily representative of everyone's individual commute). The 0-60 times are based on BMWUSA.com, plus the 6.2 seconds for 0-62 noted on the first page of this thread.

Price of premium: $4.31
Price of diesel: $4.99

Miles driven per year: 15,000

328i highway mpg, estimated 0-60: 28, 6.3 (manual), 6.9 (automatic)
335i highway mpg : 26, 5.4 (manual), 5.6 (automatic)
335d highway mpg (est): 33, 6.2 (automatic only)

328i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/28): 536
335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/26): 577
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/33): 455

328i total annual fuel cost (536x$4.31): $2,308.93
335i total annual fuel cost (577x$4.31): $2,486.54
335d total annual fuel cost (455 x $4.99): $2,268.18

So, total savings (under the facts assumed here) for the 335d is $40.75, compared to the 328i, and $218.36, compared to the 335i. That surprised me, as I had been a big proponent of the 335d, even if it is coming in automatic-only guise. But now with diesel prices at 68 per gallon more than premium, the annual fuel cost differential is pretty small. That's a change since the last time I tried this analysis (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=171).

Your results are skewed. Only using highway mileage is not the way to figure savings. You need to use combined mpg numbers.

Also east coast diesel is expensive, so your region wouldn't see the savings others would. Although it would increase using combined mpg.

Using my local(Huntington Beach, CA) prices for Premium and Diesel, same station.

Price of premium: $4.65
Price of diesel: $5.09

Miles driven per year: 15,000

335i combined mpg : 31.0
335d combined mpg : 42.2

335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/31.0): 484
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/42.2): 355

335i total annual fuel cost (484x$4.31): $2,250.60
335d total annual fuel cost (355 x $4.99): $1806.95

Savings: $443.65/year


Basically it comes down to what your local gas and diesel prices are. Didn't use the 328i, I couldn't find a combined mpg number for it.


Not to mention the 335d is nicer to the enviroment.

Co2 Emissions (g/m):

335i - 218

335d - 177


The 335d is ~27% more fuel efficient, 31.0 mpg combined vs. 42.2 mpg combined.

335d Co2 emissions are about ~19% less.
BlackJetE90 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-10-2008, 06:24 AM   #109
hotrod2448
grand poobah
 
hotrod2448's Avatar
 
Drives: E70 X5 SG, F10 535i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 2,015
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 335d  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist View Post
Why does the 335d only come in auto? That torque would make heel-and-toeing so much easier.
What does torque have to do with heel toe downshifting?
hotrod2448 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-10-2008, 07:40 AM   #110
335er
Second Lieutenant
 
335er's Avatar
 
Drives: Was 335 e90 6M Now G35S 6M
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockville, MD

Posts: 225
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Your results are skewed. Only using highway mileage is not the way to figure savings. You need to use combined mpg numbers.

Also east coast diesel is expensive, so your region wouldn't see the savings others would. Although it would increase using combined mpg.

Using my local(Huntington Beach, CA) prices for Premium and Diesel, same station.

Price of premium: $4.65
Price of diesel: $5.09

Miles driven per year: 15,000

335i combined mpg : 31.0
335d combined mpg : 42.2

335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/31.0): 484
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/42.2): 355

335i total annual fuel cost (484x$4.31): $2,250.60
335d total annual fuel cost (355 x $4.99): $1806.95

Savings: $443.65/year


Basically it comes down to what your local gas and diesel prices are. Didn't use the 328i, I couldn't find a combined mpg number for it.


Not to mention the 335d is nicer to the enviroment.

Co2 Emissions (g/m):

335i - 218

335d - 177


The 335d is ~27% more fuel efficient, 31.0 mpg combined vs. 42.2 mpg combined.

335d Co2 emissions are about ~19% less.
You know, I've been a big 335d and diesel X5 supporter, so I'm interested in your numbers, and was disappointed in what my calculations showed. I do have two questions though: 1) Where did you get the combined numbers? (And what do they represent?) and 2) I was under the impression that diesels did better on the highway than in city driving; is that wrong?
335er is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST