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      07-10-2008, 07:10 AM   #1
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Thumbs up Evolve Remap 335d

Hi All,

Most who know me know that my car is already remapped. It has been running by far it's best map recently one that offers a perfect mix of power / torque and importantly driveability. From a bhp / torque figures perspective it's been rolling roaded anywhere from 260bhp at the wheels to 290bhp, depending of course which type of rolling road it's been on and how the car / rolling road have been set-up. The easiest comparison is to say that Carlos's DXB runs the same map as mine, so that gives you an idea of how well the car performs.

Anyway, I wanted to know if I already had the optimum map or whether there was any room for improvement without compromising the safety features. I contacted Sal and we had a chat about what could be done. Sal was quite honest and open and his stance was let's put the car on the rolling road to see before curves, compare this with 335d's running the Evolve maps and then decide whether there is already an improved map to install or whether a new map can be created. I was happy with this but also made it clear that I wanted the car set-up correctly on the rollers and for it not to be removed for the before and after runs, therefore all parameters remained unaltered from a set-up perspective. For me this was more important than the figures we recorded as this would show quite clearly if there were improvements in the new map. We had the car very tightly strapped down as this can effect the figures recorded, if anything we strapped it down to much not allowing any movement on the front roller, this will actually result in lower than normal figures but for me this meant consistency as it didn't allow the car to lurch forward at all under load. We did some runs afterwards in the traditional way and saw gains of 20bhp and 30lb/ft over what was recorded on the graph below.......just shows you how easy it is to get different results on the same rollers.

So with the car strapped down and all parameters set we ran the car in it's current state of tune, it recored consistent figures on both power and torque that were pretty much in keeping with most other dyno runs I've done.

Sal then analysed the graph and commented that it was definitely one of the better ones he'd seen, he overlayed it with a couple of his own 335d graphs from cars he'd already remapped, these varied from one fairly agressive map to a couple of very smooth "safe" maps which is what the customer wanted. He concluded that he could possibly improve on my map so off he went.....

Once the map was ready Sal ran the car up again on the rollers to re-establish a bench mark figure, this was consistent with earlier runs, he then uploaded the new map and immediately ran the car again, straight away there were noticeable improvements across the whole of the bhp and torque curves, he ran the car two more times to confirm the figures. Sal then asked if he could upload a couple more maps that he had to see how they perform, again these were very smooth but strong maps, one had quite a lot less torque low down than my new map, but it's peak power was a touch higher, this would result in a totally different type of power delivery if being used, but one which some drivers might actually prefer.

Here is a graph showing before and after runs, we decided to put up the lowest figures for the after run, but like I said the figures are almost irrelevant for what was trying to be achieved. It is however quite clear of the gains made with the new Evolve map over the old remap.



I've taken the car out for a decent drive this morning and can report that driveability is almost identical to the previous map, my previous map was superb and the car drove perfectly.

Importantly I've tested the car on my "private" track and can confirm that the car is noticeably quicker, in fact I was quite suprised at how much of a difference it has made (5-7/10ths sec to 100!! doesn't sound a lot but trust me it is).......and I'll state again that these cars are quicker in "D" mode than Sport or via the paddles. I am entered in Fighting Torque again this year and am confident that the car will perform even better this time.

So it's a big thumbs up for Sal and the Team at Evolve, they are clearly a growing company who in my experience have done a good job of putting the customer first. Sal also learned a bit on the day which is always good and the key to progressing. For me we now have another tuner capable of delivering the goods.

Jules.

Last edited by Jude1; 07-10-2008 at 07:46 AM.
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      07-10-2008, 07:27 AM   #2
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What a great review Jules.

The low down power of the new map is fantastic. At 2000 rpm your old map was putting out 135 bhp wheras the new one is up to about 190 bhp.

The car is now putting out about 730Nm torque - Are you sure this is ok for the autobox? Did you get any nanny mode during rolling roading?

The car is bound to feel much quicker low down in the revs.

Your have one hell of a car there now. Congrats
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      07-10-2008, 07:32 AM   #3
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Glad to see your expierience of Evolve was as good as mine

Good write up, enjoy the extra power and torque
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      07-10-2008, 07:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330cdsport View Post
What a great review Jules.

The low down power of the new map is fantastic. At 2000 rpm your old map was putting out 135 bhp wheras the new one is up to about 190 bhp.

The car is now putting out about 730Nm torque - Are you sure this is ok for the autobox? Did you get any nanny mode during rolling roading?

The car is bound to feel much quicker low down in the revs.

Your have one hell of a car there now. Congrats
Thanks.

The low down differences are deceptive as it's not easy to consistently run the auto on the rolling road, there are good gains but the graph below 2000rpm slightly exaggerates this.

The box is rated at 700Nm so with a bit of flexibility should be able to cope, the car is driven mostly on the motorway as a cruiser and doesn't really get abused, the only time it is driven in anger is when I have attended Fighting Torque / Vmax. If the car was consistently driven hard at every opportunity then there is no question that this would cause accelerated wear and tear on the box, it would also result in the box going into limp mode.

Jules.
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      07-10-2008, 07:44 AM   #5
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Superb review and write-up Jules! Enjoy your new map!
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      07-10-2008, 07:54 AM   #6
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The new map looks fantastic, Sal obviously knows his stuff.

Wonder what he could do for an ML420 CDI???
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      07-10-2008, 08:55 AM   #7
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When I was looking for a remap, I approached three different companies who all flatly refused to take it over 700nm. All three said it was very easy to take it a lot higher than 700nm, but wouldn't give any kind of guarantee that the box was capable.

Does this company know something that the others don't, about the limits of the gearbox?
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      07-10-2008, 09:03 AM   #8
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Like I said the figures are purely for comparison, they may not actually be correct.

Remember also this map is specifically for my car for Fighting Torque, it's what I wanted, I have the option of reverting back to my last map if I want to. Evolve also offer around 5 other types of maps for customers ranging from 600Nm upto 700Nm.

Have a look at an earlier thread on this site, it features 2 or 3 well known Tuners, all cars on that particular RR Day had either 700Nm or more.

Jules.

Last edited by Jude1; 07-10-2008 at 09:58 AM.
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      07-10-2008, 09:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jude1 View Post
Like I said the figures are purely for comparison, they may not actually be correct.

Have a look at an earlier thread on this site, it features 2 or 3 well known Tuners, all cars on that particular RR Day had either 700Nm or more.
Fair enough, but to go from a mapped 335 that gives 340ftlb of torque at 2000 revs up to 500ftlb at 2000rpm is a heck of a claim.

I would have thought the power curve would have started at the same point on the graph.

Anyway, enough of the pap. What's this fighting torque thing ? It sounds interesting. Is it open to anyone, or is a club type of thing?
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      07-10-2008, 10:03 AM   #10
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Smiffy... You've mixed up your BHP and Torque.. Its only gone up about 11 BHP and 30 Ft Lbs...
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      07-10-2008, 10:06 AM   #11
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wait am I seeing this correctly and pardon my ignorance to the 335 diesel as it is not here in the US but you are getting 343HP??? what the TQ??? and can I just say HOLY SHIT!!! WOW got me thinking now
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      07-10-2008, 10:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiffy335 View Post
Fair enough, but to go from a mapped 335 that gives 340ftlb of torque at 2000 revs up to 500ftlb at 2000rpm is a heck of a claim.

I would have thought the power curve would have started at the same point on the graph.

Anyway, enough of the pap. What's this fighting torque thing ? It sounds interesting. Is it open to anyone, or is a club type of thing?
Like I said in an earlier reply, it is very difficult to run an auto on the rolling road, so the graphs below say 2000 / 2250rpm may not be that reflective of what is actually there. On a standard version such as yours you already have 428lb/ft at 1700rpm, so it's fair to say that on both of these curves they both have inxs of this figure but it's not necessarily reflected on the graphs.

Fighting Torque - www.fightingtorque.org is an Open event for anyone to apply for but selection is not guaranteed. This years event is over a mile straight where 1/4 mile, 1 mile and terminal speeds will be captured. It is limitered to 100 cars which should cover most marques, but is aimed at Supercars, but with a section for mildly modified "normal" cars.

Jules.
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      07-10-2008, 10:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedoutbimmer View Post
wait am I seeing this correctly and pardon my ignorance to the 335 diesel as it is not here in the US but you are getting 343HP??? what the TQ??? and can I just say HOLY SHIT!!! WOW got me thinking now

Yes you see correctly, real world figure is inxs of 350bhp and torque around 730Nm (540-550lb/ft). Safe maps are probably more realistic at around 330bhp and 700Nm.

Jules.
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      07-10-2008, 10:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcook View Post
Smiffy... You've mixed up your BHP and Torque.. Its only gone up about 11 BHP and 30 Ft Lbs...
Are you sure. I thought the two top lines were torque. It looks to me like the power gain at 2k is 160ftlb. That's what I can't get my head around.

I like the sound of the fighting torque event though. What sort of speed to you reckon you can get in a mapped 335d over a flying quarter?

I think I might just give it a look

Edit. I have just read Jules explanation re the auto box.
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      07-10-2008, 10:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiffy335 View Post
I like the sound of the fighting torque event though. What sort of speed to you reckon you can get in a mapped 335d over a flying quarter?

I think I might just give it a look

Edit. I have just read Jules explanation re the auto box.
Well Carlos has done around 105mph over the 1/4 so anything inxs of that would be a bonus.

Jules.

ps good that you now understand the curves, for the graph above it's fair to assume that it is spot on from 2250rpm, if it was a manual box you'd see accurate figs from around 1000rpm.
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      07-10-2008, 10:49 AM   #16
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Carl will know 1/4 mile of remapped 335d
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      07-10-2008, 10:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booforty View Post
Carl will know 1/4 mile of remapped 335d
Just checked Carl's sig and it says 13.5secs@105mph.
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      07-10-2008, 10:56 AM   #18
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Hi Jules,

nice write up.

This is probably the first time any of you have seen 335d graphs with flywheel figures.

Normally you'll see wheel power vs wheel torque.

The reason this has been done is because we cannot show wheel torque without taking the software out of shoot out mode. This is just the way the new software is. When the dyno comes out of shootout mode we also lose the various different temperatures which are displayed on the graphs. Without these a Dyno Dynamics print out is worthless.

The exercise here was to see the difference in one map to another with the car setup up in exactly the same way.

We also tried a different setup strategy on the dyno which allowed the car to climb the front rollers a little. Again, the different in the curves was there but the difference was slightly more.

The graphs that Jules has posted are those where the car is strapped ito the dyno quite hard and not allowing any movement on the dyno.

When the cars are strapped like this the power/torque does not drop off dramatically after approx 4000rpm.

If the car is allowed to even climb the front rollers slightly then the power/torque drops off dramatically.

I should point out there is no inbetween either.

We had a look at how the cars were run on the Surrey Rolling Road dyno day and we can see that the power drops off at approx 4000-4500rpm on all of the graphs. The cars are being allowed to climb slightly.

Jules's car made 282bhp at the wheels with this second method....which is pretty much the same as what other cars with the same map made on the Surrey Rolling Road graph with the same shape of graph.

With the car setup in the exact same way, with our map it made 302bhp at the wheels.

When Jules says we learnt something he wasn't wrong!

We personally felt that these cars need to be strapped down hard as it gave what we thought was a more realistic (lower) figure and smoother and more realistic graphs which reflects the true natural power delivery of this engine.

The simple fact is that these engines do not fall off in power over 4000rpm in the real world.

This is backed up by Hartge's own dyno graphs (who's remaps we also supply) they also are consistent with the first method of strapping where power does not dramatically fall.

Therefore, please find below the graphs of Jules's car dynoed in the same way as Surrey Rolling Road and this time with power at the wheels vs torque at the wheels. We've done this just to give you something to compare with on the same playing field.

Do not give too much attention the torque 'figures'. The torque is a calculation of BHP and rpm's. If the rpm's are even slightly different to actual then this affects the torque quite alot.

The main point of the exercise was to see the difference of two maps with the car setup in exactly the same way.


Last edited by Sal@Evolve; 07-10-2008 at 01:18 PM.
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      07-10-2008, 11:02 AM   #19
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so great fuel economy and crazy power? hmm 335D here I come
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      07-10-2008, 11:16 AM   #20
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I'd love to try a remapped 335d.
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      07-10-2008, 11:55 AM   #21
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Also,

The reason why there is so much torque at the low end is because we are getting the turbo's to boost ever so slightly earlier.

Jules mentioned a map which had less torque and more BHP. That gives almost identical torque to his origional map (still boosts eariler) and makes a minimum of 15-20bhp above his origional once over 3500rpm.
This map will be going on an E90 post members car later this month.

With some help of the E90post members (especially Jules) we have had the chance to have a few 335d's on the dyno and have 3 different types of main maps:

1) 330 bhp / 650 Nm
2) 355 bhp / 700 Nm
3) 340 bhp / 730 Nm (<< Jules Map)

We can create more variations but this should cover most people's needs.

Just to point out, there are loads of 730Nm mapped cars over in Germany and Italy which have been running faultlessly for many thousands of miles and driven very hard.
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      07-10-2008, 12:12 PM   #22
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Sal,

should your no.2 map read 335bhp and not 355bhp?

Jules.
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