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      07-23-2009, 01:07 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
My guess is that suppliers like Tyco, CWB, and even Molex have strict contracts with BMW for most of their connectors. For example, for three years I have been trying to order from Tyco the HiFi OEM amp using the P/N printed in it to create a harness to no avail: their response has been that "only BMW can order this part". I have tried to even get individual pins from those OEM connectors and their answer is no, I have to buy whole harnesses from them in a minimum quantity of 1000 pieces.

Yeah, right.
Well in all fairness, BMW did have to front additional costs for the custom connector(s), harness, etc. AMP/Tyco, Samtec, Phoenix, Molex, etc its all the same story. I cant begrudge them adding their (BMW) own cost to purchase the harness through them, provided they actually do let you purchase it.

As for minimum qty, if you only need 1 or 2 sometimes its easier going through a FE or local sales rep to get you a sample, but in all likelyhood they (the connector manufc) wont have them in stock. That tends to be the motive behind minimum orders.
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      07-23-2009, 01:27 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
My build date is Feb-2008, US model. This was going to be my plan of attack.
1A. Purchase the GSM TCU and install it with the old iDrive. Confirm that it works with BMW Assist.
1B. Enable the Online BMW and Connected Drive features through vehicle coding. I think I have the equipment to do this from Bavarian Technic. At least, that's my hope. If not, I know somebody with AutoLogic.
2. Install the new iDrive controller. Confirm that it works with the new TCU and iDrive.
3. Install the new CiC 09 iDrive.

I'm not terribly worried about the USB connectivity of the CiC because that's not a deal-killer for me. I don't understand why you tried to go to Tyco or Molex to purchase the connector, when it has a BMW part number and it would appear you could just pay the $30 and buy it directly from BMW.
So far it looks like you will be able to do 1B only if you achieve successfully 1A, as one member here apparently activated the Connected Drive feature in his USA GSM TCU -it has been available in Canada since 04/08 with the "old" iDrive but not in the USA until 09/08 with the new iDrive.

Plan 2 also depends of what is needed to perform in step 1A. If swapping the TCU requires a new iDrive code version and it works then the new controller may work if at the end is proven that it is the GSM TCU the issue that does not allow the new controller to work with the "old" iDrive.

The USB connection is needed if you want to download songs in the HDD thru memory sticks, but if you are not interested in that then is no biggie as you can import songs using CDs. The US maps can be downloaded into the HDD as well by DVD's. Most probably I will have the P/N of this cable anyways by the end of next month, so this is a non-issue.

If you can get all this to work then you will be set to whatever retrofit method is discovered to install the new iDrive in a pre-MY2009 M3.

The P/N in the OEM HiFi amp connector is a Tyco P/N, not a BMW part. It is not available at the dealer level, only at depo/repair/exchange level. Even the pins in that connector are proprietary.
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      07-23-2009, 02:36 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I forgot to mention, there's apparently four different GSM TCU's. Two are labeled GSM-US and the other two simply GSM. I'm not sure what the differences may be.

GSM/US - 84109181276 (new)
GSM/US - 84109193856 (remanufactured)
GSM - 84109206422
GSM - 84109216364

Regarding the USB connector, you're saying this part number '61133333333' is a Tyco part number not a BMW part number -- correct? Why would it appear in the BMW catalog and have a price as well?
That "P/N" is a generic code (plug housing on request) to order a particular connector, and is used jointly with the P/N of the original part which this connector plugs in when ordered. You can notice that the same "61133333333" is shown in different connector applications.

The OEM amp connector that I'm talking about is the male connector at the amp itself, not the female connector at the car audio harness. That's the reason that there is no BMW P/N for it as this is part of the OEM amp itself, so I have to contact Tyco directly as the P/N printed is from them. BMW does not sell individual parts of this OEM amp.

I would say that the TCU that applies to us is the GSM/US, not because it just says so but it looks that Canadian TCUs are managed by a different cell carrier than the USA. My TCU label says GSM/US...
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      07-23-2009, 03:13 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
IMO, the difference between retrofitting the new iDrive and the new GSM TCU is that the GSM TCU is more intrusive/inclusive than the CDMA TCU from the point of view of the iDrive. The Google Search and the Stocks/Gas Prices/Weather display features of the new iDrive are possible thru the GSM TCU by just subscribing to the Convenience Plan. No coding/trip to the dealer is required, you pay $200 right now and within minutes you got all those features in your MY2009 iDrive screen.

The CDMA TCU -as far as I know- does not send any interactive display to the iDrive other than its basic data.

Then there's the issue of a possible change of iDrive/GSM TCU coding between 03/08 and 04/08 production, when the CDMA TCU was replaced by the GSM version. The new iDrive controller that I retrofitted in the "old" iDrive without any issues into my 05/08 production M3 is not working at all in pre-04/08 production M3: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280901

However, in the same thread there is an Australian 09/07 production M3 that the same new iDrive controller worked without any issues with the "old" iDrive... the difference is that its TCU is GSM -it has never been CDMA outside the USA.

Thus, I assuming that there must be some markedly different software running between the GSM TCU/"old" iDrive and the CDMA TCU/"old" iDrive that doesn't even allow the new controller to be backwards compatible. So swapping TCUs not necessarily would have to follow my theory of the Vehicle Order supporting a swap of iDrive components as some other coding will be required.
This is a good point. We won't know until someone tries. That said, I'm not yet convinced that the controller not working wasn't due to a SOFTWARE mismatch and not hardware. I am only aware of one person that tried it with a pre 4/08 iDrive (and said it didn't work). It is possible that it is simply because he had old software that didn't understand the signals from the system, not necessarily a hardware change. It may be that it worked on yours simply by virtue of the fact that you have newer software as a result of the newer hardware. Tough to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
My build date is Feb-2008, US model. This was going to be my plan of attack.
1A. Purchase the GSM TCU and install it with the old iDrive. Confirm that it works with BMW Assist.
1B. Enable the Online BMW and Connected Drive features through vehicle coding. I think I have the equipment to do this from Bavarian Technic. At least, that's my hope. If not, I know somebody with AutoLogic.
2. Install the new iDrive controller. Confirm that it works with the new TCU and iDrive.
3. Install the new CiC 09 iDrive.

I'm not terribly worried about the USB connectivity of the CiC because that's not a deal-killer for me. I don't understand why you tried to go to Tyco or Molex to purchase the connector, when it has a BMW part number and it would appear you could just pay the $30 and buy it directly from BMW.
Theoretically, that will work, assuming you can code it. To my knowledge, the BT tool will NOT do this, and I doubt the Autologic will either, without some special scripting, but maybe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I forgot to mention, there's apparently four different GSM TCU's. Two are labeled GSM-US and the other two simply GSM. I'm not sure what the differences may be.

GSM/US - 84109181276
GSM/US - 84109193856
GSM - 84109206422
GSM - 84109216364

Regarding the USB connector, you're saying this part number '61133333333' is a Tyco part number not a BMW part number -- correct? Why would it appear in the BMW catalog and have a price as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That "P/N" is a generic code (plug housing on request) to order a particular connector, and is used jointly with the P/N of the original part which this connector plugs in when ordered. You can notice that the same "61133333333" is shown in different connector applications.

The OEM amp connector that I'm talking about is the male connector at the amp itself, not the female connector at the car audio harness. That's the reason that there is no BMW P/N for it as this is part of the OEM amp itself, so I have to contact Tyco directly as the P/N printed is from them. BMW does not sell individual parts of this OEM amp.

I would say that the TCU that applies to us is the GSM/US, not because it just says so but it looks that Canadian TCUs are managed by a different cell carrier than the USA. My TCU label says GSM/US...
If there's any way it will work, it will be with the GSM/US one. If you're saying your US car came with a GSM/US TCU installed from the factory, then there is good hope for us.

Having said all of that, the real question is how the TCU comes. Does it come with a SIM card? Is it activated? Does BMW need to associate it to your account? All of those things are important. Coding it to the car shouldn't be hard, it's getting BMW to associate it to your vehicle that I'm unsure about. It may just be that it comes activated and talks to the BMW server with it's VIN, in which case it's likely nothing would need to be done. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

Trial and error is the only good way to figure this out...
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      07-23-2009, 04:16 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
This is a good point. We won't know until someone tries. That said, I'm not yet convinced that the controller not working wasn't due to a SOFTWARE mismatch and not hardware. I am only aware of one person that tried it with a pre 4/08 iDrive (and said it didn't work). It is possible that it is simply because he had old software that didn't understand the signals from the system, not necessarily a hardware change. It may be that it worked on yours simply by virtue of the fact that you have newer software as a result of the newer hardware. Tough to tell.
I think that we are talking about the same thing, this new controller backward compatibility issue is a software mismatch, however it could be an intrinsic hardware mismatch as well as the software needed to make this new controller backward compatible could require the GSM/TCU installed for the proper iDrive software to be installed.

It is my understanding that when you get your car programmed, Progman/ISTA/P looks for particular components by P/N database and then decides the software version to be installed. According to the OP of the thread linked with the controller problem, his dealer tried upgrading the iDrive firmware several times to no avail... the new controller still did not work with the "old" iDrive.

Thus is could be very possible that the CDMA TCU has to be swapped first with the GSM TCU, the iDrive re-programmed with the version that supports this TCU and then the new controller should work.

Too many "coulds and possibles", but you get my drift.... .

Quote:
If there's any way it will work, it will be with the GSM/US one. If you're saying your US car came with a GSM/US TCU installed from the factory, then there is good hope for us.
My M3 is production 05/08 and has the GSM TCU.

Quote:
Having said all of that, the real question is how the TCU comes. Does it come with a SIM card? Is it activated? Does BMW need to associate it to your account? All of those things are important. Coding it to the car shouldn't be hard, it's getting BMW to associate it to your vehicle that I'm unsure about. It may just be that it comes activated and talks to the BMW server with it's VIN, in which case it's likely nothing would need to be done. Otherwise, I'm not so sure.

Trial and error is the only good way to figure this out...
No SIM card in the GSM/US TCU, at least not a removable one from the exterior.

What could be done -and pretty quick and simple- is a swap between installed TCUs to see what could happen. In other words, take a MY2008 with a CDMA TCU and a MY2008 with a GSM/US TCU, unplug the respective TCUs and install them in the opposite car.

Then sit down and watch what will happen after turning the car on...
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      07-23-2009, 04:17 PM   #204
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I have an official print out of my car's history from BMW. Ironically, it is stamped confidential and shouldn't be shared. It lists my TCU IMEI number and status (ACTIVE). If the TCU has a SIM card, then swapping it will also swap the IMEI and should be plug/play. If it doesn't have an actual SIM card, then there must be some swap instructions, much like the CiC swap instructions that give directions for switching to the new IMEI number.
I got that document too...
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      07-23-2009, 05:37 PM   #205
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So which of the two GSM/US TCU's would be the correct one to order?
Those two P/N combined were superseded by the single P/N 84109206422 (remanufactured), $322.87 after turning your TCU in.

So it is simpler now...
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      07-23-2009, 06:40 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I have an official print out of my car's history from BMW. Ironically, it is stamped confidential and shouldn't be shared. It lists my TCU IMEI number and status (ACTIVE). If the TCU has a SIM card, then swapping it will also swap the IMEI and should be plug/play. If it doesn't have an actual SIM card, then there must be some swap instructions, much like the CiC swap instructions that give directions for switching to the new IMEI number.
Unfortunately that's not how IMEI's work. They are unique to each cellular radio. Further, ALL GSM radios have a SIM card. Doesn't necessarily mean it is user serviceable, but it's there. Further still, CDMA radios do NOT use SIM cars, and although they do have IMEI's, the function is much different from GSM radios. In other words, the IMEI will NOT transfer over.

That said, it's very possible that the modem comes activated under a special BMW account, and its also possible that it sends the VIN info with any contact requests. If this is the case, they probably don't need to re-enter any info into their database, as the modem would not be associated with a car. If it is, it's much trickier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I think that we are talking about the same thing, this new controller backward compatibility issue is a software mismatch, however it could be an intrinsic hardware mismatch as well as the software needed to make this new controller backward compatible could require the GSM/TCU installed for the proper iDrive software to be installed.

It is my understanding that when you get your car programmed, Progman/ISTA/P looks for particular components by P/N database and then decides the software version to be installed. According to the OP of the thread linked with the controller problem, his dealer tried upgrading the iDrive firmware several times to no avail... the new controller still did not work with the "old" iDrive.

Thus is could be very possible that the CDMA TCU has to be swapped first with the GSM TCU, the iDrive re-programmed with the version that supports this TCU and then the new controller should work.

Too many "coulds and possibles", but you get my drift.... .



My M3 is production 05/08 and has the GSM TCU.



No SIM card in the GSM/US TCU, at least not a removable one from the exterior.

What could be done -and pretty quick and simple- is a swap between installed TCUs to see what could happen. In other words, take a MY2008 with a CDMA TCU and a MY2008 with a GSM/US TCU, unplug the respective TCUs and install them in the opposite car.

Then sit down and watch what will happen after turning the car on...
I think you could be very right. It's just one of those things we can't really know without experimenting. However, since your M3 came with a US GSM radio, I'd say there's hope. It's definitely worth a shot.

Although I will say that your test unfortunately won't work. There is a variable that needs to be set in the CCCAPPL that tells it to look for a GSM TCU. Then you need to set a similar variable for BMW Online. Only after that will it search for a GSM TCU.
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      07-26-2009, 05:29 PM   #207
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Way too confusing....
Since i've been following and mildly posting on this thread since the beginning i'll go ahead and ask how's it looking?
I can definitely see that there's been some improvement but are we anywhere close to making this a reality?
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      07-26-2009, 07:04 PM   #208
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Way too confusing....
Since i've been following and mildly posting on this thread since the beginning i'll go ahead and ask how's it looking?
I can definitely see that there's been some improvement but are we anywhere close to making this a reality?
My order of the HD screen/CIC cable and the glovebox USB socket is in backorder (expected); no USB cable P/N is known yet. Without these cables there is no way that anybody can buy the rest of the parts to even try to see if they at least turn on when connected, much less to ask for the FSC codes.
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      07-26-2009, 09:06 PM   #209
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My order of the HD screen/CIC cable and the glovebox USB socket is in backorder (expected); no USB cable P/N is known yet. Without these cables there is no way that anybody can buy the rest of the parts to even try to see if they at least turn on when connected, much less to ask for the FSC codes.
Awesome, keep us updated!
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      07-27-2009, 02:21 AM   #210
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My order of the HD screen/CIC cable and the glovebox USB socket is in backorder (expected); no USB cable P/N is known yet. Without these cables there is no way that anybody can buy the rest of the parts to even try to see if they at least turn on when connected, much less to ask for the FSC codes.
Hey Technic-

Without having actually seen the back of a CIC unit in real life, is the LVDS cable just a Fakra cable with a different locking connector on it? I've seen a few different pix of the back CIC connectors - the LVDS, ethernet, and USB connectors all look the same (all 2-wire? - is that possible?) I know the LVDS is "special" because of the shielding, but at heart according the the docs it is just a 2-wire cable. I'm wondering for "testing" purposes if a fakra cable with the plastic connector removed will plug in?!

...just a thought..
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      07-27-2009, 06:44 AM   #211
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Hey Technic-

Without having actually seen the back of a CIC unit in real life, is the LVDS cable just a Fakra cable with a different locking connector on it? I've seen a few different pix of the back CIC connectors - the LVDS, ethernet, and USB connectors all look the same (all 2-wire? - is that possible?) I know the LVDS is "special" because of the shielding, but at heart according the the docs it is just a 2-wire cable. I'm wondering for "testing" purposes if a fakra cable with the plastic connector removed will plug in?!

...just a thought..
Most probably a SMB connector will plug in, but there is no rush of getting parts as long as BMW is charging $1000 in core charges, so I can wait for the real cable. One thing though... between the two cables at least I ordered the most important one, the monitor cable. The USB cable is not that critical and can wait, as least for testing purposes.

At least I would like to get an used monitor cheap, that's the most expensive part if bought new ($2000). The CIC could be used as well, but my idea is to buy it new at the dealer so the CIC will come "clean" from any other programming and thus I can officially request the FSC codes without any arguments -like, no FSC codes because it is an used CIC, or simply that I will need a refurbished CIC from the dealer anyways to obtain the FSC codes. Unless I can get a CIC for less than $500 there is no point in getting one used.

Something tells me that this retrofit will work like yours did, some programming here and there and that's it. But definitely I need to get the FSC codes...
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      08-01-2009, 11:10 AM   #212
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1A. Purchase the GSM TCU and install it with the old iDrive. Confirm that it works with BMW Assist.
That won't work because ATX' systems are VIN driven and your VIN won't match the phone number for the GSM TCU (if you can even get a number provisioned, which I doubt).


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Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
1B. Enable the Online BMW and Connected Drive features through vehicle coding. I think I have the equipment to do this from Bavarian Technic. At least, that's my hope. If not, I know somebody with AutoLogic.
Won't work for reasons cited above.
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2. Install the new iDrive controller. Confirm that it works with the new TCU and iDrive.
Controller should work with CCC-based iDrive. The new controller was used in production models with the CCC-based iDrive incidentally.
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3. Install the new CiC 09 iDrive.
This won't work in a car that came with CCC-based iDrive. I cited the reasons for this much earlier in the thread.
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      08-02-2009, 10:19 PM   #213
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That won't work because ATX' systems are VIN driven and your VIN won't match the phone number for the GSM TCU (if you can even get a number provisioned, which I doubt).



Won't work for reasons cited above.
Controller should work with CCC-based iDrive. The new controller was used in production models with the CCC-based iDrive incidentally.
This won't work in a car that came with CCC-based iDrive. I cited the reasons for this much earlier in the thread.

So this is a lost cause?
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      08-02-2009, 10:51 PM   #214
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So this is a lost cause?
More or less, yes. There is always a slight chance that there might be a way of circumventing one or two things here but as BMW has tied what works in a car more and more closely to the VIN as the years have gone by, ...
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      08-03-2009, 11:03 AM   #215
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So this is a lost cause?
I would not say that this is a lost cause... just yet.

Remember that Booster4075 retrofitted an iDrive to a non-iDrive E90, that he switched a HiFi output to a Top HiFi output in a CCC, that he changed the Vehicle Order of his E90 and that he obtained a set of FSC codes from BMW itself.

If you ask your local dealer right now they will tell you that all those changes and retrofits are impossible. Yet they were all accomplished and are fully functional in Booster4075 E90.

Can this be replicated with a CIC iDrive? The fact of the matter is that the main issue here is obtaining FSC codes for a non-CIC VIN. Technically, it should not be any other architectural/design issue blocking this swap and swapping is always simpler than a full retrofit.

Sooner or later somebody -I hope that CIC salvage parts will show up in a couple of months for sale- will try to swap components and then we will all finally know for sure how that went.
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      08-03-2009, 11:29 AM   #216
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If I was told there is not a repair/replacement procedure to code the new GSM TCU into a car that already has the same thing, I wouldn't believe it. Your message implies that the TCU cannot be replaced once it fails. I'm sorry, I don't believe that. While it may actually be impossible to replace the CDMA TCU with a GSM TCU, I don't think it's for the reasons you cited because it would seem that the same GSM TCU replacement procudure could be run on the older car.
Not meaning to imply that. What I am saying is that ATX won't recognize it so it won't work with Assist. Of course, if the dealer were to do it, they would presumably have a procedure to move the TCU's number or whatever codes are needed (IMEI?), through ATX.


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Then how do you explain the Russian guys who have made this work -- and the pictures of it working?
Did I miss this? Please point to it - thanks!
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      08-03-2009, 11:30 AM   #217
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Did I miss this? Please point to it - thanks!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=156
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      08-05-2009, 07:37 AM   #218
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Russian guys updated Navi and Gracenote by themselves, made DVD to play fullscreen

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      08-05-2009, 05:01 PM   #219
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Russian guys updated Navi and Gracenote by themselves, made DVD to play fullscreen

Do you know for a fact if somebody in Russia actually retrofitted an '09 iDrive into a '08-and-before 3-Series/M3?

What I read in that forum of yours does not say so explicitly, only shows the photo of the CIC/screen being on in the workbench. So the only thing that I can get out of it is that somebody either cracked the FSC codes or simply that as long as there is no physical connection of the CIC to the car (to verify VIN and FSC codes compatibility) it will turn on with 12V power.
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      08-06-2009, 07:51 AM   #220
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Do you know for a fact if somebody in Russia actually retrofitted an '09 iDrive into a '08-and-before 3-Series/M3?
As far as I know - not yet, at least commercially. It's quite possible that they tried it on their own cars.

I am still looking for my own '07 335i, I will talk with them more precisely when I will get it. I am planning to buy hardware form them and get their help on installing the set. Let's see : )
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