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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > ConnectedDrive / I-Drive / Navigation Related Discussion > Next GEN I-DRIVE Retrofit



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      09-14-2009, 06:31 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
You're probably going to want to change the Vehicle Order (FA) regardless for a 100% solid install (assuming the CIC carries a different option code). Otherwise, if your car ever gets a software upgrade, things may stop working again until the CIC is recoded. As long as the FA is aligned with what you have in there, everything will work even after reprogrammed.
The idea is to keep the current iDrive and swap as needed... I don't want to risk a change of VO and then having issues with other modules popping up.
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      09-14-2009, 06:53 PM   #332
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The idea is to keep the current iDrive and swap as needed... I don't want to risk a change of VO and then having issues with other modules popping up.
It won't hurt anything. ISTA/P just uses the FA to correctly code all the options into each individual module. This is exactly why Long's CIC isn't outputting audio correctly. If he has the car recoded (not even reprogrammed) the CIC will pick up the correct options and output the sound correctly. He can actually get away with just recoding the CIC, but that requires some fancier tools his dealership won't have.

If you're changing things on your car, it's best to update the FA/VO to reflect that. That way everything will be coded correctly, and you're most likely to have everything 100% operational -- that is 100% of functions that don't require the FSC code (nav, SVS, etc).

Anyway, I'm really psyched by all the progress you guys are making! Let me know if I can help along the way, and you both need to keep us updated!
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      09-14-2009, 08:22 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
It won't hurt anything. ISTA/P just uses the FA to correctly code all the options into each individual module. This is exactly why Long's CIC isn't outputting audio correctly. If he has the car recoded (not even reprogrammed) the CIC will pick up the correct options and output the sound correctly. He can actually get away with just recoding the CIC, but that requires some fancier tools his dealership won't have.

If you're changing things on your car, it's best to update the FA/VO to reflect that. That way everything will be coded correctly, and you're most likely to have everything 100% operational -- that is 100% of functions that don't require the FSC code (nav, SVS, etc).

Anyway, I'm really psyched by all the progress you guys are making! Let me know if I can help along the way, and you both need to keep us updated!
That's not quite correct... Long's car is coded correctly, the CIC is not just because it is coded for the donor car. Changing Long's car VO to HiFi (676) and removing the Top HiFi (752) will not do anything for the CIC, as it is already coded for 676 from the donor's car; those outputs are ready available right now. And changing the VO will not enable the Nav or the Voice Activation either.

What is needed is either somehow blanking out this CIC and then getting the proper Long's VIN FSC or simply directly overwriting the current FSC from the donor's car with Long's VIN FSC if this is even possible (I think that it is but I think also that BMW will not want to go that route and facilitate the issue of FSC for used CIC as it could unwillingly "motivate" the robbery of Navigation computers for retrofit and swaps sales).

For reference: in the case of Booster4075 complete retrofit a change of VO was required as his car did not have the Nav 609 code in his VO obviously. And that change of VO did in fact change the output of his used CCC from HiFi to Top HiFi, but that was the nature of the retrofit and not of a swap. And still his CCC required a set of FSC to enable the Voice Activation 620; the CCC does not require a set of FSC to enable Nav, it is only for Voice Activation.

This is not applicable here... this donor CIC requires the FSC of Long's car VIN for then identify which options it needs to properly communicate with in his car. Right now this donor CIC should be able to communicate straight with the Long's Assist and iPod only, as these are the only common options between the donor's car and Long's. If Long retrofitted the Sirius tuner in his car then it will show up in the HD screen, as it was part of the factory options in the donor's car. But the HiFi coding stays because that was the factory option in the donor's car.
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      09-15-2009, 01:19 AM   #334
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i think i'm going to order the new CIC. i have a feeling this will work. i was going to install the unit and let it sit, but i forgot i do not have the right cable to install the unit.
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      09-15-2009, 01:21 AM   #335
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i think i'm going to order the new CIC.
Nice!
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      09-15-2009, 06:17 AM   #336
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i think i'm going to order the new CIC.
Just make sure before ordering that you will have some assurance from your dealer that at least they are going to work with you and with whoever in BMWNA will authorize and prepare those FSC. If not you will be back to square one.

I also sure that it will work, but definitely it will not be plug 'n play.
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      09-15-2009, 06:58 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That's not quite correct... Long's car is coded correctly, the CIC is not just because it is coded for the donor car. Changing Long's car VO to HiFi (676) and removing the Top HiFi (752) will not do anything for the CIC, as it is already coded for 676 from the donor's car; those outputs are ready available right now. And changing the VO will not enable the Nav or the Voice Activation either.

What is needed is either somehow blanking out this CIC and then getting the proper Long's VIN FSC or simply directly overwriting the current FSC from the donor's car with Long's VIN FSC if this is even possible (I think that it is but I think also that BMW will not want to go that route and facilitate the issue of FSC for used CIC as it could unwillingly "motivate" the robbery of Navigation computers for retrofit and swaps sales).

For reference: in the case of Booster4075 complete retrofit a change of VO was required as his car did not have the Nav 609 code in his VO obviously. And that change of VO did in fact change the output of his used CCC from HiFi to Top HiFi, but that was the nature of the retrofit and not of a swap. And still his CCC required a set of FSC to enable the Voice Activation 620; the CCC does not require a set of FSC to enable Nav, it is only for Voice Activation.

This is not applicable here... this donor CIC requires the FSC of Long's car VIN for then identify which options it needs to properly communicate with in his car. Right now this donor CIC should be able to communicate straight with the Long's Assist and iPod only, as these are the only common options between the donor's car and Long's. If Long retrofitted the Sirius tuner in his car then it will show up in the HD screen, as it was part of the factory options in the donor's car. But the HiFi coding stays because that was the factory option in the donor's car.
I didn't say Long's VO needed to be changed. I said the car needed to be recoded. Right now all of the modules in his car are correctly coded except the CIC. If the car was recoded, the CIC would also become correctly coded, as the 752 option would be read and a few flags (in this case, "AUDIO_SYSTEM") in the coding data would be changed to reflect the car's configuration. However, since ISTA/P likely wouldn't even look for the CIC without that option being in the VO as well, he may need to change it after all assuming the CIC has a different option code than the CCC did. After that it would be coded as usual.

The other option is to directly code JUST the CIC, which can be done, but not at the dealer.

The FSC is a whole different battle for which I don't have an easy solution. I think you may be right, it will probably have to be ordered from the dealer. Last I checked, the thought is that the CCC (or CIC in this case) is actually given a certificate and asked to perform the validation DURING the coding, so there's no good way to "fudge" it. No easy way, at least.

As for the last part, the FSC does not control what the CIC talks to. That is the coding data. For instance, in a CCC car, whether or not you have HD radio is an option. It's called "IBOC" and if you don't have it, the flag is set to inactive. It's very easy to set this to active, but it has nothing to do with the FSC. Unless they've changed the whole coding structure with the CIC, the FSC should only be used to activate navigation and maybe SVS.
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      09-15-2009, 07:37 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
I didn't say Long's VO needed to be changed. I said the car needed to be recoded. Right now all of the modules in his car are correctly coded except the CIC. If the car was recoded, the CIC would also become correctly coded, as the 752 option would be read and a few flags (in this case, "AUDIO_SYSTEM") in the coding data would be changed to reflect the car's configuration. However, since ISTA/P likely wouldn't even look for the CIC without that option being in the VO as well, he may need to change it after all assuming the CIC has a different option code than the CCC did. After that it would be coded as usual.

The other option is to directly code JUST the CIC, which can be done, but not at the dealer.

The FSC is a whole different battle for which I don't have an easy solution. I think you may be right, it will probably have to be ordered from the dealer. Last I checked, the thought is that the CCC (or CIC in this case) is actually given a certificate and asked to perform the validation DURING the coding, so there's no good way to "fudge" it. No easy way, at least.

As for the last part, the FSC does not control what the CIC talks to. That is the coding data. For instance, in a CCC car, whether or not you have HD radio is an option. It's called "IBOC" and if you don't have it, the flag is set to inactive. It's very easy to set this to active, but it has nothing to do with the FSC. Unless they've changed the whole coding structure with the CIC, the FSC should only be used to activate navigation and maybe SVS.
Understood, however in this particular case to recode the car requires that this CIC P/N be recognized as part of this VIN VO to then code the CIC to the car's VO. Although 609 is the code for Navigation in the VO -regardless if it is CCC or CIC- ISTA/P will not recode the car and much less that CIC because of this "strange" P/N found when going thru the module P/N verification process. So the recoding will fail not because of the VO code, but because of the P/N related to that code. The VO will have to be changed to "register" that CIC P/N into that 609 code, IMO.

That's what I don't want to do unless there are some guarantees that it will not mess something else up down the line.

There's already one documented recoding failure in the M3Post forum due to the car in question having the new controller installed with the old iDrive.

I will try to see first if by just getting these FSC I will make a new CIC to "talk" to my audio options -on top of the NAV and Voice enable- without any VO change. If what you are saying about the FSC not doing anything else but enabling the Nav and Voice ends up being correct then I will decide what to do next...
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      09-15-2009, 03:35 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Understood, however in this particular case to recode the car requires that this CIC P/N be recognized as part of this VIN VO to then code the CIC to the car's VO. Although 609 is the code for Navigation in the VO -regardless if it is CCC or CIC- ISTA/P will not recode the car and much less that CIC because of this "strange" P/N found when going thru the module P/N verification process. So the recoding will fail not because of the VO code, but because of the P/N related to that code. The VO will have to be changed to "register" that CIC P/N into that 609 code, IMO.

That's what I don't want to do unless there are some guarantees that it will not mess something else up down the line.

There's already one documented recoding failure in the M3Post forum due to the car in question having the new controller installed with the old iDrive.

I will try to see first if by just getting these FSC I will make a new CIC to "talk" to my audio options -on top of the NAV and Voice enable- without any VO change. If what you are saying about the FSC not doing anything else but enabling the Nav and Voice ends up being correct then I will decide what to do next...
Makes sense, and frankly I didn't think of that. I'm surprised the CIC doesn't have a separate option code.

That said, the VO is a very simple list of option codes, no part numbers are involved. That's all on the progman/ISTA/P side. Still, you may be right, based upon the build date it may get confused when it sees a CIC.

Time to experiment!

As I said earlier - good luck! And please keep us updated!
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      09-15-2009, 08:48 PM   #340
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for some reason i plug the setup back in and the monitor does not work now.
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      09-20-2009, 02:06 AM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
Makes sense, and frankly I didn't think of that. I'm surprised the CIC doesn't have a separate option code.

That said, the VO is a very simple list of option codes, no part numbers are involved. That's all on the progman/ISTA/P side. Still, you may be right, based upon the build date it may get confused when it sees a CIC.

Time to experiment!

As I said earlier - good luck! And please keep us updated!
I support you! I think that once the car will be reprogrammed, it will see CIC and will program it accordingly to VO list and sound will work.

But to activate Navi you will need FSC code 100% sure. Other features should work just after reprograming of the car.
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      09-20-2009, 02:10 AM   #342
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CIC set for 1099 Euro from Poland!
Prices are going down quickly!

They are saying that for additional 299 Euro they can program it, but I think they cannot do it without car?

http://cgi.ebay.pl/BMW-E90-E91-E92-E...#ht_1129wt_814
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      09-20-2009, 08:59 AM   #343
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CIC set for 1099 Euro from Poland!
Prices are going down quickly!

They are saying that for additional 299 Euro they can program it, but I think they cannot do it without car?

http://cgi.ebay.pl/BMW-E90-E91-E92-E...#ht_1129wt_814
That's a CCC...
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      09-20-2009, 12:13 PM   #344
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That's a CCC...
Ooops.... I need to sleep more
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      09-20-2009, 03:58 PM   #345
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Ooops.... I need to sleep more
I think that this vendor once stated in that auction that this was an LCI iDrive "kit"; I know because I also clicked it to see if it was in reality some time ago.

It seems that the vendor removed that "LCI" from the description...
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      09-21-2009, 09:03 PM   #346
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What's going on with Long's Retrofit?
Is it dead??
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      09-22-2009, 12:16 AM   #347
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What's going on with Long's Retrofit?
Is it dead??
its on hold for now. trying to figure it out though. not sure where to go at this point. i am waiting for my wire so i can install the unit in the car.
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      09-22-2009, 07:56 PM   #348
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i got the old screen to work again. some fuse burnt out but my SA wont tell me which one.
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      09-23-2009, 07:08 PM   #349
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Ok, so i just re installed the system. i am going to let the car sleep with the new unit. hopefully it will work when it wakes up. everything else is working. the CIC is reading the tpms, vehicle service, oil level, brakes, etc....i'm not sure why the navigation is not loading. i will restart it up in 30 mins.
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      09-23-2009, 08:43 PM   #350
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Ok, so i just re installed the system. i am going to let the car sleep with the new unit. hopefully it will work when it wakes up. everything else is working. the CIC is reading the tpms, vehicle service, oil level, brakes, etc....i'm not sure why the navigation is not loading. i will restart it up in 30 mins.
Can you see your iPod contents in the display?
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      09-23-2009, 08:59 PM   #351
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Can you see your iPod contents in the display?
[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G2MbDTfuEcA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G2MbDTfuEcA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]
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      09-23-2009, 09:11 PM   #352
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So the Assist/Bluetooth was recognized (GSM without any recoding), that's great!

Did you test the iPod?
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