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      06-23-2010, 03:23 PM   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliew View Post
I've never used WinkFP, but if someone can give me some guidance on how I can change the VIN number in the CIC then I may give it a shot next month with the 2010 maps.

In theory if it does work then there is no reason why you couldn't buy the FSC code and then write that 1 VIN number to many CIC's for use with the emulator.

But that's a project for next month since I've spent way toooo much on my car this month with my water pump just dying on me.
Unfortunately it won't be that easy to find a way to change the VIN in the CIC.
It doesn't work like with other ECUs.
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      06-23-2010, 03:46 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
Of course, the next problem is loading the FSC into the CIC - which a few of the guys above know how to do, but are unwilling to share.
I thought that was just a case of inputting the 20 digit number into the CIC with the controller.
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      06-23-2010, 03:55 PM   #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliew View Post
I thought that was just a case of inputting the 20 digit number into the CIC with the controller.
That's only applicable to the maps DVDs.
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      06-23-2010, 03:57 PM   #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliew View Post
I thought that was just a case of inputting the 20 digit number into the CIC with the controller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That's only applicable to the maps DVDs.
Thats what I was talking about
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      06-23-2010, 04:06 PM   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliew View Post
Thats what I was talking about
If you change your VIN you will have to change all FSC codes as well.
The CAN emulator will not help here
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      06-23-2010, 04:13 PM   #930
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Here's a terrible iPhone shot of the FSC request screen:

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      06-23-2010, 05:17 PM   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrys View Post
If you change your VIN you will have to change all FSC codes as well.
The CAN emulator will not help here
Patrys I was not talking about changing the vehicles VIN

The CIC emulator is proof that the car doesn't really care about about what VIN is loaded in the CIC.

But what we are currently talking about is changing the VIN in the 'CIC' using winkfp or whatever tool maybe capable of doing it.

I then suggested that in theory if this did work there is no reason why we couldn't write that VIN number to other CIC's. We then enable the maps by entering the 20 digit enabling code through the interface provided by BMW.

The CIC would be validating the enabling code against its own VIN.

We would/could basically end up creating cloned CIC's that are programmed with a donor VIN and would work with a device such as the CIC Emulator. The map enabling code could then be 'shared' by many people.

Now of course you guys have far more knowledge than me about the various BMW tools and I will definitely take your advice and heed your warnings.

Just theorizing and exploring possibilities
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      06-23-2010, 05:26 PM   #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliew View Post
Patrys I was not talking about changing the vehicles VIN

The CIC emulator is proof that the car doesn't really care about about what VIN is loaded in the CIC.

But what we are currently talking about is changing the VIN in the 'CIC' using winkfp or whatever tool maybe capable of doing it.

I then suggested that in theory if this did work there is no reason why we couldn't write that VIN number to other CIC's. We then enable the maps by entering the 20 digit enabling code through the interface provided by BMW.

The CIC would be validating the enabling code against its own VIN.

We would/could basically end up creating cloned CIC's that are programmed with a donor VIN and would work with a device such as the CIC Emulator. The map enabling code could then be 'shared' by many people.

Now of course you guys have far more knowledge than me about the various BMW tools and I will definitely take your advice and heed your warnings.

Just theorizing and exploring possibilities
I know what you were talking about
My comment was related to the VIN change in the CIC...
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      06-23-2010, 05:30 PM   #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrys View Post
I know what you were talking about
My comment was related to the VIN change in the CIC...
OK, then I don't understand your comment about changing all FSC's
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      06-23-2010, 07:45 PM   #934
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I would guess that changing the VIN in the CIC is what the FSC does, by encryption. If it were so easy to change the VIN then there would be no emulators or FSC... the VIN is the FSC.
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      06-23-2010, 08:20 PM   #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliew View Post
Patrys I was not talking about changing the vehicles VIN

The CIC emulator is proof that the car doesn't really care about about what VIN is loaded in the CIC.

But what we are currently talking about is changing the VIN in the 'CIC' using winkfp or whatever tool maybe capable of doing it.

I then suggested that in theory if this did work there is no reason why we couldn't write that VIN number to other CIC's. We then enable the maps by entering the 20 digit enabling code through the interface provided by BMW.

The CIC would be validating the enabling code against its own VIN.



We would/could basically end up creating cloned CIC's that are programmed with a donor VIN and would work with a device such as the CIC Emulator. The map enabling code could then be 'shared' by many people.

Now of course you guys have far more knowledge than me about the various BMW tools and I will definitely take your advice and heed your warnings.

Just theorizing and exploring possibilities
The only reason is that they wouldn't get any money out of these retrofits.

And patrys, that is not directed at you so much as it is directed at MEN and the russian bastard. I just have an issue with people learning off of other people and piecing information together from people who shared, then being unwilling to share themselves.
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      06-23-2010, 08:27 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I would guess that changing the VIN in the CIC is what the FSC does, by encryption. If it were so easy to change the VIN then there would be no emulators or FSC... the VIN is the FSC.
That's not the impression I got...I'll have to find the PDF somewhere but IIRC the FSC is more like an encrypted VIN signed with BMW's private key....which the CIC has also.

Therefore, as long as the VIN in the FSC matches the VIN in the CIC, and as long as the two private keys match, you're golden. So if you could get the CIC to have the same VIN as the FSC you have access to, in theory it may work.
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      06-23-2010, 09:30 PM   #937
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I would guess that changing the VIN in the CIC is what the FSC does, by encryption. If it were so easy to change the VIN then there would be no emulators or FSC... the VIN is the FSC.
I think I understand your train of thought, ........ so how far does this differ from the service that patrys offers. I'm just throwing that out there, Isn't this effectively what he is doing with used CIC's.

And before I say anything else I'm not trying to rub anyone up the wrong way or put anyone out of business I just enjoy the challenge.
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Last edited by lesliew; 06-24-2010 at 12:01 AM.
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      06-24-2010, 04:44 AM   #938
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The only reason is that they wouldn't get any money out of these retrofits.

And patrys, that is not directed at you so much as it is directed at MEN and the russian bastard. I just have an issue with people learning off of other people and piecing information together from people who shared, then being unwilling to share themselves.
I don't know why some of you think that I came over to the dark side just because I don't explain everything to everyone.

As you noticed I became a vendor on this board a few weeks ago.
I don't think you would expect other vendors to disclose details of their know-how, partners they work with or anything else their business is based on.

As you can see in my posts I am trying to help you to some extent, but don't expect from me something you wouldn't hear from other vendors.

Before I started to offer my services on this forum people who knew how to activate the CIC Navigation were only teasing us and did not even want to be paid for their help.
I hope you can see a difference in my attitude even though I do business on what I have learnt.

Just FYI, MEN is my business partner, so treat him as a vendor as well.

Sorry for the off topic.
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      06-24-2010, 05:42 AM   #939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
That's not the impression I got...I'll have to find the PDF somewhere but IIRC the FSC is more like an encrypted VIN signed with BMW's private key....which the CIC has also.

Therefore, as long as the VIN in the FSC matches the VIN in the CIC, and as long as the two private keys match, you're golden. So if you could get the CIC to have the same VIN as the FSC you have access to, in theory it may work.
When you flash an used CIC (loaded with the donor's VIN FSC) with a new FSC of the VIN of your choice in fact you are changing the VIN of that used CIC. When you read a CIC you will see the VIN, but that must be either decoded from the FSC or it is the VIN from the car showing in the CIC screen. A new CIC does not have any FSC loaded, its variable says NOT_EXISTENT.

I don't think that you will see a VIN packet/data in the CIC that it is in a non-encrypted form.
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      06-24-2010, 05:47 AM   #940
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Originally Posted by lesliew View Post
I think I understand your train of thought, ........ so how far does this differ from the service that patrys offers. I'm just throwing that out there, Isn't this effectively what he is doing with used CIC's.

And before I say anything else I'm not trying to rub anyone up the wrong way or put anyone out of business I just enjoy the challenge.
That's Patrys service... he's taking your VIN and loading it (FSC) into a CIC, either new or used. So when your car perform the CAN VIN handshake with the CIC they match.
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      06-24-2010, 07:02 AM   #941
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Sounds to me like we ARE one the right track then.
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      06-24-2010, 07:37 AM   #942
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Sounds to me like we ARE one the right track then.
It is not very simple, it is necessary to spend some years to study it
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      06-24-2010, 08:09 AM   #943
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Originally Posted by Patrys View Post
I don't know why some of you think that I came over to the dark side just because I don't explain everything to everyone.

As you noticed I became a vendor on this board a few weeks ago.
I don't think you would expect other vendors to disclose details of their know-how, partners they work with or anything else their business is based on.

As you can see in my posts I am trying to help you to some extent, but don't expect from me something you wouldn't hear from other vendors.

Before I started to offer my services on this forum people who knew how to activate the CIC Navigation were only teasing us and did not even want to be paid for their help.
I hope you can see a difference in my attitude even though I do business on what I have learnt.

Just FYI, MEN is my business partner, so treat him as a vendor as well.

Sorry for the off topic.

Patrys, please note I specifically said that above post wasn't directed at you. I do appreciate the insight you've given, and you have been much more helpful than the other two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
When you flash an used CIC (loaded with the donor's VIN FSC) with a new FSC of the VIN of your choice in fact you are changing the VIN of that used CIC. When you read a CIC you will see the VIN, but that must be either decoded from the FSC or it is the VIN from the car showing in the CIC screen. A new CIC does not have any FSC loaded, its variable says NOT_EXISTENT.

I don't think that you will see a VIN packet/data in the CIC that it is in a non-encrypted form.
Are you positive the VIN is not stored in clear text in the ECU? I was fairly certain each ECU has the VIN coded to it as well.

It's still possible that it uses the FSC to match against what the car provides, but it's also possible that it uses the FSC against what the CIC itself has stored as the car's ECU.

Either way, if we could get a hold of a) the FSC for one that works and b) the method to load the FSC and C) stop the CAN packet, it should work and be repeatable.
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      06-24-2010, 08:18 AM   #944
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Patrys, please note I specifically said that above post wasn't directed at you. I do appreciate the insight you've given, and you have been much more helpful than the other two.



Are you positive the VIN is not stored in clear text in the ECU? I was fairly certain each ECU has the VIN coded to it as well - for instance, if you have an incorrect VIN it may reject the ecu.

It's still possible that it uses the FSC to match against what the car provides, but it's also possible that it uses the FSC against what the CIC itself has stored as the car's ECU.

Either way, if we could get a hold of a) the FSC for one that works and b) the method to load the FSC and C) stop the CAN packet, it should work and be repeatable.
That's OK. I am cool
I did not direct my message specifically at you either.
Just wanted everyone here to look at the "issue" from a different angle.

Back to the topic...
Changing the VIN in the CIC is as much complicated as loading the FSC.
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      06-24-2010, 10:20 AM   #945
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D-can cable and the infamous BMW E-sys tool, maybe.
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      06-25-2010, 05:00 AM   #946
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D-can cable and the infamous BMW E-sys tool, maybe.

BMW E-sys tool - only for F-series: F01, F10 ext
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