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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > ConnectedDrive / I-Drive / Navigation Related Discussion > Next GEN I-DRIVE Retrofit



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      07-10-2009, 07:35 PM   #177
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So the retrofit is possible...

I wonder what price range this would be in. Probably too steep for the upgrades for me.
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      07-10-2009, 09:23 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac View Post
Technic already gave a link to the forum, so I will give the direct link to the CCC discussion: http://www.bmwclub.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=219909
I skimmed through a couple pages, but its people arguing whether the new nav is a step or a leap in the right direction.

Google: http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=
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      07-11-2009, 08:47 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Can be possible if anyone here can translate just the important/technical posts in that Russian forum thread that directly relate to retrofitting the CIC to a CCC vehicle?

Thanks...
As I already told - no solution will come. People make money with it and do not share anything. They can answer the question, if question itself contains most of the answer, but will not give full solution.

Basically it's clear that it's plug-and-play, you just need to change the VO with INPA or Autologic. But the biggest question is how to activate Navi, because you need VIN-specific FSC which is generated by BMW online via Internet.
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      07-11-2009, 09:22 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac View Post
As I already told - no solution will come. People make money with it and do not share anything. They can answer the question, if question itself contains most of the answer, but will not give full solution.

Basically it's clear that it's plug-and-play, you just need to change the VO with INPA or Autologic. But the biggest question is how to activate Navi, because you need VIN-specific FSC which is generated by BMW online via Internet .
That's the only valuable thing that I could get out of that Russian thread...
Attached Images
File Type: pdf FSC required after CIC replacement.pdf (17.2 KB, 746 views)
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      07-11-2009, 10:21 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That's the only valuable thing that I could get out of that Russian thread...
So, it's possible but the enabling codes are needed. That's tricky though, I'm not sure they would authorize the ordering of the codes for a car that wasn't originally equipped with a CIC. The other option is trying to crack the enabling codes, which probably isn't easy since they are encrypted. Someone made some progress towards it, but I don't think ever got all the way there.
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      07-11-2009, 01:29 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
So, it's possible but the enabling codes are needed. That's tricky though, I'm not sure they would authorize the ordering of the codes for a car that wasn't originally equipped with a CIC. The other option is trying to crack the enabling codes, which probably isn't easy since they are encrypted. Someone made some progress towards it, but I don't think ever got all the way there.
That's the real question and nothing else will matter until this is answered.

Changing the Vehicle Order (which also requires the VIN to be performed) is only required if what is wanted is a complete retrofit to a car without iDrive. And we already know that it can be done with the right connections: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131416

So if the vehicle already is equipped with iDrive half of the battle is won already.

Obtaining the FSC in the other hand is like you are saying but with a twist: it could be very tricky. However, it could be done the same way as changing the VO in theory, but it will require a little more than the right connection to the department that create the FSC.

So this is the very next step after getting the cables and before ordering the major parts... meeting the more than the right connection.
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      07-11-2009, 02:03 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
The other option is trying to crack the enabling codes, which probably isn't easy since they are encrypted.
128 bit encryption? Don't think it's really possible in the nearest future : )
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      07-11-2009, 02:42 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That's the real question and nothing else will matter until this is answered.

Changing the Vehicle Order (which also requires the VIN to be performed) is only required if what is wanted is a complete retrofit to a car without iDrive. And we already know that it can be done with the right connections: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131416

So if the vehicle already is equipped with iDrive half of the battle is won already.

Obtaining the FSC in the other hand is like you are saying but with a twist: it could be very tricky. However, it could be done the same way as changing the VO in theory, but it will require a little more than the right connection to the department that create the FSC.

So this is the very next step after getting the cables and before ordering the major parts... meeting the more than the right connection.
Well, just because it's coded for iDrive doesn't necessarily mean it's right. There are a bunch of option codes, and there's a very good possibility that the option code for the CIC system is completely different then that of the CCC. Then you have to deal with things like HD Radio, DVD, etc. However I am familiar with changing the VO and could do at least that.

The real issue, as you said, will be the enabling code.
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      07-11-2009, 04:02 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That's the real question and nothing else will matter until this is answered.

Changing the Vehicle Order (which also requires the VIN to be performed) is only required if what is wanted is a complete retrofit to a car without iDrive. And we already know that it can be done with the right connections: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131416

So if the vehicle already is equipped with iDrive half of the battle is won already.

Obtaining the FSC in the other hand is like you are saying but with a twist: it could be very tricky. However, it could be done the same way as changing the VO in theory, but it will require a little more than the right connection to the department that create the FSC.

So this is the very next step after getting the cables and before ordering the major parts... meeting the more than the right connection.

Technic - I was working on the FSC hack for quite a while but stopped progress when I was able to just "order" it (for free!) from BMW. However, I have seen somewhere on the net (E60 forums?) where someone broke it all down and figured it out the coding schema in XML.
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      07-11-2009, 04:35 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
Technic - I was working on the FSC hack for quite a while but stopped progress when I was able to just "order" it (for free!) from BMW. However, I have seen somewhere on the net (E60 forums?) where someone broke it all down and figured it out the coding schema in XML.
That's what I'm simply will try, just ask for it to the shop manager of my local dealer.

Again, if you could just completely retrofitted the iDrive from the whole wiring harness to the complete system to the VO/FSC, then I don't honestly see any major issues obtaining this FSC directly from BMWNA for just a swap.

And because I started noticing that some members here are retrofitting TCUc for the Bluetooth function without any dealer programming just by plugging them in, perhaps this swap will automatically sync with the rest of my systems -I hope. The only one that probably will not work is my Individual Audio, just because it requires the CIC to output in digital, but if it outputs in analog then it will be better for me as I upgraded my sound system to aftermarket anyways.
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      07-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by dmurray14 View Post
Well, just because it's coded for iDrive doesn't necessarily mean it's right. There are a bunch of option codes, and there's a very good possibility that the option code for the CIC system is completely different then that of the CCC. Then you have to deal with things like HD Radio, DVD, etc. However I am familiar with changing the VO and could do at least that.

The real issue, as you said, will be the enabling code.
I don't see this VO being any obstacle, as this unit is completely self sustained. If a photo was taken of this CIC with its GPS running and the display showing a map in a test bench -regardless of how the FSC was obtained- then that tells me that as long as the MOST/CAN messages in and out of this unit are encoded the same as the old iDrive then that's basically it.

So far I'm running the new iDrive controller with the old iDrive, so at least the CAN messages seem to be the same.

Let's see...
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      07-11-2009, 05:03 PM   #188
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I think my BIGGEST concern of this whole CIC retrofit (as stated before) is that I'm pretty much sure conventional BMW programming methods (SSS/Progman) will fail to flash the car due to the part number incompatibilities for that year car - this is a try and see what happens issue. I'm fairly certain that we could get a CIC, CID, and controller all hooked up and working 90% without any programming at all. Its that last 10% that is going to be a hassle...

Someone needs to buy a CIC (or borrow one?!) and hook it up and see what happens!!! If I had my preference, it would be a 2006 or early 2007 E90! (hee-hee)
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      07-11-2009, 05:19 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
I think my BIGGEST concern of this whole CIC retrofit (as stated before) is that I'm pretty much sure conventional BMW programming methods (SSS/Progman) will fail to flash the car due to the part number incompatibilities for that year car - this is a try and see what happens issue. I'm fairly certain that we could get a CIC, CID, and controller all hooked up and working 90% without any programming at all. Its that last 10% that is going to be a hassle...

Someone needs to buy a CIC (or borrow one?!) and hook it up and see what happens!!! If I had my preference, it would be a 2006 or early 2007 E90! (hee-hee)
I thought about borrowing a CIC for testing until I found that document attached above about the FSC: according to that document, swapping a CIC from another vehicle will not work because each one is coded to the VIN thru the FSC.

If I get all the cables and the USB port, and got some reassurance from the local BMW dealer that I can get some custom FSC then I will order the parts. However, I'm keeping the old iDrive parts just to allow my car to be coded in the future by doing a quick retro-retrofit.
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      07-12-2009, 01:31 AM   #190
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Another possible way - official CIC retrofit. But will it come? : ) I am not sure : (
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      07-12-2009, 07:29 AM   #191
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Another possible way - official CIC retrofit. But will it come? : ) I am not sure : (
The last time that BMW offered an official and complete OEM Nav retrofit kit was in late 2004 for most of their models by that time, especially the E46. And this one was for cars without any Nav. Currently they offer an OEM upgrade from Business Nav to Professional for the E9x.

These OEM Nav kits were never officially offered in the USA, but I got a hold of one for the E46: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=203145

I think that the closer we get to the last model years of the current 3-Series it could be possible for BMW to start offering an OEM retrofit kit of the LCI iDrive, just to clean up their inventories.
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      07-12-2009, 06:08 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booster4075 View Post
I think my BIGGEST concern of this whole CIC retrofit (as stated before) is that I'm pretty much sure conventional BMW programming methods (SSS/Progman) will fail to flash the car due to the part number incompatibilities for that year car - this is a try and see what happens issue. I'm fairly certain that we could get a CIC, CID, and controller all hooked up and working 90% without any programming at all. Its that last 10% that is going to be a hassle...

Someone needs to buy a CIC (or borrow one?!) and hook it up and see what happens!!! If I had my preference, it would be a 2006 or early 2007 E90! (hee-hee)
Well, ISTA/P (Progman now phased out) reads the VO from the car. It's not off the VIN or anything like that, and if you have the right option codes in the VO then it will proceed as if you had it fitted from the factory. The only place the coding options come from are the car's VO.
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      07-12-2009, 07:29 PM   #193
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Well, ISTA/P (Progman now phased out) reads the VO from the car. It's not off the VIN or anything like that, and if you have the right option codes in the VO then it will proceed as if you had it fitted from the factory. The only place the coding options come from are the car's VO.
If this is the case (I had heard of the new system, but know nothing about it!), then this should be possible, other than potential difficulties with TCU/assist...
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      07-12-2009, 08:30 PM   #194
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If this is the case (I had heard of the new system, but know nothing about it!), then this should be possible, other than potential difficulties with TCU/assist...
Yep! You can have it all planned out on paper, but there will always be some snags! Definitely a fun project, though, and one I would attempt if I had the extra cash lying around.
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      07-21-2009, 05:45 AM   #195
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I have been told by an independent BMW specialist that autologic probably have the solution for making voice control working without using activation code

I have also got the price of CIC from New Zealand BMW, the price is around $1800NZD which is not too bad. but the screen is still very expensive, not sure what's the price in other country?
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      07-21-2009, 08:51 AM   #196
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If this is the case (I had heard of the new system, but know nothing about it!), then this should be possible, other than potential difficulties with TCU/assist...
... and so far I know of one forum member that retrofitted an used Assist TCU to a 3 Series and got it working without any need of a dealer programming.

The TCU started communicating with the OEM HU/iDrive right away by just following the OEM retrofit instructions (fiber optics re-positioning, hardware installation) and just pairing a phone to it. The Assist service also worked as well...

I expect the same with this iDrive retrofit, that once is functional -be thru the FSC codes or Autologic- it will be communicating with the rest of the audio components automatically. The only component that I expect to have problems is with the OEM amp, just because it could be either analog or digital and that's something that depends of what type of audio signal the CIC is programmed to output, not a MOST communication issue.
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      07-23-2009, 07:39 AM   #197
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You've got the part number for the USB connector, and the schematic is posted in CiC.PDF. USB is only four wires, and the schematic gives you the pin out. It would be very easy to wire this up yourself. If you can't buy the cable, you can always make one.
If my past experience in getting OEM connectors -especially BMW proprietary- told me something is that regardless of how simple the OEM wiring schematic looks getting the end connectors of that cable will be impossible. Although they look like Fakra with SMB terminals, they are not.

The complete OEM cable is needed, there's no way around it.

Quote:
Was it a CDMA to GSM conversion? If yes, what was the part number for the GSM TCU? I see two different part numbers listed.
No, that was a straight, full CDMA retrofit as the TCU was used. I'm not sure if a CDMA to GSM swap can be possible right now, as it seems that -as this new iDrive/CIC retrofit- it will need a very particular new coding session, not just to activate it.
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      07-23-2009, 11:57 AM   #198
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So even with the part number for the connector you don't think it can be purchased?
My guess is that suppliers like Tyco, CWB, and even Molex have strict contracts with BMW for most of their connectors. For example, for three years I have been trying to order from Tyco the HiFi OEM amp PCB connector (the connector soldered at the OEM amp, not at the car) using the P/N printed in it to create a harness to no avail: their response has been that "only BMW can order this part". I have tried to even get individual pins from those OEM connectors and their answer is no, I have to buy whole harnesses from them in a minimum quantity of 1000 pieces.

Yeah, right.

Quote:
Weren't you thinking just a few posts earlier that a recoding wasn't necessary so long as the target vehicle was already equipped with the same iDrive options?
IMO, the difference between retrofitting the new iDrive and the new GSM TCU is that the GSM TCU is more intrusive/inclusive than the CDMA TCU from the point of view of the iDrive. The Google Search and the Stocks/Gas Prices/Weather display features of the new iDrive are possible thru the GSM TCU by just subscribing to the Convenience Plan. No coding/trip to the dealer is required, you pay $200 right now and within minutes you got all those features in your MY2009 iDrive screen.

The CDMA TCU -as far as I know- does not send any interactive display to the iDrive other than its basic data.

Then there's the issue of a possible change of iDrive/GSM TCU coding between 03/08 and 04/08 production, when the CDMA TCU was replaced by the GSM version. The new iDrive controller that I retrofitted in the "old" iDrive without any issues into my 05/08 production M3 is not working at all in pre-04/08 production M3: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280901

However, in the same thread there is an Australian 09/07 production M3 that the same new iDrive controller worked without any issues with the "old" iDrive... the difference is that its TCU is GSM -it has never been CDMA outside the USA.

Thus, I assuming that there must be some markedly different software running between the GSM TCU/"old" iDrive and the CDMA TCU/"old" iDrive that doesn't even allow the new controller to be backwards compatible. So swapping TCUs not necessarily would have to follow my theory of the Vehicle Order supporting a swap of iDrive components as some other coding will be required.

Last edited by Technic; 07-30-2009 at 08:00 AM.
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