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      08-20-2008, 12:31 PM   #45
Socom
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No start on diesel is opening them up for a nice lawsuit. When that one chucklehead forgets or just doesnt refill the special fluid and gets stuck in the middle of nowhere and is hurt or dies or some other bad thing happens and they cant start their car...... How about a limp mode instead of no start......

I wanted a new Diesel but i dont like the idea of not starting because of lack fluid. Plus the gas mileage isnt that much better. i know its got to get better that the listed value.

Crap do I have to get a VW Diesel sportwagon?

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Two things..The no start doesn't say no go. I haven't seen anything that said the car will stop running if the tank is empty.

Secondly, the requirement to maintain fluid is just like any other consumable (Fuel, Oil, A/T fluid). I doubt there would be any damage awards to idiot drivers who forgot to fill up their tank on their way from LA to LV.
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      08-20-2008, 02:09 PM   #46
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I've never understood front or rear PDC on anything but full-sized cars and suv's...

I'm quite confident in knowing my cars dimensions, I think the "dots" in the bumpers clutter up a clean look...

+1, however I'm getting it so my wife doesn't put holes in the bumpers if she needs to borrow my car.
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      08-20-2008, 02:12 PM   #47
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No start on diesel is opening them up for a nice lawsuit. When that one chucklehead forgets or just doesnt refill the special fluid and gets stuck in the middle of nowhere and is hurt or dies or some other bad thing happens and they cant start their car...... How about a limp mode instead of no start......

I wanted a new Diesel but i dont like the idea of not starting because of lack fluid. Plus the gas mileage isnt that much better. i know its got to get better that the listed value.

Crap do I have to get a VW Diesel sportwagon?

Lawrence
2006 330i ]


Two things..The no start doesn't say no go. I haven't seen anything that said the car will stop running if the tank is empty.

Secondly, the requirement to maintain fluid is just like any other consumable (Fuel, Oil, A/T fluid). I doubt there would be any damage awards to idiot drivers who forgot to fill up their tank on their way from LA to LV.
I suspect running out of AddBlue fluid will be akin to running out of fuel and the car will come to a grinding halt. Idiotic? Yes. Forgetting to fill up and getting picked apart by buzzards in the Mojave - also idiotic.
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      08-20-2008, 10:36 PM   #48
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Noticed they switched map suppliers to TeleAtlas. I wonder whether Navteq will still make updated Nav discs for iDrive 1.0?
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      08-21-2008, 09:19 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyeyeskilla View Post
+1, however I'm getting it so my wife doesn't put holes in the bumpers if she needs to borrow my car.
Good point!

Still, I wish there were a system/technology that didn't require the ugly dots. If it wasn't for those, I might say "why-not" and go for the system too...
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      08-21-2008, 10:56 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosport70 View Post
Noticed they switched map suppliers to TeleAtlas. I wonder whether Navteq will still make updated Nav discs for iDrive 1.0?
I'd say you can count on it. They still update the CD-based nav system disks that came before iDrive, don't they?

Interesting BMW went to TeleAtlas. That's a real coup for TeleAtlas, which generally is considered the second-best (to NAVTEQ) for US map information -- or at least, it always had been considered second best. Supposedly, they've really improved their database information. They've been aggressive lately in becoming the supplier to GPS device manufacturers for use in the US (Tom Tom, mobile phones).
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      08-28-2008, 12:58 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by mosport70 View Post
Noticed they switched map suppliers to TeleAtlas. I wonder whether Navteq will still make updated Nav discs for iDrive 1.0?
Navteq still makes them for the MY99 E39, so I wouldn't worry anytime soon. They make WAY too much money on these updates to stop selling them for a long, long time....
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      08-28-2008, 01:07 AM   #52
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Interesting BMW went to TeleAtlas. That's a real coup for TeleAtlas, which generally is considered the second-best (to NAVTEQ) for US map information -- or at least, it always had been considered second best. Supposedly, they've really improved their database information. They've been aggressive lately in becoming the supplier to GPS device manufacturers for use in the US (Tom Tom, mobile phones).
I know nothing about TeleAtlas' coverage, but I'm thrilled that BMW is dumping NAVTEQ.

I had a MY99 E39 with Nav, and after paying the horrendous amount of money for updates several times (for the Cal/Nev CD) I decided that NAVTEQ isn't updating anything. Once they set up the initial database back in the 90's, they've been updating almost nothing (despite their claims on their website) for years and just cashing in.

I moved to newly built residences twice, and found that it took about 3 years each time for the streets to show up on the NAVTEQ discs (and that's AFTER I moved in, and the streets had already pre-existed for about a year prior to me moving there). I'd submit to them about the missing data, too, buy the next update, and not find them in there - really frustrating. Every year I also drive by a HUGE mall on the Interstate 5 up in mid-California - it's been there for about 5 years and it has yet to show up on the NAVTEQ discs even today (that applies to Honda's current disc as well as BMW's). And this is a huge mall in the middle of nowhere, where you'd want the Nav to be finding it while on a long trip, etc. (I've submitted that one, too, several times but they don't seem to care.)

Obviously I decided that buying annual updates (at least in Cal) from NAVTEQ was like getting robbed, so I stopped buying them every year.

I don't know the current situation, but I remember back around 2000-2001 or so that NAVTEQ essentially had a monopoly on US data - in the sense the they supplied MSN Maps, Microsoft Streets & Trips, every car nav system at the time, etc. It's nice to see that there is finally some competition.

I don't know if you've all seen some of the screenshots of the new 2009 E90 Nav system showing 3D renditions of the BMW headquarters on the map. Looks cool, but based on my previous disappointments with NAVTEQ, I'm fully expecting to find NONE of that cool stuff on US maps despite the switch to Teleatlas - that stuff requires effort to be spent by the mapping company, and frankly there is little reason for them to go the extra mile once they have the deal with a car manufacturer. I.e. once you buy the car, it's not like you can choose whose's disc to buy.....
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      08-28-2008, 01:12 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by ltdorn View Post
No start on diesel is opening them up for a nice lawsuit. When that one chucklehead forgets or just doesnt refill the special fluid and gets stuck in the middle of nowhere and is hurt or dies or some other bad thing happens and they cant start their car...... How about a limp mode instead of no start......
This is an issue of meeting emission regulations, which is why there is no compromise.

I really don't see an issue - it's really no different than remembering to change your oil, and close to the same replacement cycle.

I'd be more worried about not paying attention someday and accidentally putting regular gas in the car (although I hear the filler dimensions my prevent that?)!

I'd be questioning more the cost of the Urea recharge than I'd be worried about running out (given the huge amount of warning that the car gives you).

I think it's great that BMW is bringing diesels here. But for me personally the economics are simply not attractive enough to go away from a gasoline-powered E90....
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      08-28-2008, 10:10 PM   #54
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" Better fuel economy for the 335d: 23MPG City and 33MPG Hwy"

Guys...what does this mean, i thought diesels have higher mpgs?
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      08-29-2008, 02:32 AM   #55
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" Better fuel economy for the 335d: 23MPG City and 33MPG Hwy"

Guys...what does this mean, i thought diesels have higher mpgs?
That is higher than a 335i's, unless you mean you thought it was going to be higher in relative to diesel standards in general.

It's not like a 320d or anything. Higher performance equals sacrifices in fuel efficiency.
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      08-29-2008, 04:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
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That is higher than a 335i's, unless you mean you thought it was going to be higher in relative to diesel standards in general.

It's not like a 320d or anything. Higher performance equals sacrifices in fuel efficiency.
I was expecting higher city numbers....but I guess those are still good mpgs for a twin turbo
but then all hte dealers are prbly going to jack up the prices on these
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      08-29-2008, 05:25 PM   #57
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I was expecting higher city numbers....but I guess those are still good mpgs for a twin turbo
but then all hte dealers are prbly going to jack up the prices on these
The overall math on diesels has often been tough (just as Hybrids take a long time to pay for themselves).

In Southern Cal we're now seeing gas prices coming down (although nobody wants to admit it), but diesel prices are staying up....

Not that I don't think that Diesels (and Hybrids) are cool technologies...
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      09-01-2008, 04:07 AM   #58
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In Southern Cal we're now seeing gas prices coming down (although nobody wants to admit it), but diesel prices are staying up....
It's the same in Europe and it's not going to change soon: in the world, the demand for diesel is much higher than the demand for gasoline. So, although the diesel cars consume less, it's strange that BMW is trying to get new markets for his diesels now. It might not be the best time to do so.

The service on a diesel car costs more too. But, at least in Europe, the car keeps a higher resale value, because it's quite common to make more than 200.000 km (125.000 miles) with a diesel engine. If you drive a lot and want to keep the car longer (maybe not a good idea anymore with all the technology embedded in the cars), a diesel still largely pays itself. But for how long ?
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      09-01-2008, 12:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsd107 View Post
I know nothing about TeleAtlas' coverage, but I'm thrilled that BMW is dumping NAVTEQ.

I had a MY99 E39 with Nav, and after paying the horrendous amount of money for updates several times (for the Cal/Nev CD) I decided that NAVTEQ isn't updating anything. Once they set up the initial database back in the 90's, they've been updating almost nothing (despite their claims on their website) for years and just cashing in.

I moved to newly built residences twice, and found that it took about 3 years each time for the streets to show up on the NAVTEQ discs (and that's AFTER I moved in, and the streets had already pre-existed for about a year prior to me moving there). I'd submit to them about the missing data, too, buy the next update, and not find them in there - really frustrating. Every year I also drive by a HUGE mall on the Interstate 5 up in mid-California - it's been there for about 5 years and it has yet to show up on the NAVTEQ discs even today (that applies to Honda's current disc as well as BMW's). And this is a huge mall in the middle of nowhere, where you'd want the Nav to be finding it while on a long trip, etc. (I've submitted that one, too, several times but they don't seem to care.)

Obviously I decided that buying annual updates (at least in Cal) from NAVTEQ was like getting robbed, so I stopped buying them every year.
I had about the same luck when I bought my CPO'd ZHP. My neighborhood was about a year old and I bought one of the last "new" houses in it. The disc. that came with the car (late 2002) didn't even show the 1st (main) road in the neighborhood (which my house was located on). Not having a budget to buy a "new" disc every year, I decided to just keep a year ahead of what I had. Car is an early `03 that had a late `02 disc in it. I bought it mid 2006. So, through ebay, I've been updateing about every year, just one year at a time. I was surprised to find two of the main roads into my neighborhood on the late 2003 disc, however, the car would get confused as I would go into that county. I would be sitting in my driveway and it would show the two main streets into my neighborhood being 2-3 blocks (estimated) to the north. Late `04 disc. I upgraded to a few months back still does the same thing...

As I've bought/sold the disc's on ebay, it really hasn't been that costly, I think about $25 (give or take) per upgrade between buying/shipping/ and selling/paypal/ebay costs...

Just a suggestion if you decide to keep on with your car and haven't updated in quite some time. I've felt less "robbed" as I'm only out about $50 so far for two updates...

/OT
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      09-02-2008, 02:34 PM   #60
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It's the same in Europe and it's not going to change soon: in the world, the demand for diesel is much higher than the demand for gasoline. So, although the diesel cars consume less, it's strange that BMW is trying to get new markets for his diesels now. It might not be the best time to do so.
I wonder if selling more diesels helps with CAFE standards?
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      09-08-2008, 06:32 PM   #61
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Interesting find. Thanks Jason!
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      10-01-2008, 09:36 AM   #62
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" Better fuel economy for the 335d: 23MPG City and 33MPG Hwy"

Guys...what does this mean, i thought diesels have higher mpgs?
335i per fueleconomy.gov is 18/26
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      10-01-2008, 11:33 AM   #63
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In regards to the engine not starting due to no "exhaust fluid."

It's probably an emissions-related issue where the EPA requires that the car exhaust always stay within spec, thus only be operable with the fluid injection.
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      10-01-2008, 07:16 PM   #64
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hi im new here
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      10-01-2008, 07:26 PM   #65
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hi im new here
couldn't have picked a better thread! welcome!
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