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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > BMW Technician explanation for turbo lag



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      08-16-2008, 09:41 AM   #1
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BMW Technician explanation for turbo lag

I found this on 1addicts.com from bimmertech. I have also attached my response. Please comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmertech
i actually don't belong to e90. and i actually haven't done a fuel pump in quite a while. v30.2 (the most current software version) has no affect on vehicles produced 3/08 which had a software level of 28.2 from the factory. the last software version that affected how the high pressure pump was controlled by the dme was v24.2 which only affected early production e9x and e6x. the lag that people tend to complain about after programming rather is caused by the nature of how the wastegate actuator is controlled. in pre-v28.2 vehicles, one wastegate was closed at idle to reduce lag. however due to the wastegate rattle noises v28.2 opened both wastegates up to eliminate the rattle, however this caused a slight lag below 3000 rpms. bmw has yet to address this issue. this really should only affect people with pre 03/08 build dates.


Thank you for the explanation but I am having trouble following it. If post 3/08 vehicles have v28.2 from the factory and v28.2 has "a slight lag below 3,000 rpm" due to opening both wastegates, how could [lag] only "affect people with pre 3/08 build dates?" Shouldn't post 3/08 cars, which have factory v28.2 plus pre 3/08 cars updated with v28.2 all have the lag? Are you saying that pre 3/08 cars which were updated to v28.2 have lag but factory v28.2 post 3/08 cars don't? Please clarify.
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      08-16-2008, 10:12 AM   #2
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We need to 1) get this guy on here and direct him to the 29.2 thread, and 2) give kudos to shiv for hitting the nail on the head with what causes the extra lag.
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      08-16-2008, 10:13 AM   #3
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Also, my car is a 5/08 build and I don't have the lag under 3000rpms. Not sure how accurate this gentlemen is with his comments.
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      08-16-2008, 10:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slubu View Post
Also, my car is a 5/08 build and I don't have the lag under 3000rpms. Not sure how accurate this gentlemen is with his comments.
This actually supports the technician's comments.
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      08-16-2008, 01:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
0Shouldn't post 3/08 cars, which have factory v28.2 plus pre 3/08 cars updated with v28.2 all have the lag? Are you saying that pre 3/08 cars which were updated to v28.2 have lag but factory v28.2 post 3/08 cars don't? Please clarify.
He means that the post 3/08 cars have had the lag from the beginning, so they shouldn't notice a difference in lag, since that is all they know. The pre-3/08 guys will notice the lag increase, because they've experienced the car without lag.

Or if you are like me, and test drive a car without lag and then get delivered a car with lag, you will notice too
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      08-16-2008, 02:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
This actually supports the technician's comments.
+1

This confirms my beliefs from day one.
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      08-16-2008, 03:06 PM   #7
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Yep, I have a 12/07 build and once I was upgraded to 30.2...hello lag
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      08-16-2008, 03:44 PM   #8
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08/06 build here, and you wouldn't BELIEVE the difference between the progman my car was shipped with, and the 29.2 garbage that is currently on there.
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      08-16-2008, 06:46 PM   #9
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I have a 5/08 build and it is vastly different from the 2007's I test drove. I can't get this thing to light the tires up from a stop with DTC off no matter what I try - even with the procede installed. The stock car barely feels faster than my '06 330i under 3000 rpm. The 2007's I drove would bury your butt in the seat rapidly.
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      08-16-2008, 07:03 PM   #10
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im 04/08 build and i have lag.
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      08-16-2008, 07:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slubu View Post
We need to 1) get this guy on here and direct him to the 29.2 thread, and 2) give kudos to shiv for hitting the nail on the head with what causes the extra lag.
I agree with both.
Good job Shiv.

Now that someone within BMW has FINALLY admitted that the new programs induce more lag (as those with the reflash have said all along) BMW needs to rectify the issue for those who got reflashed.
They bought (or leased) the car based on their initial driving experience.
You alter that vastly and it's not what you paid for or agreed too.

Funny how in the fine print, BMW can void your warranty or negate your deal if you "alter" the car in anyway, but if THEY alter the car in a NEGATIVE way, the person paying the bill has no recourse?

BMW better fix it fast, or if I were you reflashed guys, I'd be on the phone weekly with them until they take care of you in some way, shape, or form.
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      08-16-2008, 08:51 PM   #12
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Will an 09 model built in Sept. 08 still have the lag problem? Just purchased mine and waiting for them to build it... don't want lag!
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      08-16-2008, 11:04 PM   #13
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      08-16-2008, 11:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BzzzBom View Post
I found this on 1addicts.com from bimmertech. I have also attached my response. Please comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmertech
i actually don't belong to e90. and i actually haven't done a fuel pump in quite a while. v30.2 (the most current software version) has no affect on vehicles produced 3/08 which had a software level of 28.2 from the factory. the last software version that affected how the high pressure pump was controlled by the dme was v24.2 which only affected early production e9x and e6x. the lag that people tend to complain about after programming rather is caused by the nature of how the wastegate actuator is controlled. in pre-v28.2 vehicles, one wastegate was closed at idle to reduce lag. however due to the wastegate rattle noises v28.2 opened both wastegates up to eliminate the rattle, however this caused a slight lag below 3000 rpms. bmw has yet to address this issue. this really should only affect people with pre 03/08 build dates.


Thank you for the explanation but I am having trouble following it. If post 3/08 vehicles have v28.2 from the factory and v28.2 has "a slight lag below 3,000 rpm" due to opening both wastegates, how could [lag] only "affect people with pre 3/08 build dates?" Shouldn't post 3/08 cars, which have factory v28.2 plus pre 3/08 cars updated with v28.2 all have the lag? Are you saying that pre 3/08 cars which were updated to v28.2 have lag but factory v28.2 post 3/08 cars don't? Please clarify.

how about a link?

what he says - about the post 3/08 cars not being effected, i translate as follows:
"the peopl with 3/08 cars got the laggy software from the factory, so they will never know the diffirence"

however, i don't agree even with that interpretation. i started a poll on 1addicts and 22 people with post 3/08 cars reported lag, and 16 people with pre-3/08 reported lag. meanwhile, a lot of the posts in that thread say that their cars have no lag. Link: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13992

its freaking random - some people have it, some don't. i'm not saying its not connected to 29.2, because a ton of people with pre 3/08 cars report getting the lag as soon as they get updated. But, why do some people not have the lag, whether they are pre or post 3/08 build?
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      08-16-2008, 11:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
its freaking random - some people have it, some don't. i'm not saying its not connected to 29.2, because a ton of people with pre 3/08 cars report getting the lag as soon as they get updated. But, why do some people not have the lag, whether they are pre or post 3/08 build?
This sounds a lot like the HPFP issue. There's no rhyme or reason to the people who are affected and those who aren't...frustrating at the very least..
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      08-17-2008, 02:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Funny how in the fine print, BMW can void your warranty or negate your deal if you "alter" the car in anyway, but if THEY alter the car in a NEGATIVE way, the person paying the bill has no recourse?
Well to be fair, while they did introduce lag, they did it to prevent the wastegate rattle. So they were damned if they do, damned if they didn't, except that a hand full of people (enthusiasts) will notice the lag, while everybody would notice the rattle. So this was the lesser of 2 evils.

Although they should have just fixed the damn wastegates in the first place, lol.
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      08-17-2008, 02:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
how about a link?

what he says - about the post 3/08 cars not being effected, i translate as follows:
"the peopl with 3/08 cars got the laggy software from the factory, so they will never know the diffirence"

however, i don't agree even with that interpretation. i started a poll on 1addicts and 22 people with post 3/08 cars reported lag, and 16 people with pre-3/08 reported lag. meanwhile, a lot of the posts in that thread say that their cars have no lag. Link: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13992

its freaking random - some people have it, some don't. i'm not saying its not connected to 29.2, because a ton of people with pre 3/08 cars report getting the lag as soon as they get updated. But, why do some people not have the lag, whether they are pre or post 3/08 build?

From my understanding there has been three hardware revisions on the turbo/wastegate package. I think the problem is old hardware setup in combination with the new programs.
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      08-17-2008, 08:03 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JO3 View Post
Well to be fair, while they did introduce lag, they did it to prevent the wastegate rattle. So they were damned if they do, damned if they didn't, except that a hand full of people (enthusiasts) will notice the lag, while everybody would notice the rattle. So this was the lesser of 2 evils.

Although they should have just fixed the damn wastegates in the first place, lol.

I'll take the rattle over the lag if I get the performance back!!!

I'm going to call my dealer in the morning and tell them " do not bring my car back until the "hesitation" is gone....standing by
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      08-17-2008, 11:17 AM   #19
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Thanks Bzzz. Good info, and it confirms what we've been thinking for a while now.
I also have the same question as you did for the tech. Not clear on why post 3/08 vehicles are "unaffected"
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      08-17-2008, 11:21 AM   #20
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It would sure be nice to know if the original poster meant: "on post 03/08 cars, the underlying hardware issue causing the rattle was addressed, so the cars experienced no software-related lag based on that hw/sw interaction." Can anyone clarify?

My car has a 05/08 build date and I do not notice a lag problem. However, while I have driven many turbo cars with obvious lag (so I know lag), I have not driven an earlier 335i to compare to.
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      08-17-2008, 11:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolBoy View Post
It would sure be nice to know if the original poster meant: "on post 03/08 cars, the underlying hardware issue causing the rattle was addressed, so the cars experienced no software-related lag based on that hw/sw interaction." Can anyone clarify?
This is what no one here yet knows, and what we need to hear more about from the bimmertech poster.
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      08-17-2008, 11:28 AM   #22
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I think those results are the result of various people's perception of the lag, and that's what is random, NOT the lag issue that is random.

The fact of the matter is, IF you have a car made AFTER 3/08 it's wastegates are both open, which ADDS the lag.
If you have had your ECU reflashed from cars made BEFORE 3/08 you will have increased lag.

Again, the reason for the various responses on lag, is simply because the various views of what each person considers lag.
However, if these people with cars made 3/08 or after was to drive a pre 3/08 made car with one wastegate that is closed at idle and down low in the rpm, they would notice that there is less lag.

Those that responded that they have lag in cars made before 3/08 probably HAVEN'T driven a car made after 3/08 or had their ECU reflashed, otherwise they'd probably feel that their car in fact does NOT have the lag of the newer made cars or reflashed cars.
But, then their are people that STILL would not be able to tell the difference because they are not as acute to those type of things.

I'm glad I have a pre 3/08 made car and will do whatever I can to NOT have my car reflashed, since my wastegates are rattling either.
Hopefully BMW will figure out a different way to solve that rattle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
how about a link?

what he says - about the post 3/08 cars not being effected, i translate as follows:
"the peopl with 3/08 cars got the laggy software from the factory, so they will never know the diffirence"

however, i don't agree even with that interpretation. i started a poll on 1addicts and 22 people with post 3/08 cars reported lag, and 16 people with pre-3/08 reported lag. meanwhile, a lot of the posts in that thread say that their cars have no lag. Link: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13992

its freaking random - some people have it, some don't. i'm not saying its not connected to 29.2, because a ton of people with pre 3/08 cars report getting the lag as soon as they get updated. But, why do some people not have the lag, whether they are pre or post 3/08 build?
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