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      09-16-2008, 02:54 PM   #1
misterS3
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Automatic Drivers...Quick Question?

Do you put you car into neutral when waiting at lights or just keep your foot on the brake?

Any harm in either method?

(Ps - blacklines have arrived )
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      09-16-2008, 03:11 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterS3 View Post
Do you put you car into neutral when waiting at lights or just keep your foot on the brake?

Any harm in either method?

(Ps - blacklines have arrived )
Foot on the brake mate - quicker take off
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      09-16-2008, 03:19 PM   #3
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I've taken advanced driving lessons in the past and I've asked the above question to my instructors. The answer is, it depends how long you're waiting. if it's a fairly normal traffic light type wait, just hold on the brake. if it's a longer stop (maybe a railway crossing or somesuch) then put the handbrake on and stick it in neutral.

dave
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      09-16-2008, 03:19 PM   #4
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Either/or, really for me mate. If I know I`m at a set of lights that will keep me waiting, I`ll just stick it in Park, or Neutral, but if I know the wait isn`t excessive, I`ll just use the brake.......one of the plus-sides of the auto, if you ask me.

By the way, as jwbmw said, foot on the brake makes for a good take off, and I have honestly not met anything yet, that I couldn`t see-off from the lights, since I bought mine, including the recently-peeved Audi S3 driver, and the equally-peeved Golf R32 driver.

Don`t get me wrong, I`m not treating every set of lights like I`m at Santa Pod, but you get my drift........

The auto, coupled with the 330d, is brilliant for that.

Can only imagine how good the 335d must be from launch.........no wonder Carlos has been whooping everything at the Pod !
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      09-16-2008, 04:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyonn View Post
I've taken advanced driving lessons in the past and I've asked the above question to my instructors. The answer is, it depends how long you're waiting. if it's a fairly normal traffic light type wait, just hold on the brake. if it's a longer stop (maybe a railway crossing or somesuch) then put the handbrake on and stick it in neutral.

dave
When I'm at a railroad crossing I usually just park it with the e-brake and kill the engine. I've been at some traffic lights where a RR crossing by comparison is a flash of light (no pun intended).
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      09-16-2008, 04:19 PM   #6
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An interesting subject! If you like this sort of thing...

I'm either or as well. I'll sometimes hold it on the handbrake, release and drive away like that rather than rest on the main brake with lights on. It does annoy me when a person sits in front with some serious brake lights on. The Range Rovers LED's for example are waaay too bright...

I'm still playing with rolling up to a stop and trying to get a smooth stop on the brakes. It's always frustrated me that braking with positive D drive always leads to a 'jolt' (IAM Advanced driver here too). I'll try knocking it into Neutral at a slow speed which enables me to be much smoother on the brakes. Only issue with this is having to put into D again if the car doesn't come to a complete stop. It doesn't allow me to do that and I have to stop the car anyway by applying the brake before D can be engaged. Sort of negates the smooth stop I was planning. Unless I'm missing some trick here....

In the same vein, is there anyway of getting a faster start than resting on the brake and accelerating from <1k revs? ie can you hold it at high revs (in neutral) and then select D and fire away?

Sort of a launch control....
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      09-16-2008, 05:30 PM   #7
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depends on how long I'm going to be at the lights for.......
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      09-17-2008, 01:36 AM   #8
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As long as im aware of, putting it to N gives you a better fuel economy, and extends your clutch life.
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      09-17-2008, 01:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spandeli View Post
As long as im aware of, putting it to N gives you a better fuel economy, and extends your clutch life.
What clutch would that be?
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      09-17-2008, 02:22 AM   #10
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No clutch in an auto transmission.
It is perfectly fine to keep your foot on the brake whilst stationary. Thats what the torque converter is for. It allows the engine to spin independently of the transmission when idling. Very little torque/stress will pass through the converter when idling. Therefore, only the slightest amount of brake is required to hold still at idle. But when you step on the gas, the engine speeds up and pumps more fluid into the torque converter causing more torque to be transmitted to the wheels. Automatic transmissions are designed for this and its perfectly fine. This shouldnt have any affect on your fuel economy either as you are idling at the same RPM and going no where.
The only reason to put it in park or neutral w/handbrake is to rest your foot
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      09-17-2008, 02:38 AM   #11
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foot on the brake when at the lights or in traffic.

in park with handbrake if waiting for someone to come out of the house/office/store/etc.
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      09-17-2008, 03:10 AM   #12
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If you've come to a stop from a highish speed or braked hard then do not keep your foot on the brake. The brakes will be very hot, this is the perfect way to warp your discs.
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      09-17-2008, 04:50 AM   #13
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Actually believe slightly more fuel is burnt if you hold it on the brake but we are talking a miniscule amount. Although the engine is spinning at the same RPM its working slightly harder to maintain that RPM - it pops in a little more fuel to keep the engine from stalling. Back before computers and clever cars autos ran a slightly higher idle speed to make sure the car didnt stall when it lost 4-500RPM from being put in drive with a foot on the brake.
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      09-17-2008, 05:01 AM   #14
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.....I'm sure you can go in and out of D on the move.....so long as you press the button on the knob.....
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      09-17-2008, 05:03 AM   #15
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You can go out of D but not back in without touching the brake pedal.
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      09-17-2008, 05:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
You can go out of D but not back in without touching the brake pedal.
Sorry, you're right....
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      09-17-2008, 06:54 AM   #17
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Yeah but you can touch the brake so lightly that it is enough to disengage the selector lock without actually braking the car (or my car allows this anyway)
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      09-17-2008, 09:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyonn View Post
I've taken advanced driving lessons in the past and I've asked the above question to my instructors. The answer is, it depends how long you're waiting. if it's a fairly normal traffic light type wait, just hold on the brake. if it's a longer stop (maybe a railway crossing or somesuch) then put the handbrake on and stick it in neutral.

dave
why not put it in park.
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      09-17-2008, 09:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
why not put it in park.
heh, because when I asked the question, I was at a railway crossing in south manchester and it was a fairly steep slope. So it was neutral and handbrake to protect the gearbox Park pin.

however in general terms, you're correct, neutral or park is fine.

which brings me to a side question, why do automatic gearboxes have a park pin at all? why not just DNR? when you park, put it in N and use the handbrake?

the pin in Park is usually a tiny little bit of metal that I wouldn't trust to hold the car on anything other than a flat road.

I mean with it there, it's not a bad idea to use it when you do park (along with the handbrake), I'm just not sure why it is there in the first place?

dave
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      09-17-2008, 09:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyonn View Post
heh, because when I asked the question, I was at a railway crossing in south manchester and it was a fairly steep slope. So it was neutral and handbrake to protect the gearbox Park pin.

however in general terms, you're correct, neutral or park is fine.

which brings me to a side question, why do automatic gearboxes have a park pin at all? why not just DNR? when you park, put it in N and use the handbrake?

the pin in Park is usually a tiny little bit of metal that I wouldn't trust to hold the car on anything other than a flat road.

I mean with it there, it's not a bad idea to use it when you do park (along with the handbrake), I'm just not sure why it is there in the first place?

dave

As a new-'matic driver...that's all good info for me......i've not used my handbrake since i got the car and my drive is on a slight slope towards the house!

Will be using handbrake from now on!

Ta for that
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      09-17-2008, 03:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330cdsport View Post
Yeah but you can touch the brake so lightly that it is enough to disengage the selector lock without actually braking the car (or my car allows this anyway)
Mmmm.. time for some extra playing. I feel I'm getting a little lazy with D selected and the challenge of smooth on / off driving using Neutral appeals to my smooth driving preference...

I actually use the paddles a lot when I'm in D to keep the engine on the boil. It's always nice when suddenly you have to pull in behind a few cars that it simply resumes the sedate auto.

One other issue that I have is that even in DS, it still fiddles with the selection when it believes the revs get too low. The auto change at the redline is useful(ish), but if I want to select 3rd or 4th at slow speeds, then I'd like it to stay that way... shame there's no real over ride like that on the DTC
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      09-17-2008, 05:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weez View Post
No clutch in an auto transmission.
It is perfectly fine to keep your foot on the brake whilst stationary. Thats what the torque converter is for. It allows the engine to spin independently of the transmission when idling. Very little torque/stress will pass through the converter when idling. Therefore, only the slightest amount of brake is required to hold still at idle. But when you step on the gas, the engine speeds up and pumps more fluid into the torque converter causing more torque to be transmitted to the wheels. Automatic transmissions are designed for this and its perfectly fine. This shouldnt have any affect on your fuel economy either as you are idling at the same RPM and going no where.
The only reason to put it in park or neutral w/handbrake is to rest your foot
There are clutch packs in auto transmissions Knocking it into neutral disconnected the front hydraulic pump on the previous generation ZF boxes, allowing the wet clutches to dry out, enhahancing clutch/brake band wear. As a result, i usually leave mine in gear.
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