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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Let's Have a Brake Fluid Discussion!



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      10-05-2008, 05:57 PM   #1
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Talking Let's Have a Brake Fluid Discussion!

Wow, so many "Discussions."

I took my car to the dealer and got a 328 loaner.
It was kind of nice not shifting for a change.
When I stepped on the brake for my first stop, I almost went through the windshield.
I just couldn't believe how sensitive those brakes were.

Here I am with Rotora 6 pot/4 pots and the 328 brakes seem better than mine.
OK, I know, I know the amount of pistons doesn't equal a quicker and better single stop, but it made me very curious about my brake lines.
It made me ask:
Do I have air in the line?
Do I just need a flush?
Is it because of my latest track run at Fontana?

There are a couple questions that I have for you guys:

1. What brake fluid do you use?
2. How often do you guys bleed your brakes/What is the recommended interval if you are occasionally tracking?
3. Since the clutch is using the same fluid as the brakes and since it's tied to the master cylinder, then do you bleed the clutch as well?
4. Is it normal for the fluid to be a blackish color during the first couple pumps of bleeding?

I really like the idea of ATE with the blue/amber to tell when the new fluid has filled the line.
For those who are using the Motul RBF 600, how do you know when your new fluid has run its course?

I received 2 bottles of Motul RBF600 when I installed the Rotoras. I used them to fill up the Master when I was bleeding the lines but I had no idea with what was stock and what was the Motul during the bleeding process.

**I also really like the idea of the speedbleaders. I highly recommend this to those who don't need the extra gadgets laying around in the garage.
http://www.speedbleeder.com/
I installed these on my Rotoras to keep the bleeding process to a 1 man job.

I know the process of the farthest away from the Master first so I bled in this order:

Pass Rear
Driver Rear
Pass Front
Driver Front

So, teach me some more.
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      10-05-2008, 07:11 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post

There are a couple questions that I have for you guys:

1. What brake fluid do you use?
2. How often do you guys bleed your brakes/What is the recommended interval if you are occasionally tracking?
3. Since the clutch is using the same fluid as the brakes and since it's tied to the master cylinder, then do you bleed the clutch as well?
4. Is it normal for the fluid to be a blackish color during the first couple pumps of bleeding?

For those who are using the Motul RBF 600, how do you know when your new fluid has run its course?


**I also really like the idea of the speedbleaders. I highly recommend this to those who don't need the extra gadgets laying around in the garage.
http://www.speedbleeder.com/
I installed these on my Rotoras to keep the bleeding process to a 1 man job.

I know the process of the farthest away from the Master first so I bled in this order:

Pass Rear
Driver Rear
Pass Front
Driver Front

So, teach me some more.
+1 for Motul 600 (great high temp fluid) and bleed after every event (especially in humid environments). When flushing the brake fluid, the new fluid will be lighter and clearer than the old fluid. Prior to the flush, put a bit of the new fluid in the clear container used for the disposal of the old fluid so you can see the difference. A few taps with a rubber mallet to the caliper gets rid of those "sticky" air bubbles.

I use the power bleeder by Motive, very easy to use (you know the order of the bleed). I don't like those speedbleeders.

I don't think I've had "black fluid" but it is a bit darker than new brake fluid.

I bet you just have some air in there.
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      10-06-2008, 06:38 PM   #3
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Random thoughts:

-what pads are using? if you are using a pad that is heavily skewed towards track you might not be heating them up enough. I had a pair of carbotech panther plus a while back that took a couple of stops before really grabbed hard

-if you overheated the brake fluid last track day, that would introduce air and require a flush

-maybe your aftermarket stuff just uses more pedal travel than stock (that doesn't mean it stops worse..)

-i used ATE blue in an old car and no problems but i've heard others have problems with staining.. currently using BMW OE stuff

-flush at least once per year if you drive very hard often
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      10-06-2008, 09:11 PM   #4
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what is the weight difference between your car and the 328? few hundred lbs? might make the difference...varied weight distribution?
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      10-06-2008, 09:37 PM   #5
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Motul RBF 600

As stated above, you should notice the new fluid being clear. Do it in good lighting. More importantly wait for all the air bubbles to flush out. I also used one of those pressure bleeders, recruiting the wife for crap like this = divorce. Most people do it at least once a year or when the pedals start to feel spongy.

edit: Black fluid = change it sooner? After 3-4 track days/1 year become a dark amber.
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      10-06-2008, 11:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Wow, so many "Discussions."

I took my car to the dealer and got a 328 loaner.
It was kind of nice not shifting for a change.
When I stepped on the brake for my first stop, I almost went through the windshield.
I just couldn't believe how sensitive those brakes were.

Here I am with Rotora 6 pot/4 pots and the 328 brakes seem better than mine.
OK, I know, I know the amount of pistons doesn't equal a quicker and better single stop, but it made me very curious about my brake lines.
It made me ask:
Do I have air in the line?
Do I just need a flush?
Is it because of my latest track run at Fontana?

There are a couple questions that I have for you guys:

1. What brake fluid do you use?
2. How often do you guys bleed your brakes/What is the recommended interval if you are occasionally tracking?
3. Since the clutch is using the same fluid as the brakes and since it's tied to the master cylinder, then do you bleed the clutch as well?
4. Is it normal for the fluid to be a blackish color during the first couple pumps of bleeding?

I really like the idea of ATE with the blue/amber to tell when the new fluid has filled the line.
For those who are using the Motul RBF 600, how do you know when your new fluid has run its course?

I received 2 bottles of Motul RBF600 when I installed the Rotoras. I used them to fill up the Master when I was bleeding the lines but I had no idea with what was stock and what was the Motul during the bleeding process.

**I also really like the idea of the speedbleaders. I highly recommend this to those who don't need the extra gadgets laying around in the garage.
http://www.speedbleeder.com/
I installed these on my Rotoras to keep the bleeding process to a 1 man job.

I know the process of the farthest away from the Master first so I bled in this order:

Pass Rear
Driver Rear
Pass Front
Driver Front

So, teach me some more.
1. What brake fluid do you use?

Motul RBF600 is great, but you will need to bleed or flush it before each event.

Use Castrol SRF and you can do less flushing just couple pumps to get rid of the air since it has a very high wet boiling temp. Dry boiling point of 590F (Wet 518F)


2. How often do you guys bleed your brakes/What is the recommended interval if you are occasionally tracking?

Do it for every event since your brake fluid would have collected moisture over time.

3. Since the clutch is using the same fluid as the brakes and since it's tied to the master cylinder, then do you bleed the clutch as well?

Once or twice a year on the clutch is enough.

4. Is it normal for the fluid to be a blackish color during the first couple pumps of bleeding?


No, you must not have bleed or flush your brake fluid in a long time....more than a year or two?
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      10-07-2008, 09:53 AM   #7
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I ordered another few pints of Motul 600 and I'm going to flush the complete system, including the clutch.

It hasn't been a year but I will say that I never completely flushed the system.
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      10-07-2008, 10:07 AM   #8
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that new bmw brake sensitivity is awesome. I remember the car had it when it was new, then it was gone. It came back after the dealer put new pads on all 4 corners. But, after one angry morning in the hills, it was back to a "normal car" brake feel. If you put some angry miles on the 328, I suspect it will lose the hair trigger.

I'm gonna bleed brakes today. 5k miles, 5 track days, 1 auto cross, lots of hills. Hopefully my RBF600 doesn't look too bad. No fade issues ever.
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      10-07-2008, 06:07 PM   #9
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I'm about to do mine, but probably won't go with RBF600. I just don't track enough and get the fluid hot enough. AutoXing all day, the sessions are short enough that the brakes recover quickly. I'll probably go with a DOT4 fluid or OEM even.
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      10-07-2008, 06:56 PM   #10
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Used ATE on my last vehicle. Very happy with the results, but the blue did stain my brake container.
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      10-07-2008, 08:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
If you put some angry miles on the 328, I suspect it will lose the hair trigger. .
Nope
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      10-08-2008, 12:54 PM   #12
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I use the Motul RBF 600 - Love it and really helped out, has a dry boiling point of 593F. +1

[IMG]http://www.**********s.com/prod_img/MotulBrakeFluid_MW_1207666063.jpg[/IMG]
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      06-08-2009, 12:30 AM   #13
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HP Autowerks question

I am wondering about Motul 600 and HP Autowerks suggestion that you change the brake fluid after EVERY event if you use it. I have the stock fluid right now, but plan on upgrading soon. If I do one event a month, I should change my brake fluid once a month? If I get more serious about it and start doing two events a months I should change my brake fluid every two weeks??

This sounds like overkill to me, I would imagine it should be more like one or twice a year, or at the most everytime you change your pads. Why do you prefer the Castrol SRF? Do you recommnd changing your fluid as often if you use Castrol instead of Motul?
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      08-20-2009, 12:21 AM   #14
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So what spec brake fluid is OE? DOT 4? I was thinking of getting ATE Super Blue, but where I live tends to get very humid during the summer and I would like a brake fluid that has a higher wet boiling point.

However, I read that it is not a good idea to mix brake fluids when flushing the system, so we should stick with DOT 4 fluid. What rating is the Motul and ATE? Which would be better and last longer in a hot, humid environment and maybe 1 or two track days a year?
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