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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Wastegate Ticking Resolved Without Getting 29.2! Works With 29.2 As Well!



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      10-06-2008, 09:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by GGreek5 View Post
I hear ticking when I start the car in the morning. If I rev it, it goes away, but at idle I hear it. Its pretty distinct. Could this be the wastegate rattle??
I have the same, just 850 miles on the car. It sounds like a diesel at cold idle.
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      10-06-2008, 09:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGreek5 View Post
I hear ticking when I start the car in the morning. If I rev it, it goes away, but at idle I hear it. Its pretty distinct. Could this be the wastegate rattle??
rev the engine to lets say 4k RPM, when it decels, listen to hear for a flutter or ticking sound. (not during the up rev, but revs coming back down is when you should hear it)
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      10-06-2008, 09:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
I have the same, just 850 miles on the car. It sounds like a diesel at cold idle.
what was your build date?
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      10-06-2008, 09:56 AM   #26
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I disagree with this.
The reason that was told to me by a very knowledgable BMW technician (just in case you're reading the thread )is that the rod actually loosens over time by itself.
So, I will bet you that when my car starts ticking again, it will be close to the same position where it was before I adjusted it.

Also, just to let you guys know, I drove to work this morning and the wastegates are working perfectly!
Just before I went into work, I stopped at the gas station and reved it a couple times just so I can hear just the engine.

Sorry if I am mis-reading here, but are you saying that the rod itself lossens out from the end adjuster by itself?

i had a idea or i was pretty sure it was the actuator slowly failing and not pushing or for this matter, pulling in the Actuator arm inside enough to make a full close of the wastegate.

btw i forgot to thank you for the hard work/dedication and knowledge you are sharing.
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      10-06-2008, 10:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post
I agree this could be a fix for those whose actuators aren't failing, but if your actuator is failing (does not have the power to close the wastegate), I don't see how this is anything but a temporary fix.
I understand what you're saying now. You are correct. If the actuator is failing due to the actuator not being able to hold the vacuum then this will not work.
But I'll tell you about my experience.
I already had the actuators replaced and luckily it was before the new program came out.
The dealer told me that the actuators were failing. IMO, the actuators were not failing. The same thing happened with that actuator as with what's happening with this one. The rod loosens over time.
I'm 99.999% sure that I could have just adjusted the rod and it would have been solved very quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGreek5 View Post
I hear ticking when I start the car in the morning. If I rev it, it goes away, but at idle I hear it. Its pretty distinct. Could this be the wastegate rattle??
If the ticking goes away after a couple minutes then the ticking that you are hearing is most likely the FSI working in the engine.

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Originally Posted by clivem2 View Post
I have the same, just 850 miles on the car. It sounds like a diesel at cold idle.
Same as what I said above.

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Originally Posted by 5soko335i View Post
Sorry if I am mis-reading here, but are you saying that the rod itself lossens out from the end adjuster by itself?

i had a idea or i was pretty sure it was the actuator slowly failing and not pushing or for this matter, pulling in the Actuator arm inside enough to make a full close of the wastegate.

btw i forgot to thank you for the hard work/dedication and knowledge you are sharing.
no-no.
I didn't mean you were mis-reading. I was talking about if my tech friend was reading the thread.
But yes, is most cases the acutator rod comes loose and actually loosens itself a tad at a time.
If you think about the mechanics of the rod and the nut (sounds a bit wierd huh), the nut is there to mainly prevent the rod from tightening anymore than it should, but there is really nothing there to prevent the rod from loosening.
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      10-06-2008, 10:32 AM   #28
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can you reach both of them under the hood (from above the engine) or did you have to go under it and take stuff out to get to both actuators?
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      10-06-2008, 10:42 AM   #29
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Congrats on finding a mechanical fix for this issue.

However I am pissed at BMW
It seems like we should start a class action suit against BMW for de-tuning our cars with a software update.
I bought this car based on the way it performed, and instead of repairing the failed mechanical part BMW lowered performance and induced turbo lag to cover up the failed part.

This is obviously a design flaw in this wastegate actuator. BMW should be replacing these with a newer updated design that will be much more robust.
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      10-06-2008, 10:47 AM   #30
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any possible way that we can meet up sometime and u help me out with this? ill drive to u. ill take ya to lunch or something.?

PM me and let me know.
thanks!
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      10-06-2008, 10:54 AM   #31
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can you reach both of them under the hood (from above the engine) or did you have to go under it and take stuff out to get to both actuators?
Both of them? No, but I already said that most of the time, it is only the rear acutator is coming loose.
The front actuator rod is fine and it looks like there is no way that these can be adjusted unless you take the front turbo off since the rod is in between the turbo and the block.

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any possible way that we can meet up sometime and u help me out with this? ill drive to u. ill take ya to lunch or something.?

PM me and let me know.
thanks!
Sorry but no. I had a bad experience recently with working on another car. Everything worked out fine but it changed my way of thinking about working on another person's car.
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      10-06-2008, 10:55 AM   #32
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Will a rattling wastgate destroy ( crush ) it's seating over time ?

Thanks,
Eugen
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      10-06-2008, 11:00 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Sorry but no. I had a bad experience recently with working on another car. Everything worked out fine but it changed my way of thinking about working on another person's car.
i understand.
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      10-06-2008, 11:06 AM   #34
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[size="5"]
The first thing you need to do is loosen the 10mm nut.
Second, you need to find a wrench that's small enough to fit in the groove of the rod. I actually made one using a regular piece of scrap metal in the garage and a dremel to cut a groove in it since I don't have tools that small.
Once you have the tool, tighten the rod a couple revolutions (this is subjective because some ticking could be worse than others). Of course, you don't want to tighten the rod up that much since the wastegates still need to open.
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
no-no.
I didn't mean you were mis-reading. I was talking about if my tech friend was reading the thread.
But yes, is most cases the acutator rod comes loose and actually loosens itself a tad at a time.
If you think about the mechanics of the rod and the nut (sounds a bit wierd huh), the nut is there to mainly prevent the rod from tightening anymore than it should, but there is really nothing there to prevent the rod from loosening.
If the rod loosened itself, wouldn't the nut be loose as well? Are you sure changing the length (by tightening) of the rod doesn't change the operation of the wastegates?
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      10-06-2008, 11:14 AM   #35
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i had the idea that the Actuator rod itself CAN NOT twist or even turn since the other end of the Actuator arm which is in the actuator is on a stuck position which doesnt move. so in fact the Actuator arm is in a fixed position which doesnt turn.

the only thing that turns is the Actuator adjustment end, which is held tight by a NUT.
is this thinking wrong.
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      10-06-2008, 11:16 AM   #36
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ultimate long term solution is for some company to release aftermarket wastegates....
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      10-06-2008, 11:24 AM   #37
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If the rod loosened itself, wouldn't the nut be loose as well? Are you sure changing the length (by tightening) of the rod doesn't change the operation of the wastegates?
Not if the nut is stuck to the other linkage.
Think of the nut's threads being the same threads as what the rod is screwed into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko335i View Post
i had the idea that the Actuator rod itself CAN NOT twist or even turn since the other end of the Actuator arm which is in the actuator is on a stuck position which doesnt move. so in fact the Actuator arm is in a fixed position which doesnt turn.

the only thing that turns is the Actuator adjustment end, which is held tight by a NUT.
is this thinking wrong.
If the rod is in a fixed positiion then how come I can twist the rod when I was tightening it?
The rod does and can twist.
Remember, when I loosen the 10mm nut, I don't loosen anything else.
All I do after the nut is loosened is tighten the rod.
Notice the 3 bolts/nuts that are on the actuator. These never get removed.
The rod gets turned inside the acutator.
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      10-06-2008, 11:31 AM   #38
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For those who are having a hard time believing that this works, do me a favor and picture this--please.

I was talking to my friend at work and I was thinking of this as a pair of sunglasses.
Have you guys ever had the screw come loose in a pair of sunglasses?
When you open and shut a pair of sunglasses, the screw that holds the arms of the sunglass is supposed to move with the movement of the arm, but as we all know, the screw comes loose over time.
Why? Sometimes the screw doesn't always move with the sunglasses.
Sometimes the screw stays still for a split second while the arm keeps moving.
Why doesn't the screw tighten? Because there is more resistance with the screw tightening rather than loosening.
The next thing you know is that you open your sunglasses one day and they are broken.

This is what you need to think about:
The actuator rod is moving back and forth in a jerky motion.
The rod can easily twist while everything else is fixed.
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      10-06-2008, 12:03 PM   #39
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I did it with absolutely no problems from the top, and it took me about 35 minutes.
Just make sure that your engine is cold since you will seriosuly fry your left arm on the exhaust side.



This is very true. Make sure you don't strip anything or do any sloppy work.
As far as taking the DPs off just to do this?... I wouldn't go that far but if you are very worried about everything then it won't hurt.
The wastegate travels quite a bit before it closes.
It doesn't need to open that much until the exhaust will take the path of least resisteance and go through the hole.

Honesly, I probably went a little too far with my 2.5 rotations, but I just wanted to be sure.
There's nothing wrong with tightening it a bit, start your car and listen.
If you still hear the sound then wait for it to cool down and do it again.
When you are in this process, the 10mm nut doesn't have to be tightened until the process is complete.
I will try to get the nut loose again later, I assume you turn the rod counter clockwise looking at this from the top?
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      10-06-2008, 12:09 PM   #40
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I will try to get the nut loose again later, I assume you turn the rod counter clockwise looking at this from the top?
Depending on you're point of reference.
You want to turn the wrench towards the engine to loosen.
Righty-tighty lefty-loosey.
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      10-06-2008, 12:34 PM   #41
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looks to me that there is enough throw in the adj. rod to keep the wastgate closed all the time elimianting lag!!!! hmmmm????
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      10-06-2008, 12:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
For those who are having a hard time believing that this works, do me a favor and picture this--please.

I was talking to my friend at work and I was thinking of this as a pair of sunglasses.
Have you guys ever had the screw come loose in a pair of sunglasses?
When you open and shut a pair of sunglasses, the screw that holds the arms of the sunglass is supposed to move with the movement of the arm, but as we all know, the screw comes loose over time.
Why? Sometimes the screw doesn't always move with the sunglasses.
Sometimes the screw stays still for a split second while the arm keeps moving.
Why doesn't the screw tighten? Because there is more resistance with the screw tightening rather than loosening.
The next thing you know is that you open your sunglasses one day and they are broken.

This is what you need to think about:
The actuator rod is moving back and forth in a jerky motion.
The rod can easily twist while everything else is fixed.
This concept is simple- the wastegate actuator rod looks just like a tie rod or old fashioned throttle linkage. One end (vacuum diaphragm)of the rod will usually be allowed to spin freely while the other end has the rod end and jam nut snapped onto the lever arm of the wastegate. If you tighten down the jam nut properly, nothing is going to move. It won't get tighter or loosen over time.

That's ideal. But in reality if the jam nut isn't tight enough things could loosen esp if there's a bit of vibration or dissimilar metals involved. The simple way that you stop this is to just put a little thread locking compound on the threads and you're done.

Anything that gets vibration can loose and OEMs usually put thread locking paste on them (flywheel bolts, harmonic balancers, accessory pullies etc). A popular brand is permatex locktite. Just make sure you get the high-temp one (red). http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...eadlockers.htm

If the actuator rod still needs to be adjusted after threadlocking paste is put on it, the linkage isn't loosening and changing length at the rod/rod-end/jam nut area but rather one of the anchors at either end.

Mr 5: thanks as always for your very useful tips!

BB
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      10-06-2008, 12:43 PM   #43
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what was your build date?
Late July 08.
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      10-06-2008, 01:01 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by BavarianBullet View Post
This concept is simple- the wastegate actuator rod looks just like a tie rod or old fashioned throttle linkage. One end (vacuum diaphragm)of the rod will usually be allowed to spin freely while the other end has the rod end and jam nut snapped onto the lever arm of the wastegate. If you tighten down the jam nut properly, nothing is going to move. It won't get tighter or loosen over time.

That's ideal. But in reality if the jam nut isn't tight enough things could loosen esp if there's a bit of vibration or dissimilar metals involved. The simple way that you stop this is to just put a little thread locking compound on the threads and you're done.

Anything that gets vibration can loose and OEMs usually put thread locking paste on them (flywheel bolts, harmonic balancers, accessory pullies etc). A popular brand is permatex locktite. Just make sure you get the high-temp one (red). http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...eadlockers.htm

If the actuator rod still needs to be adjusted after threadlocking paste is put on it, the linkage isn't loosening and changing length at the rod/rod-end/jam nut area but rather one of the anchors at either end.

Mr 5: thanks as always for your very useful tips!

BB
I was thinking about this but I was worried that the high temp thread locking wasn't high temp enough.
The wastegate rod gets extremely hot.
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