Robbing the e92 M3 for suspension parts - Page 3 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

darkphantom · 10-13-2008, 02:13 PM

Going back to the question of the differential - why wouldn't we just get the quaife differential over the M3 one?

rubber_ducky · 10-13-2008, 02:29 PM

Can you please expand on this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

...I measure up the M3 strut bar today and it should fit so I order the parts ( http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...61&hg=51&fg=75 ). This design is superior to any straight cross over bar from a mechanical stiffness point of view and much lighter. You need every part of the RealOEM listed page and for item #6 you need the 12 mm bolt.

Orb

...is the 12mm bolt different than the part number listed?

Thanks in advance.

Orb · 10-13-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephkao

Can someone confirm if these are all the parts that I need for E90.

Front control arms:

• WISHBONE, LEFT - 31102283577 - Qty 1 Price on Tischer is about $90@
• WISHBONE, RIGHT – 31102283578 - Qty 1

Rear sub-frame:

• RUBBER MOUNTING FRONT – 33312283382 - Qty 2 Price on Tischer is about $60@
• RUBBER MOUNTING REAR – 33312283383 - Qty 2

Is there anyone have installed this parts. Please do a review.....................

That all the parts you need. The install cost is about 7 hours.

Orb

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

Thanks for confirming. It has been hit and miss with M3 parts so far....95% of the parts are exact match minus the sloppy bushing in our cars. I have been seriously considering doing the whole M3 suspension change out but it means I have to do the brakes as well and it about 3000.00.

That front strut bar will be at least 5x stiffer than the tower to tower ones.

Orb

Done! It was done as soon as the M3 parts were available! Had it on the car since Bimmerfest 2008, no one even noticed it!

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky

Can you please expand on this?

...is the 12mm bolt different than the part number listed?

Thanks in advance.

I recommend using all bolts with no studs. Otherwise the studs will not clear the cowling.

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shyestsparks

Here's what I ordered (from an E90 M3):

51-617-900-821 ring strut tower brace left
51-617-900-822 ring strut tower brace right
51-618-044-553 strut brace x2
51-618-045-860 mount for brace
51-618-046-445 stud x2
51-717-898-374 stud x4
07-119-904-401 hex bolt x2
07-146-954-965 ASA bolt w/ circlip
07-146-963-730 torx bolt x2
51-717-895-241 hex nut x6
31-316-769-731 self locking collar nut x6
51-617-891-281 cover cap x2

Hopefully this helps.

Nice! How is the methanol injection coming along?

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sambonator

So does the rear differential from an M3 fit on a 335?

Sure, add the M3 rear subframe for easier installation!

rubber_ducky · 10-13-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

I recommend using all bolts with no studs. Otherwise the studs will not clear the cowling.

I haven't yet removed the cowling on my car...

Does the stock 335i setup use a bolt?

According to the realoem diagram, there are two part numbers for no. 6:

ASA-BOLT WITH CIRCLIP (M12X1.5X39) qty 1
&
TORX BOLT (M10X16-10.9-) qty 2

...It doesn't look like the mount itself is fastened with 3 bolts, but that might just be the picture. In any case, both parts appear to bolts. Are these what I need to mount this on a 335 and still clear the plastic cowling?

Lastly, should this be installed while the car is in an allignment machine?

Orb · 10-13-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Done! It was done as soon as the M3 parts were available! Had it on the car since Bimmerfest 2008, no one even noticed it!

I only started thinking about this since all the suspension parts are the same for center to center and form. I did not get much time measure things up perfectly but let us know if the whole M3 rear suspension is transferable minus the sub frame….I’m sure this has crossed your mind.

Orb

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

I got some more interesting stuff to come. I have been busy correcting the KW v3 with yet another set of new spring and modified camber plate. The KW camber plates are very well design and have 7300 PSI axial load limit spherical bearing. The design also uses a separate thrust bearings which are noise resistance. The KW camber plate stack height was off a lot so after testing the isolator. I recalculated the proper nominal stack height that accounts for the isolator deflection. I also reclaimed 5 mm of suspension travel that was lost. This was all so important to getting the right ride height and spring preload. These plates have 0.7 degrees of addition caster built in so I will be running 7.9 degrees caster.

A few pictures of the 2nd iteration of the camber plate modifications. I haven’t put the studs in yet as I just picked them up. I post more in another thread when I finished testing the new setup and bushings.

Orb

Give TC Kline camber/castor plates a try, you will see about +9 degrees of castor!

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

I'm not sure it would be worth doing any other bushing on this car as the other ones are the same as the M3. If you go with really stiff race spring then it might be worth it but it is better to balance out the system. To stiff of bushings and the car with resonate all over the body which will be a function of spring rate as well. It is best to be safe and do a modest upgrade.

The rubber strut top mounts need to go. The for and aft movement in these have large deflections as well and with the combination of the stock lower control arm mean huge under steer when pushed hard. I am finally on the last leg of the road getting this best to handle at the track.

Orb

I am sure you did your home work, but you left out the front thrust arms!

That is a major weak point in the 335i and can cause the car to lose much needed castor!

Orb · 10-13-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

I am sure you did your home work, but you left out the front thrust arms!

That is a major weak point in the 335i and can cause the car to lose much needed castor!

You mean these parts....have them.

WISHBONE, LEFT 1 31102283577
RIGHT WISHBONE 1 31102283578

Orb

Josephkao · 10-13-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

That all the parts you need. The install cost is about 7 hours.

Orb

7 hours is a lot of labor to pay. How much labor can I save it while I have it done together with shock and sway bar installation.

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

I only started thinking about this since all the suspension parts are the same for center to center and form. I did not get much time measure things up perfectly but let us know if the whole M3 rear suspension is transferable minus the sub frame….I’m sure this has crossed your mind.

Orb

We didn't see a need to use any of the M3 rear suspension links as most are similar to the 335i, minus the lower control arm and maybe one other link. Our R&D stopped there....can't really tell you of all links will swap over.

The front links and thrust arms are much more criticle in keeping alignment in check and get rid some of that understeer.

As with the rear subframe mounts....you are on the right track!

This will take away all the funny business the rear-end is trying to do! Minus the dog-leg burnout of course. You will need a Quaife ATB or similar LSD for that.

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

You mean these parts....have them.

WISHBONE, LEFT 1 31102283577
RIGHT WISHBONE 1 31102283578

Orb

No, I meant the tension struts! Have you already done the wishbones?

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky

I haven't yet removed the cowling on my car...

Does the stock 335i setup use a bolt?

According to the realoem diagram, there are two part numbers for no. 6:

ASA-BOLT WITH CIRCLIP (M12X1.5X39) qty 1
&
TORX BOLT (M10X16-10.9-) qty 2

...It doesn't look like the mount itself is fastened with 3 bolts, but that might just be the picture. In any case, both parts appear to bolts. Are these what I need to mount this on a 335 and still clear the plastic cowling?

Lastly, should this be installed while the car is in an allignment machine?

No, #4 is what you should worry about. See where #5 is? Use a bolt there, not a stud. The hole next to it as well, use a bolt not a stud. Otherwise the cowling will have a hard time seating correctly as there is no relieve for the studs or bolts. The bolts will have a lower profile, thus more clearance to the cowling.

Orb · 10-13-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Give TC Kline camber/castor plates a try, you will see about +9 degrees of castor!

Not to impressed with TC Kline execution for engineering point of view. It is important to separate the thrust and rotation components from the pivot bearing for smooth operation, noise and longevity. The KW camber plates are noise free. The compact thrust bearing will withstand loads well above 10,000 PSI and is very compact (they are using a RBC slim pack thrust bearing). They have also incorporate some radial compliance for the thrust bearing so bending moments for the spring are not induce into the damping rod which keeps things smoother and it also keep noise to a minimum. The spherical bearing doesn’t rotate it just pivots. The load rating on the bearing is 7300 PSI and will last for long time in this configuration.

The custom plates I had made up and starting point but I don’t want to put to much caster in either not should one go past 1 degree from default settings but i can make the plates accept 9 degrees of caster. Very low speeds suffer with to much castor so I willing to trade off a bit for my day to day drive.

Orb

Orb · 10-13-2008, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

No, I meant the tension struts! Have you already done the wishbones?

Yes, the front tension struts have been done as this was in my first post in this thread.

The stock front tension strut in combination with the top rubber mounts makes the whole thing a horror show. The car was totally design to induce under steer at the limit. By removing one of the parts it will help reduce under steer but the tension strut is a better choice

Orb

Orb · 10-13-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

We didn't see a need to use any of the M3 rear suspension links as most are similar to the 335i, minus the lower control arm and maybe one other link. Our R&D stopped there....can't really tell you of all links will swap over.

The front links and thrust arms are much more criticle in keeping alignment in check and get rid some of that understeer.

As with the rear subframe mounts....you are on the right track!

This will take away all the funny business the rear-end is trying to do! Minus the dog-leg burnout of course. You will need a Quaife ATB or similar LSD for that.

I had the first Quaife in NA so that is not a problem. I am pretty close getting this car setup now but one problem is linked to the next and these bushing have to go as they will not work with stiffer springs predictably. Thanks for the info BTW….

Orb

HP Autowerks · 10-13-2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orb

Yes, the front tension struts have been done as this was in my first post in this thread.

The stock front tension strut in combination with the top rubber mounts makes the whole thing a horror show. The car was totally design to induce under steer at the limit. By removing one of the parts it will help reduce under steer but the tension strut is a better choice

Orb

I guess I must have missed it.

We have eliminated the stock tension strut as well as soon as the M3 component was available.

Perhaps I should put this together as a understeer reduce kit!

Harold

meshguy · 10-14-2008, 01:21 AM

This thread is mostly over my head, so bear with me, guys.

Which M3 parts would you recommend for someone with an e92 335 with KWV2's who does not track their car but wants tighter/firmer/improved handling characteristics for the street?

Just from what I have been able to gather from this thread, I am interested in front and rear M3 bushings (I assume I cannot re-use my stock control arms, and need to order the M3 arms?), strut bar, and front and rear isolators that Orb mentioned were "slop city." What else should I be looking at? Im not interested in the rear diff. Also Orb mentioned "thrust arms", but posted "wishbone" part numbers - does the wishbone include control arms and thrust arms? Im such a noob, I know.

ironic · 10-14-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Sure, add the M3 rear subframe for easier installation!

i thought someone had confirmed that the m3 diff would not fit our cars, although i don't remember the reason behind it exactly.

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10-13-2008, 02:13 PM	#45
darkphantom Banned Drives: E93 335i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The place for Bimmers Posts: 5,955 iTrader: (4)	Going back to the question of the differential - why wouldn't we just get the quaife differential over the M3 one?

10-14-2008, 01:21 AM	#65
meshguy Private Drives: e92 335 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SE Posts: 88 iTrader: (0)	This thread is mostly over my head, so bear with me, guys. Which M3 parts would you recommend for someone with an e92 335 with KWV2's who does not track their car but wants tighter/firmer/improved handling characteristics for the street? Just from what I have been able to gather from this thread, I am interested in front and rear M3 bushings (I assume I cannot re-use my stock control arms, and need to order the M3 arms?), strut bar, and front and rear isolators that Orb mentioned were "slop city." What else should I be looking at? Im not interested in the rear diff. Also Orb mentioned "thrust arms", but posted "wishbone" part numbers - does the wishbone include control arms and thrust arms? Im such a noob, I know.