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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Robbing the e92 M3 for suspension parts



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      12-01-2008, 07:05 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
Yes, but it depends what your goals are. The full kit here -- rear bushings, front tension rods, & wishbone/control arms -- will significantly tighten up the handling and steering response. If you want to feel the road, this is your baby. If you want some isolation, you might want dampers with a bit of softness to them, like Koni fsds, but that is moving in the opposite direction. More performance oriented dampers & springs like Bilstein PSS10s will accentuate the gains made with the M3 parts.

My plan is to stick with all BMW parts, similar to Mr.5. BMW performance dampers and springs, M-sport rear sway, M3 bushings, tension rods, control arms, and strut brace. I also plan to fit the OEM E92 (I have an E90) rear chassis brace to provide a little more stability and strength to the rear platform. My thinking here is that this should provide a system fairly close to what BMW engineers came up with for the M3 and M-sport versions of the E90, I keep the warranty, and I might recoup more of the cost at resale.

That is one way to upgrade your suspension!
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      12-14-2008, 09:36 AM   #178
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So what are the proper tools? I would be willing to tackle this job on my own, even if it takes a whole day, but am not averse to reducing the amount of unnecessary cursing...
I did mine Friday and here is what I used.

21mm deep well socket for the ball joints.
18mm normal and deep well sockets for the frame mounts.
18mm and 21mm open end wrenches.
Big rubber mallet.
Torks drive to go in the top of the ball joints I donít know what size it is but its big.

Oh and a floor jack and jack stands.

It took me 3 hrs from start to finish but my car has a lot of miles on it and the wishbones were a pain to put in (on the sub frame side), but the tension struts were very easy less than 10 min a side. The wishbone to sub frame connections were very tight I had to beat them in with a rubber mallet.
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      12-14-2008, 04:46 PM   #179
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Always try and document jobs like this with photos for helpful DIYs for others that want to follow in your footsteps -- if you have any problems then we can help you troubleshoot more easily as well.
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      12-14-2008, 09:35 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Lane View Post
Would changing to all these M3 parts affect the choice of shocks?
I'm not sure you want to go this far or at least let someone like me suffer through this first with all the detail. I think Harold at HP Motorwerks will list all that works on his web site.

The toe link will not fit because of the offset on the rear hub. This is not a problem for me (see below) and one way or another it will be a complete M3 conversion plus a few extras that address the high motion ratio issues.

I’m really not sure how many people are interested in full blown conversion kit because the dampers to do this are going to cost 3500.00 from JRZ or Moton. With JRZ I can get the damper anyway I like.

Last edited by Orb; 11-25-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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      12-15-2008, 10:01 PM   #181
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Thumbs up

I took the plunge and installed the M3 front tension and wishbone links on my e93 this week. It was time for an alignment anyways due to my recent Koni FSD upgrade. My local BMW specialty garage charged 2 hours labor for the installation of the 4 links + front/rear alignment charge. The removed stock bushings in hand were slop in comparison to M3 links and felt like a spoon flopping around in thick cake batter.

Note to E93 owners: The part numbers are the same as the upgraded parts for the E90/92 as the E93 M3 shares these parts with it's M siblings.

The post-install alignment resulted in middle of stock range toe and caster and -1.2/-1.3 degrees of camber which is -0.7 more degrees than my last alignment on the same machine (and same alignment guru) with the stock suspension. So it seems this is a good way to dial-in some additional negative camber without going the full-blown camber plate route.

My first impressions are that the car is much crisper on turn-in and requires a bit more steering effort at lower speeds. The overall steering feeling is greatly improved and I have much better road feedback - particularly under higher cornering loads. Most notably, on my drive home today I noticed that left to right steering wiggle on a 4 mile section of the the I-80 from my overly stiff runflat tires tracking the concrete grooves was completely absent! This "swimming" is a daily annoyance for me so it's elimination was a very, very pleasant surprise.

As far as initial outright performance impressions, spirited city driving reveals significantly less understeer with more bite up front when the car is pushed hard into a corner. This was my biggest goal with this upgrade so I am very pleased. However, I will not really know the full performance benefits until I manage to do my next Skyline romp or upcoming track day at Thunderhill.

A big thanks to Orb for enlightening us all on the theory, working steps, and results of this upgrade. Also, a big thanks to Harold at HP Autowerks for additional support and getting the parts to me much sooner than expected.
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      12-16-2008, 12:47 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e93burner View Post
I took the plunge and installed the M3 front tension and wishbone links on my e93 this week. It was time for an alignment anyways due to my recent Koni FSD upgrade. My local BMW specialty garage charged 2 hours labor for the installation of the 4 links + front/rear alignment charge. The removed stock bushings in hand were slop in comparison to M3 links and felt like a spoon flopping around in thick cake batter.

Note to E93 owners: The part numbers are the same as the upgraded parts for the E90/92 as the E93 M3 shares these parts with it's M siblings.

The post-install alignment resulted in middle of stock range toe and caster and -1.2/-1.3 degrees of camber which is -0.7 more degrees than my last alignment on the same machine (and same alignment guru) with the stock suspension. So it seems this is a good way to dial-in some additional negative camber without going the full-blown camber plate route.

My first impressions are that the car is much crisper on turn-in and requires a bit more steering effort at lower speeds. The overall steering feeling is greatly improved and I have much better road feedback - particularly under higher cornering loads. Most notably, on my drive home today I noticed that left to right steering wiggle on a 4 mile section of the the I-80 from my overly stiff runflat tires tracking the concrete grooves was completely absent! This "swimming" is a daily annoyance for me so it's elimination was a very, very pleasant surprise.

As far as initial outright performance impressions, spirited city driving reveals significantly less understeer with more bite up front when the car is pushed hard into a corner. This was my biggest goal with this upgrade so I am very pleased. However, I will not really know the full performance benefits until I manage to do my next Skyline romp or upcoming track day at Thunderhill.

A big thanks to Orb for enlightening us all on the theory, working steps, and results of this upgrade. Also, a big thanks to Harold at HP Autowerks for additional support and getting the parts to me much sooner than expected.
Good to hear from another happy customer!
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      12-16-2008, 06:56 PM   #183
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      12-16-2008, 07:14 PM   #184
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do you recommend the tischer M3 suspension kit which sells for ~$400?
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      12-16-2008, 09:55 PM   #185
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do you recommend the tischer M3 suspension kit which sells for ~$400?
Alternatively, you can purchase them seperately as well.
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      12-17-2008, 02:56 PM   #186
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Quote:
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do you recommend the tischer M3 suspension kit which sells for ~$400?
Comparison shop among the various vendors. HP Autowerks and Tischer are good because they have all the parts that you need worked out and in their packages. You might want to consider whether you just want some of the parts and not all when you order. The rear bushings, e.g., are expensive to install.

You might also want to consider that the M3 bits in these kits are parts of a carefully engineered suspension package, including different springs, shocks, and sway bars than what are stock on the 335/328. So you might want to consider changes to those parts as well if you haven't already.
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      12-17-2008, 03:06 PM   #187
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Quote:
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do you recommend the tischer M3 suspension kit which sells for ~$400?
do you have a link to this? I cant find it on the tischer site.
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      12-17-2008, 09:44 PM   #188
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http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...47&startrow=51

page three of the E9x BMW accessories specials

PKE9XM3ARMS

You have to add the rear subframe bushings as an option if you want them.

Price is $405 for control arms and tension rods + $220 for bushings

This ($625) + the full performance (springs, shocks, rear sway) kit @ $980 = $1605.

The single best value for suspension modding that you can make, IMO.

Also note Harold's link above:
http://www.hpashop.com/category.sc?categoryId=113
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      12-17-2008, 10:01 PM   #189
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      12-21-2008, 12:55 PM   #190
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U-boat has a M3 rear subframe and final drive up for sale:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194678
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      12-22-2008, 02:33 AM   #191
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More R&D was done this weekend.

Will soon post(Commercial Sales section) what I found and what improvements you will see/feel.
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      12-22-2008, 12:42 PM   #192
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More R&D was done this weekend.

Will soon post(Commercial Sales section) what I found and what improvements you will see/feel.
You big tease!!!!!

Can't wait to see what you've come up with.....

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      12-22-2008, 01:24 PM   #193
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More R&D was done this weekend.

Will soon post(Commercial Sales section) what I found and what improvements you will see/feel.

Rear Guide rod kit?? Tell us more Harold!!
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      12-22-2008, 03:30 PM   #194
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Rear Guide rod kit?? Tell us more Harold!!
How did you find out? Only one other person knew about this and it wasn't you!
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      12-22-2008, 05:47 PM   #195
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How did I figure it out? I did some holiday window shopping in your store of course...
http://www.hpashop.com/product.sc?ca...3&productId=59
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      12-22-2008, 05:52 PM   #196
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How did I figure it out? I did some holiday window shopping in your store of course...
http://www.hpashop.com/product.sc?ca...3&productId=59
Oops! That should not have been published!
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      12-22-2008, 06:17 PM   #197
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The front M3 control arms are such a great upgrade I am excited to hear about the possibilities in the rear. I have lots of free garage time over the holidays for an install. Review Orb??
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      12-22-2008, 06:43 PM   #198
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The front M3 control arms are such a great upgrade I am excited to hear about the possibilities in the rear. I have lots of free garage time over the holidays for an install. Review Orb??
I am not saying anything....but suspect there is a lot more to come.

The big problem with 335i is the over compliant bushing and links with a high motion ratio. Addressing these issues allows the springs and dampers to work optimally which means smoother ride with after market system. You will be able to run higher rear spring rates than you could without them. Most importantly, you will increase feed back and grip no matter what your setup is. It is a win situation.

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