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      01-07-2009, 07:15 AM   #23
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"With the E90 an additional module, the FRM, is connected to the PT-CAN to
receive the brake light signal from the LDM." (p22 E90 Voltage Supply and Bus System.pdf)

--- Seems FRM only receive the brake light signal from the LDM, so it should be JBE to foward the MFL packet from PT-CAN to K-CAN. From another point of view, PT-CAN was not connected to FRM in the model before 2007.03, but the MFL has already been there.
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      01-07-2009, 08:55 AM   #24
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Now I think it is time to tap into the bus. FRM should be a nice point as HighVoltage said. But How to connect to the factory harness without cut the wire?




Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
Ok, I found a nice point to tap either the KCAN or PT-CAN. Located on the FRM. Note: DO NOT try to bridge these two CAN networks.

PT-CAN
-----------
CANH - Pin44
CANL - Pin43

K-CAN
-----------
CANH - Pin 46
CANL - Pin 45

Last edited by efunroom; 01-11-2009 at 09:30 AM.
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      01-15-2009, 02:21 PM   #25
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The point on the FRM is good for a permanent connection but if you are interested in just developing/debugging then the overhead ultrasonic sensor on the E90 is arguably the easiest to access.
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      01-16-2009, 11:24 AM   #26
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I tapped into K-CAN from PDC. But software only showed the following messages. Some other software showed 'CAN-BUS error'

Time Rx/Tx ArbID Byte 1 Byte 2 Byte 3 Byte 4
455.7365 Rx 0 0 0 0
455.7424 Rx 0 0 1 0
455.7425 Rx 0 0 9 0
455.7426 Rx 0 0 13 0
455.7426 Rx 0 0 1B 0
455.7427 Rx 0 0 1C 0
455.7428 Rx 0 0 24 0
455.7429 Rx 0 0 2D 0
455.743 Rx 0 0 2E 0
455.743 Rx 0 0 36 0
455.7431 Rx 0 0 3F 0
455.7432 Rx 0 0 47 0
455.7433 Rx 0 0 48 0
455.7434 Rx 0 0 59 0
455.7435 Rx 0 3 61 0
455.7436 Rx 0 3 62 0
455.7437 Rx 0 3 6A 0
455.7438 Rx 0 3 6B 0
455.7438 Rx 0 3 7C 0
455.7439 Rx 0 8 85 0

----------------------------------------------------
Use multimeter to test the voltage of K-CAN.
1) Multimeter + connected to CAN-HIGH
- connected to CAN-HOW
Votage is - 4.3V
2) Multimeter + connected to CAN-LOW
- connected to CAN-HIGH
Votage is + 4.3V

Is it normal?
-----------------------------------------------------

If cut the wire of CAN-LOW, PDC still works, unless cut the CAN-HIGH wire. why?
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      01-16-2009, 03:19 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efunroom View Post
I tapped into K-CAN from PDC. But software only showed the following messages. Some other software showed 'CAN-BUS error'

Time Rx/Tx ArbID Byte 1 Byte 2 Byte 3 Byte 4
455.7365 Rx 0 0 0 0
455.7424 Rx 0 0 1 0
455.7425 Rx 0 0 9 0
455.7426 Rx 0 0 13 0
455.7426 Rx 0 0 1B 0
455.7427 Rx 0 0 1C 0
455.7428 Rx 0 0 24 0
455.7429 Rx 0 0 2D 0
455.743 Rx 0 0 2E 0
455.743 Rx 0 0 36 0
455.7431 Rx 0 0 3F 0
455.7432 Rx 0 0 47 0
455.7433 Rx 0 0 48 0
455.7434 Rx 0 0 59 0
455.7435 Rx 0 3 61 0
455.7436 Rx 0 3 62 0
455.7437 Rx 0 3 6A 0
455.7438 Rx 0 3 6B 0
455.7438 Rx 0 3 7C 0
455.7439 Rx 0 8 85 0
I dont know what software and interface you are trying to use....

Quote:
----------------------------------------------------
Use multimeter to test the voltage of K-CAN.
1) Multimeter + connected to CAN-HIGH
- connected to CAN-HOW
Votage is - 4.3V
2) Multimeter + connected to CAN-LOW
- connected to CAN-HIGH
Votage is + 4.3V

Is it normal?
Using a DVM to probe a differential comm line is not going to yield a lot of useful information. Please read the links I posted, specifically:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html
-----------------------------------------------------
[quote]

Quote:
If cut the wire of CAN-LOW, PDC still works, unless cut the CAN-HIGH wire. why?
You cut both or just one at a time? Why did you cut either line? I also dont know how you are defining "still works" either. You need to be more specific. In any case, I dont have PDC (never liked the looks of those rings on the bumper) and cannot comment on the packet data.
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      01-17-2009, 07:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
I dont know what software and interface you are trying to use.....
The hardware I used is ValueCAN3 from Intrepid Control Systems. Software is Vehicle Spy 3. When connect, software showd 'CAN Bus Error'. I have sent a email to the company, hope I can fix the problem soon.

The baudrate is set to 100Kbit/s which sould be the rate of K-CAN

Quote:
Using a DVM to probe a differential comm line is not going to yield a lot of useful information. Please read the links I posted, specifically:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_CAN.html
DVM show -4.3V (+ to CAN-HIGH, - to CAN-LOW), not sure if it should be +4.3V. My car has been repaired one month ago. I suspect the dealer worker make a mistake when connect the PDC wire.


Quote:
You cut both or just one at a time? Why did you cut either line? I also dont know how you are defining "still works" either. You need to be more specific. In any case, I dont have PDC (never liked the looks of those rings on the bumper) and cannot comment on the packet data.
Here is PDC pin assignment


CAN-LOW is the green wire, CAN-HIGH is the orange wire. When connect to these wires, I cut the green wire by accident. Hoever, I found PDC still works. That means the speakers make alarm voice When I close to rear. Then I cut the orange wire too, this time the alarm voice disappear. So the BUS can still works when CAN-LOW is broken?
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      01-17-2009, 10:55 PM   #29
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Need add a 120 ohm resistance between CAN-H and CAN-L?
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      01-18-2009, 01:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efunroom View Post
The hardware I used is ValueCAN3 from Intrepid Control Systems. Software is Vehicle Spy 3. When connect, software showd 'CAN Bus Error'. I have sent a email to the company, hope I can fix the problem soon.


The baudrate is set to 100Kbit/s which sould be the rate of K-CAN
Baud rate may be the end result of another issue. Where you sample the bit is significant. It may prove prudent to ask them about bit timing in the calculation of the baud rate: tsegs, prescalar, oscillator etc to determine what they are using for 100kbits. Where are you tapping the bus? Are you terminating the bus? I would hope any further questions concerning bus voltage are generated after studying the suggested link...

Quote:
DVM show -4.3V (+ to CAN-HIGH, - to CAN-LOW), not sure if it should be +4.3V. My car has been repaired one month ago. I suspect the dealer worker make a mistake when connect the PDC wire.
With the DVM you end up taking an average of the voltage of a differential communication signal. In both instances (CAN H and CAN L) a peak (magnitude) measurement with respect to the common mode voltage would at best prove the identification of which wire is CAN H and which wire is CAN L.


Quote:
Here is PDC pin assignment


CAN-LOW is the green wire, CAN-HIGH is the orange wire. When connect to these wires, I cut the green wire by accident. Hoever, I found PDC still works. That means the speakers make alarm voice When I close to rear. Then I cut the orange wire too, this time the alarm voice disappear. So the BUS can still works when CAN-LOW is broken?
Again, I do not know what constitutes "working". According to what little documentation I have the PDC only uses KCAN to determine whether or not it should be active (e.g gearbox reverse). Can you communicate via CANbus with just CANH? Somewhat. This depends heavily on the bits,data rate, trunk length, environment, etc. No matter the apparent success though, you are compromising the bus integrity.
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      01-18-2009, 09:46 AM   #31
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Finally, I can read the bus packet. The error was due to the wrong pin I connected. What a foolish mistake!
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      01-19-2009, 07:23 AM   #32
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Cabin Light:

CAN ID----DATA
=====----=====
1E3--------F1 FF ON/OFF Swith; Triggered by push button
1E3--------F0 FF End of operation; Triggered by release button


Light

CAN ID-----DATA
===== ----====
21A-------00 20 F7 OFF
21A-------04 22 F7 Parking light / angel eyes
21A-------05 22 F7 Light on


WINDOW

FA is the control CAN ID. 3B6,3B7,3B8,3B9 are the window position CAN ID

Front Driver:
CAN ID-----DATA
======---=====
FA--------C1 00 FF Move down
FA--------C0 00 FF Stop move
FA--------C3 00 FF Move up
3B6-------XX YY
XX: X'00'-X'67'
YY: FC - Close at max position, XX=X'00'
FD - at middle position.
FE - Open at max position, XX=X'67'

Front Passenger:
CAN ID-----DATA
======---=====
FA--------C8 00 FF Move down
FA--------C0 00 FF Stop move
FA--------D8 00 FF Move up
3B8-------XX YY
XX: X'00'-X'67'
YY: FC - Close at max position, XX=X'00'
FD - at middle position.
FE - Open at max position, XX=X'67'

Rear Driver:
CAN ID-----DATA
======---=====
FA--------C0 01 FF Move down
FA--------C0 00 FF Stop move
FA--------D0 03 FF Move up
3B7-------XX YY ZZ
XX: X'00'-X'50'
YY: F4 - Close at max position, XX=X'00'
F5 - at middle position.
F6 - Open at max position, XX=X'50'
1) Rear windows are locked by driver
2) If rear windows are unlocked, YY will be other value


Rear Passenger:
CAN ID-----DATA
======---=====
FA--------C0 08 FF Move down
FA--------C0 00 FF Stop move
FA--------C0 18 FF Move up
3B9-------XX YY ZZ
XX: X'00'-X'50'
YY: F4 - Close at max position, XX=X'00'
F5 - at middle position.
F6 - Open at max position, XX=X'50'
1) Rear windows are locked by driver
2) If rear windows are unlocked, YY will be other value

Last edited by efunroom; 01-19-2009 at 07:40 AM.
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      01-19-2009, 11:08 AM   #33
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just about to start doing this. Can anyone give me some quick starter tips.

1. What wires do I connect the CAN-USB device to? Only CAN-H and CAN-L or also to the GND?
2. Do I connect the CAN-USB in parallel to whatever is connected currently in the car?
3. Do I need the 120 ohm termination resistor or not?
4. I'm using PCAN-USB. Does anyone have any software that I can use with that?
5. What settings do I use on the software to even start looking at the data?
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      01-19-2009, 03:22 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priyankacrasta View Post
just about to start doing this. Can anyone give me some quick starter tips.

1. What wires do I connect the CAN-USB device to? Only CAN-H and CAN-L or also to the GND?
2. Do I connect the CAN-USB in parallel to whatever is connected currently in the car?
3. Do I need the 120 ohm termination resistor or not?
4. I'm using PCAN-USB. Does anyone have any software that I can use with that?
5. What settings do I use on the software to even start looking at the data?
1. You should use all three.
2. Yes, always.
3. Like most buses you should only terminate the ends of the trunk. If you use the ultrasonic module as your tap point, then no.
4. Sorry I am not using that device.
5. Baudrate to 100kbits. You may have to set the bit timing yourself however. The tsegs , prescalars, etc are specific to your local hardware. Due to variation on CAN controllers there is no universal setting. Your hardware should have documentation describing the calculations.
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      01-19-2009, 06:10 PM   #35
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Have we figured out if the Steering Wheel controls are on the KCAN or the FCAN?

The FCAN is 500Kbits isn't it and I'm wondering if the FCAN message are passed on to the KCAN also some how. Doesn't seem to make sense that the CCC is on the KCAN but the controls for it are on the FCAN.
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      01-19-2009, 06:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
1. You should use all three.
2. Yes, always.
3. Like most buses you should only terminate the ends of the trunk. If you use the ultrasonic module as your tap point, then no.
4. Sorry I am not using that device.
5. Baudrate to 100kbits. You may have to set the bit timing yourself however. The tsegs , prescalars, etc are specific to your local hardware. Due to variation on CAN controllers there is no universal setting. Your hardware should have documentation describing the calculations.
Agree. But for 1, I only used CAN-H and CAN-L. It works well.
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      01-19-2009, 06:55 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priyankacrasta View Post
Have we figured out if the Steering Wheel controls are on the KCAN or the FCAN?

The FCAN is 500Kbits isn't it and I'm wondering if the FCAN message are passed on to the KCAN also some how. Doesn't seem to make sense that the CCC is on the KCAN but the controls for it are on the FCAN.
I think multifunction button controls are on both KCAN and FCAN. JBE should be the gateway.

There are lots of control in Steering Wheel, most of them are FCAN related. only multifunction button are KCAN related. Put multifunction button to FCAN is much easy in wiring.
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      01-19-2009, 06:57 PM   #38
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I am now focused on IHKA. since I want install a touch screen, climate control need be removed/relocated to make a room. It will be so great to make climate control via touch screen. But I doubt IHKA is self control and can't not be controlled outside
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      01-20-2009, 09:26 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efunroom View Post
Agree. But for 1, I only used CAN-H and CAN-L. It works well.
You should use all three to guarantee your reference and avoid issues associated with ground potential differences. You can get away with using just the two but you risk introducing a host of problems. Ive seen some industrial applications make this mistake. The best case scenarios resulted in a few bus errors. The worst case scenarios resulted in blown transceivers.
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      01-20-2009, 09:46 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
You should use all three to guarantee your reference and avoid issues associated with ground potential differences. You can get away with using just the two but you risk introducing a host of problems. Ive seen some industrial applications make this mistake. The best case scenarios resulted in a few bus errors. The worst case scenarios resulted in blown transceivers.
Oh, I will connect the GND. Where to connect it? to the car body?
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      01-21-2009, 03:14 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efunroom View Post
Oh, I will connect the GND. Where to connect it? to the car body?
Where are you tapping the bus? If on the ultrasonic there is an earth gnd. Its not ideal, but it will do.
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      01-21-2009, 10:43 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
Where are you tapping the bus? If on the ultrasonic there is an earth gnd. Its not ideal, but it will do.
I tap it to the PDC harness. Seems no earth gnd in this harness.

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      01-23-2009, 02:37 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efunroom View Post
I tap it to the PDC harness. Seems no earth gnd in this harness.

What is B2 (Terminal 31)?
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      02-17-2009, 05:27 AM   #44
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Hi
I'm looking at adding some can functionality myself on my e92 at embedded level.
I was looking at picking up on the steering wheel buttons and also the radio buttons and radio display.
The plan is to add my own bluetooth / hd based mp3 player etc all linked into one small module.

would be based on this module for bluetooth (fav anyway at the moment)
http://www.bluegiga.com/WT32_Bluetooth_Audio_Module

I would design my own carrier board / processor / add can interface etc.
One question though, the can bus connections on the obd2 port, are they the same as the K bus and are the active in terms of listening for packets on the K bus and sending messages back ?
Ideally i'd like to start without tapping into the bus but simply using the diagnostics port as the hardware will be on and off like a yo-yo for along time .

Either way I am following this thread with keen interest.

Peter
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