E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Do I need spacers running 17" Kosei K1s?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-31-2008, 05:12 PM   #1
M3to335
Whats that smell?
M3to335's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
1,701
Posts

 
Drives: 135i, m435
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Your basement

iTrader: (5)

Do I need spacers running 17" Kosei K1s?

Two questions.

1) Will I need spacers with this setup and
2) Is anyone running 255 square?
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2008, 05:34 PM   #2
sambonator
Samtaro!
sambonator's Avatar
United_States
44
Rep
2,549
Posts

 
Drives: a car
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Milky Way Galaxy

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3to335 View Post
Two questions.

1) Will I need spacers with this setup and
2) Is anyone running 255 square?

1. No
2. Yes, Satakal is running the exact setup with Falken Azenis RT615's on K1's.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2008, 06:27 PM   #3
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
21
Rep
1,474
Posts

 
Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sambonator View Post
1. No
2. Yes, Satakal is running the exact setup with Falken Azenis RT615's on K1's.
:-) guilty
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2008, 06:34 PM   #4
Gen_E92
Brigadier General
No_Country
51
Rep
3,390
Posts

 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2007 335i  [3.90]
Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
:-) guilty
any close up pics? just wanna see how 255s look on 17x8.5

thanks!
Appreciate 0
      10-31-2008, 06:35 PM   #5
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
21
Rep
1,474
Posts

 
Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

just a few posts down....

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182035

Edit: I'm so excited that someone wants to see pics! Woohoo!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178218

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=51

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181486
Appreciate 0
      11-01-2008, 07:19 AM   #6
M3to335
Whats that smell?
M3to335's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
1,701
Posts

 
Drives: 135i, m435
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Your basement

iTrader: (5)

Nice. Thanks for linking me.

I saw your comment about the rear offset looking "rediculous" but it "works". Yup, it looks silly alright haha. I've got 15mm spacers I could throw on the rear but that would sort of throw off the whole square setup reasoning.

Its good to see that there are no issues with it getting near the front strut.
Appreciate 0
      11-01-2008, 01:15 PM   #7
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

It gets very close to the front strut. I've been running this setup on track for the past 3+ sets of tires.

All 255s.

If you slammed your car, it will not fit. Mine is on TcK and it's at the highest ride height setting (for performance reasons) and it fits perfectly. If I lowered it more, it wouldn't fit.
Appreciate 0
      11-02-2008, 11:18 AM   #8
M3to335
Whats that smell?
M3to335's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
1,701
Posts

 
Drives: 135i, m435
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Your basement

iTrader: (5)

Hmm, thats not terribly reassuring.

Do you consider H&R springs "slammed"? I guess a good way to compare is for you to tell me how much gap (if any) is left in the front wheel well on your street tires. Any chance you could measure that the next time you head out to the car?

Thanks
Appreciate 0
      11-02-2008, 11:43 AM   #9
O-cha
Brigadier General
O-cha's Avatar
81
Rep
4,729
Posts

 
Drives: Mcoupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of you

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to O-cha
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3to335 View Post
Nice. Thanks for linking me.

I saw your comment about the rear offset looking "rediculous" but it "works". Yup, it looks silly alright haha. I've got 15mm spacers I could throw on the rear but that would sort of throw off the whole square setup reasoning.

Its good to see that there are no issues with it getting near the front strut.
Why would it throw off the reasoning? For rotation? Changes nothing. For grip? Same amount of rubber, you're just putting your track width back in, which you lost, and need/want.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-02-2008, 01:17 PM   #10
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
Why would it throw off the reasoning? For rotation? Changes nothing. For grip? Same amount of rubber, you're just putting your track width back in, which you lost, and need/want.
Because based upon my 40+ track events on the Kosei K1 (and experience of others), the square setup on the Kosei, with it's current offset on all four corners, makes for a car that still slightly understeers.

If you put the 15mm spacers on the rear and widen the rear track, you will get MORE understeer, exactly what you weren't trying to achieve with a square setup.
Appreciate 0
      11-03-2008, 08:33 PM   #11
M3to335
Whats that smell?
M3to335's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
1,701
Posts

 
Drives: 135i, m435
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Your basement

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
Because based upon my 40+ track events on the Kosei K1 (and experience of others), the square setup on the Kosei, with it's current offset on all four corners, makes for a car that still slightly understeers.

If you put the 15mm spacers on the rear and widen the rear track, you will get MORE understeer, exactly what you weren't trying to achieve with a square setup.
That's what I was thinking would happen.

Im still wondering what you consider slammed. Im a little apprehensive about going 255 up front now

I suppose worst case I could waterjet a 3mm plate to push the wheel out just a tad.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 08:30 AM   #12
Park2670
General
Park2670's Avatar
United_States
204
Rep
18,125
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 CX-5
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UTAH

iTrader: (8)

Ive been running 255s all the way around on my Koseis with no problems. Stock sport suspension here.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 12:38 PM   #13
M3to335
Whats that smell?
M3to335's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
1,701
Posts

 
Drives: 135i, m435
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Your basement

iTrader: (5)

Cool. Unfortunately your not lowered.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 12:39 PM   #14
O-cha
Brigadier General
O-cha's Avatar
81
Rep
4,729
Posts

 
Drives: Mcoupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of you

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to O-cha
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
Because based upon my 40+ track events on the Kosei K1 (and experience of others), the square setup on the Kosei, with it's current offset on all four corners, makes for a car that still slightly understeers.

If you put the 15mm spacers on the rear and widen the rear track, you will get MORE understeer, exactly what you weren't trying to achieve with a square setup.
That's not the definition of a square setup. That's the definition of trying to achieve a neutral handling car. Which isn't always the reasoning for a square setup. Which is why I asked him.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 12:44 PM   #15
Park2670
General
Park2670's Avatar
United_States
204
Rep
18,125
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 CX-5
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UTAH

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3to335 View Post
Cool. Unfortunately your not lowered.
Wonder if we can get a little more out of leftcoastman. Ive seen his car in person with R compound 255s and he didnt have rubbing issues with his TC kline Coilovers. He cant have a much different ride height than you.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 12:52 PM   #16
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
That's not the definition of a square setup. That's the definition of trying to achieve a neutral handling car. Which isn't always the reasoning for a square setup. Which is why I asked him.
Huh? Your thought process works in circles but misses the conclusion.

At the risk of inducing a tantrum, for which you are famous, I'll explain in pejorative terms.

1) OP said in the first post that he wanted to get better performance.
2) OP then said he did not want to induce understeer.
3) OP indicates that he wants to track/autox the car

Ergo, logic would indicate that he probably wants the square setup to increase performance and reduce understeer.

Increasing grip in the rear by widening rear track does not achieve that - therefore he doesn't "need/want" it.

Cue tantrum, please.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 12:57 PM   #17
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3to335 View Post
That's what I was thinking would happen.

Im still wondering what you consider slammed. Im a little apprehensive about going 255 up front now

I suppose worst case I could waterjet a 3mm plate to push the wheel out just a tad.
It's not a ride height thing, directly. It's just that when you lower a car, with coilovers, the adjuster ring goes lower too. Being that the strut tube is nearly touching the tire....and the adjuster ring is larger than the strut tube...if you lower the car too much (implying you'll lower the adjuster ring), the adjuster ring will hit the tire. You may not have an adjuster ring on your stock setup, but you sure as hell have a spring perch.

I will say that I run tons of negative camber when I , so I don't have to worry about the tire hitting the fender lip. If you slam city on stock camber, that may not be the case.

Unfortunately the only way to really tell is buy/borrow a single wheel/tire setup and throw it on there. We can play the measurement game till our eyes turn blue, but I can't guarantee it'll work.
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 01:02 PM   #18
O-cha
Brigadier General
O-cha's Avatar
81
Rep
4,729
Posts

 
Drives: Mcoupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of you

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to O-cha
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
Huh? Your thought process works in circles but misses the conclusion.

At the risk of inducing a tantrum, for which you are famous, I'll explain in pejorative terms.

1) OP said in the first post that he wanted to get better performance.
2) OP then said he did not want to induce understeer.
3) OP indicates that he wants to track/autox the car

Ergo, logic would indicate that he probably wants the square setup to increase performance and reduce understeer.

Increasing grip in the rear by widening rear track does not achieve that - therefore he doesn't "need/want" it.

Cue tantrum, please.
Show me where he said he wanted better performance or to specifically reduce understeer? I'll save you the trouble, he didn't, the first mention is YOUR post.

Ergo your reading ability is not the best.

I know a lot of people who use square setups so they can rotate their tires, SACRIFICING some of their neutralness in the process.


Again which is why I asked him to insure what his goal was.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 01:13 PM   #19
O-cha
Brigadier General
O-cha's Avatar
81
Rep
4,729
Posts

 
Drives: Mcoupe
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of you

iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to O-cha
This is all very much hearsay in the first place as it boils down to driving style and where you're driving. I didn't have understeering issues. Bring the spacers and lug bolts with you even if you decide not to use them, you might find yourself oversteering out of corners (do you have an lsd?)
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 01:38 PM   #20
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

Oops - was replying to another post on square setup and understeer. Oh well, my mistake.

It's still fun playing the O-Cha video game. Push a button, out comes a tantrum!
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 03:17 PM   #21
Park2670
General
Park2670's Avatar
United_States
204
Rep
18,125
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 CX-5
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UTAH

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
It's still fun playing the O-Cha video game. Push a button, out comes a tantrum!
Appreciate 0
      11-04-2008, 04:26 PM   #22
satakal
Major
satakal's Avatar
21
Rep
1,474
Posts

 
Drives: e46
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Park2670 View Post

Yeah, I need to have this LeftCoastMan as an instructor. I wonder if he's the "get everything inch perfect then add more speed" or if he's the "that spin was fun. Good thing we didn't hit anything" kinda guy.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST