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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > M3 Wishbone links, Tesnion Links, and Strut Brace Installed!



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      02-19-2011, 10:07 AM   #243
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I am not an expert but can speak from recent experience. I just did the rear on my car with M3 subframe bushings, m3 rear sway, M3 rear guide rod and Velocity rear toe arms. I did not do the rear wishbones.

I already had Koni yellow shocks and BMW performance yellow springs, M3 front bits and M3 front swaybar.

The overall improvement was dramatic. As best I can tell, the subframe bushinngs were absolutely the most important change. The M3 bushings eliminate 80-90% of the rear end deflection and "slop" in aggressive cornering. They also remove much of the deflection felt on hard acceleration, where it almost felt like I was stretching a rubber band in the back. I think the arms are also contributing to the improvement, but to a lesser extent. Hard to tell, as I did them all at the same time. I was advised by Harold at HP Autowerks and Matt at Camber-Toe on this and their advice is highly reliable.

With regard to the M3 rear swaybar, I am very happy I did this. The labor is basically already included when you are doing subframe bushings. It is way stiffer than stock and the car corners much much flatter. My springs are not too stiff so the sway does not hurt cornering traction all that much. I am told that with really stiff springs (eg Bilstein coilovers), that the M3 rear sway can hurt traction more if you're running without LSD (as I am). There is a lot written on this topic by people who know more than me.

So, in your situation and thinking about budget, I'd do all the front pieces, the subframe bushings, maybe the M3 rear sway, and of course the coilovers and then drive it and see if the other rear M3 parts are needed.
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      02-19-2011, 11:02 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freelo View Post
I am not an expert but can speak from recent experience. I just did the rear on my car with M3 subframe bushings, m3 rear sway, M3 rear guide rod and Velocity rear toe arms. I did not do the rear wishbones.

I already had Koni yellow shocks and BMW performance yellow springs, M3 front bits and M3 front swaybar.

The overall improvement was dramatic. As best I can tell, the subframe bushinngs were absolutely the most important change. The M3 bushings eliminate 80-90% of the rear end deflection and "slop" in aggressive cornering. They also remove much of the deflection felt on hard acceleration, where it almost felt like I was stretching a rubber band in the back. I think the arms are also contributing to the improvement, but to a lesser extent. Hard to tell, as I did them all at the same time. I was advised by Harold at HP Autowerks and Matt at Camber-Toe on this and their advice is highly reliable.

With regard to the M3 rear swaybar, I am very happy I did this. The labor is basically already included when you are doing subframe bushings. It is way stiffer than stock and the car corners much much flatter. My springs are not too stiff so the sway does not hurt cornering traction all that much. I am told that with really stiff springs (eg Bilstein coilovers), that the M3 rear sway can hurt traction more if you're running without LSD (as I am). There is a lot written on this topic by people who know more than me.

So, in your situation and thinking about budget, I'd do all the front pieces, the subframe bushings, maybe the M3 rear sway, and of course the coilovers and then drive it and see if the other rear M3 parts are needed.
thanks for the response. another concern of mine is the loss of traction with such a stiff setup. i will also be without a lsd which i plan to get later on after the mod fund has replenished itself. have u noticed any loss of traction with your setup?

also another question for whoever can respond. what is the install like for the other three links (steering rod, camber link and trailing arms) are they pretty straight forward so they wont require much labor?
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      02-19-2011, 08:29 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanJJ09 View Post
thanks for the response. another concern of mine is the loss of traction with such a stiff setup. i will also be without a lsd which i plan to get later on after the mod fund has replenished itself. have u noticed any loss of traction with your setup?

also another question for whoever can respond. what is the install like for the other three links (steering rod, camber link and trailing arms) are they pretty straight forward so they wont require much labor?
I'll also say the rear bushings are highly recommended. The labor for the 3 arms is much easier that then bushings & sway bar. Those 2 require the sub frame to be dropped. The arms just bolt in. Just need to remove the wheels.
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      02-19-2011, 08:45 PM   #246
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Yep. I've been doing research and am familiar with the install process of the bushings but not too familiar with the other 3 links and if they would involve dripping the subframe. I wouldn't think so but we all know the over engineering
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      02-22-2011, 10:51 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanJJ09 View Post
thanks for the response. another concern of mine is the loss of traction with such a stiff setup. i will also be without a lsd which i plan to get later on after the mod fund has replenished itself. have u noticed any loss of traction with your setup?
It's mostly the M3 anti roll bars (aka sway bars) that are responsible for the loss of traction as they stiffen up the link between the two wheels - so if in a corner you load one side, your open diff will send the power to the inner wheel as there is less resistance, and it will spin much more easily. I would therefore always recommend to do sway bars, bushings and diff at the same time, as for all of these you'll have to drop the subframe.
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Originally Posted by CubanJJ09 View Post
also another question for whoever can respond. what is the install like for the other three links (steering rod, camber link and trailing arms) are they pretty straight forward so they wont require much labor?
All elements besides the three just mentioned by me are more or less plug&play and very easy to install. If I were you I would first replace all the other elements and then, in a second step, do bushings+sway bars+diff.

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      02-22-2011, 01:40 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux View Post
It's mostly the M3 anti roll bars (aka sway bars) that are responsible for the loss of traction as they stiffen up the link between the two wheels - so if in a corner you load one side, your open diff will send the power to the inner wheel as there is less resistance, and it will spin much more easily. I would therefore always recommend to do sway bars, bushings and diff at the same time, as for all of these you'll have to drop the subframe.
All elements besides the three just mentioned by me are more or less plug&play and very easy to install. If I were you I would first replace all the other elements and then, in a second step, do bushings+sway bars+diff.

Alpina_B3_Lux
thanks for the input. ive decided not to get the trailing arms cause they made of steel/iron and not al. ill prob end up gettin the camber links. ive read around and i think it was in this thread, maybe another (ive read so many i lost track) that the steering rod was not PnP, true?

yea i was thinking about just doing all the things that i can do in my garage that dont need an alignment. (upper front and the 3 rear links). then get coils rear sway, bushings. dont think ill be able to mustard the coils and diff. at the same time

Last edited by CubanJJ09; 02-22-2011 at 01:48 PM.
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      02-22-2011, 01:47 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanJJ09 View Post
thanks for the input. ive decided not to get the trailing arms cause they made of steel/iron and not al. ill prob end up gettin the camber links. ive read around and i think it was in this thread, maybe another (ive read so many i lost track) that the steering rod was not PnP, true?
If you are referring to the rear toe links, the M3 version does not work. You will need to VM toe links here:

http://www.hpashop.com/product.sc?pr...categoryId=176

The rear lower camber link conversion kit will require the use of M3 style rear dampers as well.
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      02-22-2011, 01:50 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
If you are referring to the rear toe links, the M3 version does not work. You will need to VM toe links here:

http://www.hpashop.com/product.sc?pr...categoryId=176

The rear lower camber link conversion kit will require the use of M3 style rear dampers as well.
, thanks for the heads up, back to realoem
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      02-22-2011, 01:53 PM   #251
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so were on the same page #4 cant be used
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...16&hg=33&fg=30

what other part do i need to get?
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      02-22-2011, 02:09 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanJJ09 View Post
so were on the same page #4 cant be used
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...16&hg=33&fg=30

what other part do i need to get?
You can use #4 with M3 rear dampers. You can't use #13.
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      02-22-2011, 08:50 PM   #253
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Thanks again. I wanna get some bilsteins if I do a coilover so that kills that
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      02-23-2011, 09:28 PM   #254
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Harold back to using the m3 dampers with the camber link. This guy seemed to use it with the bilstein coilovers. Maybe Im not understanding the definition of dampers

3rd pic up from the bottom on the first post

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=Pss10
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      02-23-2011, 09:42 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CubanJJ09 View Post
Harold back to using the m3 dampers with the camber link. This guy seemed to use it with the bilstein coilovers. Maybe Im not understanding the definition of dampers

3rd pic up from the bottom on the first post

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=Pss10
Those are Koni's not Bilsteins.

Dampers is just another term for shocks.
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      02-23-2011, 10:15 PM   #256
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Thanks
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      02-23-2011, 10:33 PM   #257
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When getting the car aligned after install of the M3 parts what specs should I be shooting for. I would seldom be tracking the car, and would rather not shred through front tires.
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      02-23-2011, 11:52 PM   #258
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Quote:
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When getting the car aligned after install of the M3 parts what specs should I be shooting for. I would seldom be tracking the car, and would rather not shred through front tires.
You would just align the car to 135/335 specs for street driving.
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      02-24-2011, 04:45 AM   #259
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is this mod only applicable for 335i ?
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      02-24-2011, 11:50 AM   #260
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is this mod only applicable for 335i ?
No, it also works on 120d 128i 135i 320d 325i 328i 330i 335i 335d....Basically all 1 and 3 series, none M and none ix models.
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      02-27-2011, 11:22 AM   #261
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Any way to modify the lower camber links to accept the bilstein shocks? I see koni and another brand work but I currently have bilstein.
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      02-27-2011, 12:28 PM   #262
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Any way to modify the lower camber links to accept the bilstein shocks? I see koni and another brand work but I currently have bilstein.
No, not really. The oem uses a stud mount and the M3 uses an eye mount.
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      02-27-2011, 02:55 PM   #263
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I see your point with the stud and eye mounts. So both end need to have eye mounts then?

The m3 only has one eye mount as well
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...10&hg=33&fg=45
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      03-25-2011, 05:12 AM   #264
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can i fit the wishbones and tension link in front without changing to m3 frontal axel ?
the car is a 320i e90 2006
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