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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > M3 Wishbone links, Tesnion Links, and Strut Brace Installed!



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      01-15-2009, 12:29 PM   #133
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I think this is it from the 335 -- Orb or anyone want to verify?
E90 335 Regulating Rod 1 37146763733 $9.04 [part #4 in diagram below]

And 04 REGULATING ROD 1 37142283867 $14.67 [from M3 2nd diagram below]
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      01-15-2009, 03:02 PM   #134
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Just got the installation done

car was sooo out of alignment!!!

The car is at the alignment shop now

Ordered the headlight adjustment rod, will be here tomorrow
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      01-15-2009, 05:11 PM   #135
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Just got it back, very happy with it!
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      01-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #136
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I had seen this M3 suspension retrofit package on Tischer's parts page. Are these parts worth what they give to the ride?

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462
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      01-15-2009, 06:34 PM   #137
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Another installation

Got my car back yesterday after installing tension struts, wishbones, and bmw performance shocks. Steering feedback is I would say slightly improved. There is a small amount of additional informational feel, plus a small amount of additional kickback and harshness. Overall however the vague, plodding nature of the steering is left intact.

I was expecting a taut, precise steering feel, but the change is very minor. I don't notice any change in steering effort. My front camber is now at -0.8: similar to yours, Mr. 5.

My car does seem to track better at high speeds. Path accuracy is better.

The shocks give a mildly stiffer ride, maybe 10% over ZSP. It's enough to cause some buzzing in the cabin at low speeds; but it's not harsh. I don't know if passengers will notice at all. At high speed the ride is very smooth.

I'd say the tension struts and wishbones are worth it, but I'm disappointed in the way the steering feels in this car. It's vague and isolated -- compared to the best cars. I might try increasing caster to force some feel through the rack; but I think it's just overboosted.

Thanks to Orb, HP Autowerks, Mr. 5, and the others here for a great resource! A special thanks to Harold of HP Autowerks for his help.
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      01-15-2009, 10:02 PM   #138
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What tires do you have on? I was amazed at the improvement in steering feel (among other things) with the swap from OEM rfts to Pirelli P-0 non-rfts.

At some point we should all put our heads together and write up a "what is worth the $" for all these different suspension mods.

On a different issue there is now some consideration of offering these parts in a BMW Perf package.
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      01-15-2009, 11:26 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
What tires do you have on? I was amazed at the improvement in steering feel (among other things) with the swap from OEM rfts to Pirelli P-0 non-rfts.

At some point we should all put our heads together and write up a "what is worth the $" for all these different suspension mods.

On a different issue there is now some consideration of offering these parts in a BMW Perf package.
Right now I'm running 16" wheels with the Conti runflats. I haven't tried high performance tires, but I did start with the Bridgestone runflats with the 328i ZSP 17" wheels, and have tried Conti all seasons. I imagine my switch from 17" to 16" wheels is controversial, but 16" are superior in all ways except max grip.

What do you mean by steering feel? Sometimes people mix several things together when talking about feel: indication of loss of traction, road feel, turn in, detectable play, path accuracy, and steering effort. When I changed away from runflats, I found the steering effort was reduced. I'd like to hear more about what you experienced.

I think it's a great idea to find the mods that are worth it. It may come down to designing certain sets of modifications that work together, including wheels and tires. The 328i ZSP wheels & tires really seemed too heavy to me. Like you mentioned some time before, most of the deficiencies in the E9X cars seem to revolve around the compromises made for the runflat tires.

What I want, to tell you the truth, is a BMW performance steering rack. Low flow, maybe as low as the E36. I will happily run lower caster and narrower tires to compensate. Or I'll take the higher steering effort. If BMW won't make it, maybe ZF would offer their torsion bar tuning sets, so we could try different boost levels. I don't know enough about how racks work to know if this would be good enough.
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      01-16-2009, 02:50 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyu View Post
Got my car back yesterday after installing tension struts, wishbones, and bmw performance shocks. Steering feedback is I would say slightly improved. There is a small amount of additional informational feel, plus a small amount of additional kickback and harshness. Overall however the vague, plodding nature of the steering is left intact.

I was expecting a taut, precise steering feel, but the change is very minor. I don't notice any change in steering effort. My front camber is now at -0.8: similar to yours, Mr. 5.

My car does seem to track better at high speeds. Path accuracy is better.

The shocks give a mildly stiffer ride, maybe 10% over ZSP. It's enough to cause some buzzing in the cabin at low speeds; but it's not harsh. I don't know if passengers will notice at all. At high speed the ride is very smooth.

I'd say the tension struts and wishbones are worth it, but I'm disappointed in the way the steering feels in this car. It's vague and isolated -- compared to the best cars. I might try increasing caster to force some feel through the rack; but I think it's just overboosted.

Thanks to Orb, HP Autowerks, Mr. 5, and the others here for a great resource! A special thanks to Harold of HP Autowerks for his help.
Shoot me a PM and tell me what your alignment settings are, I may be able to get a bit more out of your car.

Harold
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      01-16-2009, 04:35 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyu View Post
Right now I'm running 16" wheels with the Conti runflats. I haven't tried high performance tires, but I did start with the Bridgestone runflats with the 328i ZSP 17" wheels, and have tried Conti all seasons. I imagine my switch from 17" to 16" wheels is controversial, but 16" are superior in all ways except max grip.

What do you mean by steering feel? Sometimes people mix several things together when talking about feel: indication of loss of traction, road feel, turn in, detectable play, path accuracy, and steering effort. When I changed away from runflats, I found the steering effort was reduced. I'd like to hear more about what you experienced.

I think it's a great idea to find the mods that are worth it. It may come down to designing certain sets of modifications that work together, including wheels and tires. The 328i ZSP wheels & tires really seemed too heavy to me. Like you mentioned some time before, most of the deficiencies in the E9X cars seem to revolve around the compromises made for the runflat tires.

What I want, to tell you the truth, is a BMW performance steering rack. Low flow, maybe as low as the E36. I will happily run lower caster and narrower tires to compensate. Or I'll take the higher steering effort. If BMW won't make it, maybe ZF would offer their torsion bar tuning sets, so we could try different boost levels. I don't know enough about how racks work to know if this would be good enough.
With my limited knowledge, I thought I'll just give my best shot at this:

There are many things that affects steering 'feel'. In your case, I think there are a couple of things that may cause the issue:

1. High profile tires: more sidewall deflection

2. Low grip from tires

There are some variables here to consider too:

1. What's the tire pressure?

2. What's the front alignment setting?


On another note..I HATE you guys. Makes me wanna spend money again!

Anybody in Houston did this already? I definitely want to check it out!
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      01-16-2009, 01:39 PM   #142
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Im in Houston
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      01-16-2009, 01:59 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
Shoot me a PM and tell me what your alignment settings are, I may be able to get a bit more out of your car.

Harold
he's only running -0.8, which is doable even without the wishbones.

with wishbones -1.5 is not out of the question right?
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      01-16-2009, 03:10 PM   #144
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Nice post. My mod list grey by a few line items.

What brand are your wheels?
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      01-16-2009, 04:00 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipblip View Post
[...]

1. What's the tire pressure?
2. What's the front alignment setting?
I agree, there are many things that affect feel! It's a PITA! Have you ever driven a low mileage E36 3 series?

Tire pressure is maybe 10% above manufacturer recommended. I've experimented with tire pressures a great deal.

Here are my alignment settings. Front camber is a little large, which is expected with the M3 front links. Everything else is in the middle of factory spec for my car, which is a ZSP 328i:

(Left and right are the same except for rear toe)

Front Camber: -0.8 degrees
Front Toe: 0.11 degrees
Caster: 7.6 degrees

Rear Camber: -1.8 degrees
Rear Toe Left: 0.15 degrees
Rear Toe Right: 0.17 degrees
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      01-16-2009, 04:17 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
I think this is it from the 335 -- Orb or anyone want to verify?
E90 335 Regulating Rod 1 37146763733 $9.04 [part #4 in diagram below]

And 04 REGULATING ROD 1 37142283867 $14.67 [from M3 2nd diagram below]
+1
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      01-17-2009, 03:24 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter399 View Post
Im in Houston
Cool! Where r u located and when is a good time to check it out?
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      01-24-2009, 12:26 AM   #148
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Installed the upgrade in stages

Stage 1: Front Control Arms & Tension Rod, Top Strut Brace

* Make sure you get an alignment done ASAP!! This upgrade took out the understeer from my car. I've got camber plates and I'd adjusted it so camber remained the same at -2.0 deg so the reduction in understeer wasn't from extra neg camber. I believe it's down to the reduced flexing of the links themselves taking out the freeplay. There is now much better tracking of the front wheels & feels like the tyres are digging deeper giving me more grip. There's more information being fed to my steering allowing me to have a better sense of the road. Only caveat is seems like there is less self centering of the wheel when you release after a turn though castor hasn't changed.

Stage 2: Rear Guide Rod and upper links, Subframe bushing

This tightened up the back end significantly taking the "jiggle" out. The rear just settles alot quicker out of a corner. I've got an LSD so that helps too! Ride comfort did take a hit with the rear upgrade .. but definitely a significant improvement in handling and overall feel as compared to stock.

Big Thanks to Harold from HP Autowerks for hooking me up! This guy's great to deal with & extremely responsive on emails.
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      01-24-2009, 01:00 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dre335 View Post

Stage 2: Rear Guide Rod and upper links, Subframe bushing

This tightened up the back end significantly taking the "jiggle" out. The rear just settles alot quicker out of a corner. I've got an LSD so that helps too! Ride comfort did take a hit with the rear upgrade .. but definitely a significant improvement in handling and overall feel as compared to stock.

Big Thanks to Harold from HP Autowerks for hooking me up! This guy's great to deal with & extremely responsive on emails.
Where did you have the subframe bushings installed at? Through some of the posts about this particular upgrade, it sounds like a specialized tool is needed, which might not be available everywhere.
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      01-25-2009, 10:17 PM   #150
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Great info here.

Anyone know if springs/struts/shocks from an E92 M3 will fit on an E90 335 after installing the M3 arms?
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      01-25-2009, 11:37 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipblip View Post
Cool! Where r u located and when is a good time to check it out?
59 and chimneyrock!


just call the shop 832-419-8084, I should be there!
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      01-26-2009, 02:47 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Great info here.

Anyone know if springs/struts/shocks from an E92 M3 will fit on an E90 335 after installing the M3 arms?
No, you will need M3 front spindles(that means M3 brakes as well) and rear camber links as well.
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      01-26-2009, 11:50 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Great info here.

Anyone know if springs/struts/shocks from an E92 M3 will fit on an E90 335 after installing the M3 arms?
What Harold said^

You can check such things by looking at the parts diagrams [realoemparts.com]

There are better options anyway -- Bilstein, BmW Performance, etc.
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      01-26-2009, 11:58 AM   #154
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Where did you have the subframe bushings installed at? Through some of the posts about this particular upgrade, it sounds like a specialized tool is needed, which might not be available everywhere.
I'm located in Singapore and got it done at my regular shop here.

If you're in the neighborhood give me a shout and I'll fix you up
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