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      11-11-2008, 09:58 PM   #67
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Hi It's dumb fanboy.

OK I'm sorry. I will go out tomorrow and buy a Corvette.


My point is for me Corvette is not the everyday practical car. It's not just the Corvette, I wouldn't buy ANY GM or Ford product again. I don't care how much discount they give. Once bitten twice shy!

So if the Corvette is such a great value why aren't you guys buying it???
Red tags, Employee pricing, gas cards, 33% off of pick ups. PLEASE! What's next meet and greet with the CEO with your GM purchase?

Ooohh nice $2.92 a share. I guess their investors lost all faith in GM as well.


If I own a Mercedes (Vans) Am I still classified as a BMW fanboy?


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      11-11-2008, 11:01 PM   #68
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There are car enthusiasts and there are fanboys; almost anything you say won't convince the latter to change.

...

I didn't know stock price affected a car's race performance. The reason why I am not getting one is because I can't afford one. If the finances are right I would trade my 335i in a heartbeat (although it would have to be a Z06)
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      11-11-2008, 11:37 PM   #69
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There are car enthusiasts and there are fanboys; almost anything you say won't convince the latter to change.

...

I didn't know stock price affected a car's race performance. The reason why I am not getting one is because I can't afford one. If the finances are right I would trade my 335i in a heartbeat (although it would have to be a Z06)
No the stock price is a represents the companies value and quality of the product
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      11-11-2008, 11:46 PM   #70
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If GM tanks, I wonder who would support maintenance and warranty issues?

Though I'm sure, as some have pointed out, this would probably be the least of most people's problems.
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      11-11-2008, 11:54 PM   #71
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Unless I missed a few posts, no one is saying Corvettes are lacking in raw automotive performance. They are fast cars in all performance categories, as you stated. Where a Corvette is lacking, and why I view it as unimpressive is when you take into account the driver.

As for Ford/GM going out of business. Hard to tell what will happen, but they did it to themselves. If they do go under, then it would open the doors wide open for a new brand. A brand that us Americans could actually be proud of, and they could finally get it right. Since all of the infrastructure for retail and all would already be in place.
Sorry, but WRONG! I drove my Z06 on a daily basis, every day. You have never owned a Corvette so I'm not understanding where you're coming from. Don't you read reviews? (it seems that's all you have to go off of) Every test states that the Corvette is the one easiest to live with on a daily basis or they would want to drive across country.

And yet again, you don't even realize what you're talking about with GM or Ford going out of business. If that happens, YOU may be out of a job in a completely different field.

Here's a quick pic of my Z and by the way, I just turned 39 last month.
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      11-12-2008, 12:00 AM   #72
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finally an owner chimed in

im loving the black on yellow
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      11-12-2008, 12:04 AM   #73
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We better hope as a nation that neither GM or Ford (or both) doesn't go under. The news said that if either of the two close, 2.5 million, yes million, jobs will be lost.

The end result on the economy would be staggering.
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      11-12-2008, 12:22 AM   #74
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Both of the cars you have mentioned cost much more money than any car in the current discussion. As a function of the cost, the buyers may have priorities or preferences that lie outside the realm of reasonable. Or, another way to say it is that they have enough money to throw on a $300k supercar without a real need or reason. More just because they want it, but this could also be classified as mid-life crisis some (not all) of the time. (This statement is of course excluding the primary purpose of those cars, which is to be tracked. As outlined by the original posts that sparked the discussion.)
What are you talking about? The 911 GT3 stickers at roughly the same price as the ZR-1. 911 Turbo is in the same ballpark.

Aside from that, I don't see how that answers my question. The purpose of buying these cars is that they cost a lot? I would venture the average owner of a new ZR-1 or Z06 is in a pretty high tax bracket themselves. Do you think there aren't C6 vette owners out there who don't also have Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc?
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      11-12-2008, 12:22 AM   #75
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They are not going anywhere. They will all get Ferderal welfare checks and we(and your children) will all be paying for it again.

Chrysler is going for seconds....

http://www.heritage.org/research/regulation/bg276.cfm
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      11-12-2008, 12:54 AM   #76
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Sorry, but WRONG! I drove my Z06 on a daily basis, every day. You have never owned a Corvette so I'm not understanding where you're coming from. Don't you read reviews? (it seems that's all you have to go off of) Every test states that the Corvette is the one easiest to live with on a daily basis or they would want to drive across country.

And yet again, you don't even realize what you're talking about with GM or Ford going out of business. If that happens, YOU may be out of a job in a completely different field.

Here's a quick pic of my Z and by the way, I just turned 39 last month.
are those factory or aftermarket wheels? A lot better looking than the ZR1 wheels.
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      11-12-2008, 01:15 AM   #77
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Last edited by M3MIKE; 11-12-2008 at 01:33 AM.
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      11-12-2008, 03:07 AM   #78
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Here's a quick pic of my Z and by the way, I just turned 39 last month.
Awesome car. I want one, but I have to make sure my finances are correct before I go in for one.
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      11-12-2008, 03:22 AM   #79
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I came >< that close to buying a 2008 C6 instead of an M3. I found a 6 speed coupe with Z51 as the only option for $38,900 brand new (sticker was $50k). But I didn't go through with it because I decided that I needed 4 seats and a full sized trunk, plus the car was too wide for my narrow driveway. And I'm also concerned about being able to get it serviced under warranty given GM's status. Don't let the old stereotypes fool you, the C6 is an awesome car. Even the regular one, not just the Z06. The regular C6 makes 380-ish rwhp stock and with mods it can go well into the 400s. Plus it handles very well (especially w/ Z51) and gets better gas mileage than the M3.
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      11-12-2008, 09:06 AM   #80
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Sorry, but WRONG! I drove my Z06 on a daily basis, every day. You have never owned a Corvette so I'm not understanding where you're coming from. Don't you read reviews? (it seems that's all you have to go off of) Every test states that the Corvette is the one easiest to live with on a daily basis or they would want to drive across country.

And yet again, you don't even realize what you're talking about with GM or Ford going out of business. If that happens, YOU may be out of a job in a completely different field.

Here's a quick pic of my Z and by the way, I just turned 39 last month.
Fair enough. Since someone finally addressed the issue I was bringing up (3 pages ago) of the car having (or not) any particular excellence as a daily driver, I will conceed my point to your experience. You are correct in that I have never owned a Z06. I'm sure they are great fun, but its obviously just not to my liking. And my job is not in any way, shape, or form going to be imposed upon if GM dies. I made that comment simply to curb anyone looking for a reason to nit-pick at tiny insignificant things.

I must say, when I test drove one I was not that enthused by it. I felt it wasn't the improvement that it needed to be. At least they stopped using parts from the Tahoe parts bin. So in your opinion how does the interior compare to that of an M3?
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      11-12-2008, 09:17 AM   #81
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And yet again, you don't even realize what you're talking about with GM or Ford going out of business. If that happens, YOU may be out of a job in a completely different field.
I don't think my comment in raising the issue of GM dying was without validation either.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/168109?from=rss

They are clearly in trouble. What kind of a company losses $2.5billion in a single quarter? Unless they get help, they may or may not, the only other alternative would be for some other company to buy them out.
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      11-12-2008, 09:25 AM   #82
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What are you talking about? The 911 GT3 stickers at roughly the same price as the ZR-1. 911 Turbo is in the same ballpark.
My appologies, when you mentioned the GT3 together with Ferrari, I had assumed you ment the GT3-RS. A basic GT3 is pretty much the same price as a ZR1.

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Aside from that, I don't see how that answers my question. The purpose of buying these cars is that they cost a lot? I would venture the average owner of a new ZR-1 or Z06 is in a pretty high tax bracket themselves. Do you think there aren't C6 vette owners out there who don't also have Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc?
I'm sure there are, but I also know plenty of C6 owners who don't own other expensive cars.
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      11-12-2008, 10:18 AM   #83
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I don't think my comment in raising the issue of GM dying was without validation either.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/168109?from=rss

They are clearly in trouble. What kind of a company losses $2.5billion in a single quarter? Unless they get help, they may or may not, the only other alternative would be for some other company to buy them out.
No one is going to flame you for brining up facts. I don't think anyone here is debating the fact that GM/Ford are in trouble. Your previous point suggested that we let them go out of business so we can all get behind a "real" car company, that's where we have the issue.

As for the interior comparison (my 330 is very similar to the M3 in layout): the standard interior is good in the Corvette. The materials are good enough for the price point. Add the 3LZ package to get the all leather interior and it's much nicer looking and feeling. It's a matter of personal preference. I do like the BMW interior sans i-Drive. I hate that wart on the dash. It's an option on the M3, but then you loose the ability to configure the car.
As for the Z06 - once you're driving the car, you're not looking at the interior (heads-up display is perfect). You need to pay attention to where you're going because everything is coming up quick. Plain and simply, the car is still under priced by about $10-30K for the performance you're getting. If you want to upgrade the interior you can do so very nicely for about that price range ($20K will get you a complete leather interior for Callaway or Caravaggio - using Italian hides, better than most luxury car companies). Have you priced up the complete leather interior of a Porsche later? GM put all the money into the chassis and engine vs. the interior. The interior would be the cheapest to upgrade vs. re-engineering the suspension or adding an aluminum/magnesim frame after the fact. That being said, yes, the M3 does have a nicer interior IMO, but it's not perfect either.

I'm guessing that most people on this board are just looking for respect where respect is due and not dissing someone or some car "just because" it's a certain manufacturer. It's your opinion, but be realistic with what you're saying.
Corvettes are world class sports cars and not just a big engine. On the highway I would get around 26mpg with my car. It dynoed at 452rwhp.
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      11-12-2008, 10:29 AM   #84
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What are you talking about? The 911 GT3 stickers at roughly the same price as the ZR-1. 911 Turbo is in the same ballpark.

Aside from that, I don't see how that answers my question. The purpose of buying these cars is that they cost a lot? I would venture the average owner of a new ZR-1 or Z06 is in a pretty high tax bracket themselves. Do you think there aren't C6 vette owners out there who don't also have Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc?
As a side note: check out the pic next to my name on the left. I'm standing next to a happy Corvette owner in front of his then Lamborghini Diablo. Yes, it's Mario Andretti. He has a 2001 Z06 and prior to that he owned a 1994 C4 vert. He doesn't usually keep cars that long, but he LOVED his C4 and put over 15K miles on it. I know that doesn't sound like a lot to many of us, but for Mario, that's quite a lot. He usually keeps his cars about 2-3 year. I asked him if he had any criticisms of the Corvette and he won't say anything bad about any car. He said that the manufacturers all do a fantastic job. He also went on to say that the Corvette is well worth it's price vs. the exotics.
His tax bracket is WAY beyond mine. He gets $20K for a personal appearance.
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      11-12-2008, 10:30 AM   #85
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No one is going to flame you for brining up facts. I don't think anyone here is debating the fact that GM/Ford are in trouble. Your previous point suggested that we let them go out of business so we can all get behind a "real" car company, that's where we have the issue.

As for the interior comparison (my 330 is very similar to the M3 in layout): the standard interior is good in the Corvette. The materials are good enough for the price point. Add the 3LZ package to get the all leather interior and it's much nicer looking and feeling. It's a matter of personal preference. I do like the BMW interior sans i-Drive. I hate that wart on the dash. It's an option on the M3, but then you loose the ability to configure the car.
As for the Z06 - once you're driving the car, you're not looking at the interior (heads-up display is perfect). You need to pay attention to where you're going because everything is coming up quick. Plain and simply, the car is still under priced by about $10-30K for the performance you're getting. If you want to upgrade the interior you can do so very nicely for about that price range ($20K will get you a complete leather interior for Callaway or Caravaggio - using Italian hides, better than most luxury car companies). Have you priced up the complete leather interior of a Porsche later? GM put all the money into the chassis and engine vs. the interior. The interior would be the cheapest to upgrade vs. re-engineering the suspension or adding an aluminum/magnesim frame after the fact. That being said, yes, the M3 does have a nicer interior IMO, but it's not perfect either.

I'm guessing that most people on this board are just looking for respect where respect is due and not dissing someone or some car "just because" it's a certain manufacturer. It's your opinion, but be realistic with what you're saying.
Corvettes are world class sports cars and not just a big engine. On the highway I would get around 26mpg with my car. It dynoed at 452rwhp.
I appreciate the reply. I feel like my points I was making earlier in this thread were completely valid however concerning my level of familiarity with the car and over all experience test driving it. It wasn't until recently that anyone gave a experience based rebutle that was valid to the issues I was raising and not just blind QQ'ing. And I'll mention agian that I was never calling into question how fast the car was. We all know it is fast. But I'm not a pro racecar driver. My car criteria doesn't need it to be the fastest, my criteria is more for driving pleasure and for it to be a fun drivers car. And this is the source for my previous arguments about the car. When I drove it, I felt it would be too harsh to drive daily. Perhaps it was just the conditions of the road though.
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      11-12-2008, 10:32 AM   #86
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No one is going to flame you for brining up facts. I don't think anyone here is debating the fact that GM/Ford are in trouble. Your previous point suggested that we let them go out of business so we can all get behind a "real" car company, that's where we have the issue.
You might be surprised sometimes...
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      11-12-2008, 11:09 AM   #87
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As a side note: check out the pic next to my name on the left. I'm standing next to a happy Corvette owner in front of his then Lamborghini Diablo. Yes, it's Mario Andretti. He has a 2001 Z06 and prior to that he owned a 1994 C4 vert. He doesn't usually keep cars that long, but he LOVED his C4 and put over 15K miles on it. I know that doesn't sound like a lot to many of us, but for Mario, that's quite a lot. He usually keeps his cars about 2-3 year. I asked him if he had any criticisms of the Corvette and he won't say anything bad about any car. He said that the manufacturers all do a fantastic job. He also went on to say that the Corvette is well worth it's price vs. the exotics.
His tax bracket is WAY beyond mine. He gets $20K for a personal appearance.
Question. How do you know Mario Andretti purchased his Corvettes? Possibly given to him by General Motors? That would be a great endorsment for the Corvette. If he did pay for his Corvettes it's a greater endorsment. Hans Stuck, He's being paid by BMW and I'm sure lots of incentives.
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      11-12-2008, 12:00 PM   #88
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I don't think my comment in raising the issue of GM dying was without validation either.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/168109?from=rss

They are clearly in trouble. What kind of a company losses $2.5billion in a single quarter? Unless they get help, they may or may not, the only other alternative would be for some other company to buy them out.
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No one is going to flame you for brining up facts. I don't think anyone here is debating the fact that GM/Ford are in trouble. Your previous point suggested that we let them go out of business so we can all get behind a "real" car company, that's where we have the issue.
+1 It's obvious that GM/Ford/Chrysler are in trouble and something has to be done.

UltimateBMW - Just curious, but I believe you made the comment before on the manufacturing/retail infrastructure already being in place for a new company to come in and "do it right". Who do you expect to do that, or where do you see the money coming from? Not flaming you, but asking a genuine question. It's not as simple as buying a plant, some dealers, and saying "let's make cars".

Given the turn the global market has taken lately, I don't see this as a likely option; which really leaves the US government's involvement as the only option. Keep in mind that in the mid 80's the French government stepped in and saved Renault from bankruptcy. It wasn't till over a decade later that the company was again privatized; but with their Nissan alliance, they have returned to profitability. I don't think the GM/Ford are beyond saving.
The reality is that the choices made in the past regarding the Big Three's legacy costs, have now come back to bite them in the ass. Those are the catalyst that caused this snowballing problem.


As for your other comment on your job in no "way, shape, or form going to be imposed upon if GM dies". If you don't want to share your profession, it's fine. But the global (let alone national) impact of GM going under is monumental. If you would truly be unaffected, consider yourself fortunate, but understand you're an exception.
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