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      11-12-2008, 12:04 PM   #89
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I'm guessing that most people on this board are just looking for respect where respect is due and not dissing someone or some car "just because" it's a certain manufacturer. It's your opinion, but be realistic with what you're saying.
+1

Could have not said this better myself. Fanboys are annoying and detract from the overall value of a messageboard.

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      11-12-2008, 12:04 PM   #90
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My appologies, when you mentioned the GT3 together with Ferrari, I had assumed you ment the GT3-RS. A basic GT3 is pretty much the same price as a ZR1.



I'm sure there are, but I also know plenty of C6 owners who don't own other expensive cars.
Way to dodge the questions.
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      11-12-2008, 12:13 PM   #91
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I was watching CNBC lastnight and nothing looks positive for the big three in the short term, long term perhaps with electric and hybrids, but they need help now.

Does anyone see all three being saved or is at least one going down?
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      11-12-2008, 12:35 PM   #92
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I was watching CNBC lastnight and nothing looks positive for the big three in the short term, long term perhaps with electric and hybrids, but they need help now.

Does anyone see all three being saved or is at least one going down?
Realistically, I don't see Chrysler continuing. I think GM and Ford will be the two that soldier on.

As for short term positives:
GM does have a hit with the new Malibu, CTS and the 2010 Chevy Cruze.
Ford has some great potential if they bring over the European design language.
But can they get these to the market soon enough?
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      11-12-2008, 01:02 PM   #93
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+1 It's obvious that GM/Ford/Chrysler are in trouble and something has to be done.

UltimateBMW - Just curious, but I believe you made the comment before on the manufacturing/retail infrastructure already being in place for a new company to come in and "do it right". Who do you expect to do that, or where do you see the money coming from? Not flaming you, but asking a genuine question. It's not as simple as buying a plant, some dealers, and saying "let's make cars".
What I ment when I said the infrastructure is already in place is... If GM or Ford dies. The factories, method of transport, and retail sites are already exsisting. If the corporate entity went bankrupt then these facilities would be liquidated or left vacant. So if a new brand was to emerge from the ashes they could easily take over these facilities, thats all.

As far as to whom it might be that came in and created this new entity, it could be from within. It could be a private investor or anybody for that matter. I was not surmising as to whom it would of been that would come in and create this new brilliant thing. Only that it would be possible, and since the physical sites are existing already, it wouldn't be too far fetched to expect it. (Assuming that GM or Ford had already died and were in this scenario beyond saving.) Whether they are beyond it now or not is a bit beyond us all. I tend to plan for the worst, hope for the best when I view things. No one really knows what is being said right now behind closed doors.

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As for your other comment on your job in no "way, shape, or form going to be imposed upon if GM dies". If you don't want to share your profession, it's fine. But the global (let alone national) impact of GM going under is monumental. If you would truly be unaffected, consider yourself fortunate, but understand you're an exception.
I am fully aware that I am an exception, and I also made note of this awareness when I first posted a comment regarding this new topic.
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If GM tanks, I wonder who would support maintenance and warranty issues?

Though I'm sure, as some have pointed out, this would probably be the least of most people's problems.
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      11-12-2008, 01:05 PM   #94
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+1

Could have not said this better myself. Fanboys are annoying and detract from the overall value of a messageboard.

QFT.
You fit this bill as well. You have offered very little towards this conversation that could be considered something of substance. Most of your replies have been simple commentary or petty flames.


So thats all I'll say in this regard.
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      11-12-2008, 01:13 PM   #95
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Way to dodge the questions.
I don't know what question you want me to answer? I already conceeded that your comparison of the ZR1 to a Porsche GT3 was valid.

There are poeple that have plenty of money to throw down where they please, and there are poeple that don't have as much money. If they truely like the car, I feel, as long as they have the minimum amount to purchase a C6, they will do so. Comparing an random sample of owners' other car purchases isn't really relevant to the topic of the C6 as a car itself, and how it behaves.

In any case, I should not have stereotyped the userbase for the Corvette model line. I appologise to anyone that might of taken offense. I'd like to focus back on user experience with the Z06, and that is far more interesting a topic than all this drama that has stirred up.
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      11-12-2008, 01:18 PM   #96
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As a reply to the fanboy title. While I do not take offense to it, and I don't mind donning it over my head. I'm not quite sure I fit the description either though.

My replies have been legible, coherent, and thought out. You might disagree with where I'm coming from, but you can't disagree that I, in my experience, could have just cause through a specific set of observations to back up the opinions I have formed. Beyond that, I have also shown a willingness to discuss the issue and learn beyond what I think I already know.

These are not the characteristics of your typical 'fanboy'.

Just thought I would throw that out there into the mix.
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      11-12-2008, 01:54 PM   #97
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You fit this bill as well. You have offered very little towards this conversation that could be considered something of substance. Most of your replies have been simple commentary or petty flames.


So thats all I'll say in this regard.
Seriously, stop following me.

As an aside, notice how the majority of the posters in this thread disagree with you, and agree with me?

You're the exception all right.
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      11-12-2008, 01:54 PM   #98
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My replies have been legible, coherent, and thought out. You might disagree with where I'm coming from, but you can't disagree that I, in my experience, could have just cause through a specific set of observations to back up the opinions I have formed. Beyond that, I have also shown a willingness to discuss the issue and learn beyond what I think I already know.

These are not the characteristics of your typical 'fanboy'.

Just thought I would throw that out there into the mix.
Do you ever stop talking about yourself or is this board just therapy for you?
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      11-12-2008, 01:55 PM   #99
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Realistically, I don't see Chrysler continuing. I think GM and Ford will be the two that soldier on.

As for short term positives:
GM does have a hit with the new Malibu, CTS and the 2010 Chevy Cruze.
Ford has some great potential if they bring over the European design language.
But can they get these to the market soon enough?
Nah Chrysler will be fine, the dodge challenger is selling like hot cakes and viper are still moving pretty well also. Dodge trucks are also selling pretty well so I think chrysler will be fine. Its Ford who I'm worried about
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      11-12-2008, 01:59 PM   #100
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Nah Chrysler will be fine, the dodge challenger is selling like hot cakes and viper are still moving pretty well also. Dodge trucks are also selling pretty well so I think chrysler will be fine. Its Ford who I'm worried about
chrysler is going to have to sell a lot more cars than challengers or vipers. those are niche market cars. they need to be selling all the little cars a lot more than they're selling their flagship models. little cars pay the bills.
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      11-12-2008, 02:02 PM   #101
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chrysler is going to have to sell a lot more cars than challengers or vipers. those are niche market cars. they need to be selling all the little cars a lot more than they're selling their flagship models. little cars pay the bills.
We'll my dealership is still selling 70-80 new cars a month compared to some VW, Mazda, and Ford stores who are only breaking 40-50 a month, which anything under 100 is still pretty damn alarming
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      11-12-2008, 02:08 PM   #102
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We'll my dealership is still selling 70-80 new cars a month compared to some VW, Mazda, and Ford stores who are only breaking 40-50 a month, which anything under 100 is still pretty damn alarming
a lot of it doesn't have to do with the fact that people don't want to buy cars, the credit markets really are frozen right now. until there is a little more liquidity in the credit markets, sales across the board will continue to suffer. whether or not the bailout will help is still to be determined, although i think it's a necessary start. check this out, paulson is talking about backing up the consumer credit markets, like credit cards and auto loans. if that happens, it should help out the big 3 pretty significantly, allowing them to lend again. (i'll say significantly with a grain of salt, in the end it's up to the american consumer.)
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      11-12-2008, 02:43 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
I was watching CNBC lastnight and nothing looks positive for the big three in the short term, long term perhaps with electric and hybrids, but they need help now.

Does anyone see all three being saved or is at least one going down?
I don't think they will.
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Originally Posted by nmulax View Post
Realistically, I don't see Chrysler continuing. I think GM and Ford will be the two that soldier on.

As for short term positives:
GM does have a hit with the new Malibu, CTS and the 2010 Chevy Cruze.
Ford has some great potential if they bring over the European design language.
But can they get these to the market soon enough?
Don't forget the potential the Camaro has. It's creating a huge buzz. And I believe there are enough people out there that desire the car for it to be built. However, it would be smart to not build so many that the market is saturated with them. That's one issue that needs to change.
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Nah Chrysler will be fine, the dodge challenger is selling like hot cakes and viper are still moving pretty well also. Dodge trucks are also selling pretty well so I think chrysler will be fine. Its Ford who I'm worried about
Dodge is looking to sell of the Viper though.
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a lot of it doesn't have to do with the fact that people don't want to buy cars, the credit markets really are frozen right now. until there is a little more liquidity in the credit markets, sales across the board will continue to suffer. whether or not the bailout will help is still to be determined, although i think it's a necessary start. check this out, paulson is talking about backing up the consumer credit markets, like credit cards and auto loans. if that happens, it should help out the big 3 pretty significantly, allowing them to lend again. (i'll say significantly with a grain of salt, in the end it's up to the american consumer.)
I agree. especially with your very last statement. This needs to be a HUGE WAKE UP CALL to every single consumer to not get in over your head.

You have to trust yourself, not the banks, C.U.'s, etc to have your best interest at hearts. The governments can't be the scape-goat and daddy-money-bags forever.
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      11-12-2008, 02:51 PM   #104
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Question. How do you know Mario Andretti purchased his Corvettes? Possibly given to him by General Motors? That would be a great endorsment for the Corvette. If he did pay for his Corvettes it's a greater endorsment. Hans Stuck, He's being paid by BMW and I'm sure lots of incentives.
I know Mario because I grew up about 20 minutes from where he lives. Over the years, I've gotten to know Larry, Mario's brother-in-law, quite well. I've gotten plenty of tickets for the Nazareth race including all-access pit passes and hospitality tent. My buddy and I were really close to traveling on Mario's private jet to one of the races, but they only had one seat available.
Yes, to answer your question, Mario did indeed purchase his Corvettes. He purchased it from a local dealership that he's been dealing with. He did get a little better deal than we could, but he did put out his own money to purchase the car. He's very pleased with it. I actually did an interview with him for the C5 Registry several years ago.
Here's the sad part - Ford wouldn't do anything for him when he wanted to purchase a new tow vehicle for the souvenir trailer, nothing. He won the Daytona 500, Indy 500 and the F1 title using Ford power and they wouldn't do anything.
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      11-13-2008, 12:49 AM   #105
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I know Mario because I grew up about 20 minutes from where he lives. Over the years, I've gotten to know Larry, Mario's brother-in-law, quite well. I've gotten plenty of tickets for the Nazareth race including all-access pit passes and hospitality tent. My buddy and I were really close to traveling on Mario's private jet to one of the races, but they only had one seat available.
Yes, to answer your question, Mario did indeed purchase his Corvettes. He purchased it from a local dealership that he's been dealing with. He did get a little better deal than we could, but he did put out his own money to purchase the car. He's very pleased with it. I actually did an interview with him for the C5 Registry several years ago.
Here's the sad part - Ford wouldn't do anything for him when he wanted to purchase a new tow vehicle for the souvenir trailer, nothing. He won the Daytona 500, Indy 500 and the F1 title using Ford power and they wouldn't do anything.
Private jet would have been nice. Funny, seven Fords in less than ten years(business and personal) plenty of blown trannys etc and not one extended courtesy. Not even Mario gets courtesies.
Did you happen to see top gear episode when JC took delivery on his Ford GT. In for sevice first day.
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      11-13-2008, 01:33 AM   #106
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This Red Tag sale is great and all but..

Isn't GM on the verge of having no cash left?

Same for Ford and Chrysler?

Their overhead costs are causing them to burn through cash like a Sarah Palin shopping spree.

But yeah.. the sale is cool.
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      11-13-2008, 12:48 PM   #107
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Ford is bringing their European cars here soon... and GM's Saturn division is basically RHD Opel... so hopefully those cars will bring them back to life. I would consider one if I am forced to sell my car.
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      11-13-2008, 03:24 PM   #108
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Ford is bringing their European cars here soon... and GM's Saturn division is basically RHD Opel... so hopefully those cars will bring them back to life. I would consider one if I am forced to sell my car.
Isn't there a TT Ford out in europe right now?

Why would you be forced to sell your car? Financial difficulties?
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      11-13-2008, 04:25 PM   #109
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Isn't there a TT Ford out in europe right now?

Why would you be forced to sell your car? Financial difficulties?
I live at home. If I moved out somewhere and couldn't afford rent or mortgage I would consider selling it.

All I know is that Ford of Europe gets some pretty good reviews on their cars... just look at their new Focus RS. I have heard Ford bringing their cars over here next year so you are still buying a domestic product, with European roots in it
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      11-13-2008, 04:43 PM   #110
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I live at home. If I moved out somewhere and couldn't afford rent or mortgage I would consider selling it.

All I know is that Ford of Europe gets some pretty good reviews on their cars... just look at their new Focus RS. I have heard Ford bringing their cars over here next year so you are still buying a domestic product, with European roots in it
+1, Ford would definately be alot better off if they ever bring them over. I believe the Mondeo is one of the top selling sedans over in Europe.
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