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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Breaking News: BMW addresses N54 Turbo Lag!!



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      11-18-2008, 06:22 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slant83 View Post
sounds like a "big brother" fix.....just a placebo to please the masses
Like I said dude, wait for the guinea pigs, hopefully no harm will come from this since it is "official"
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      11-18-2008, 06:49 PM   #46
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my manufacture date is march 08, so does this mean that mine never got the updated software? only got 4k miles on it and never been service since i bought it.
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      11-18-2008, 06:56 PM   #47
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No lag on my M3, but keeping the car at reasonable speeds is a very real problem.

Happy to hear there is a fix in the works for you guys... even if it is a month or two away.
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      11-18-2008, 07:00 PM   #48
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      11-18-2008, 07:35 PM   #49
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Sorry man. I didn't see this thread at first, so I post the same info here. My bad.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187168
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      11-18-2008, 07:39 PM   #50
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Seriously -- I'll let someone else try this out before getting too excited.

See, the issue we ALL suspect is with the actual turbo HARDWARE itself, which is why BMW detuned them in the 29.2 software update. They kept the wastegates open to reduce boost pressure and stress on the turbos... thus reducing performance, but saving the faulty hardware.

So, a real "solution" to me doesn't include a simple software update to "restore" responsiveness back to original specs -- that's a start, of course. However, if there's a real problem with the turbos, I want the HARDWARE fixed, too... and I think BMW owes this to owners of $45k - $50k cars, many with less than 20k miles on them! I'll be extremely pissed if the turbos fail out of warranty due to this problem.

I think the admission of the problem is a good start... now must come the questions regarding why it was detuned, what the mysterious noise is all about (we all know it's the wastegates but need them to start admitting it), and then finally a REAL long-term solution.

As someone else pointed out, there should be no "compromise" such as, "We'll let you have your original power back, but it'll mean you have a rattling engine that might fail on you!" That's UNACCEPTABLE, BMW!
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      11-18-2008, 07:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
No lag on my M3, but keeping the car at reasonable speeds is a very real problem.

Happy to hear there is a fix in the works for you guys... even if it is a month or two away.
Umm... I would hope your M3 has no turbo lag!
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      11-18-2008, 08:15 PM   #52
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Nice. What does the "possibility of slightly increased engine noise levels" mean? Increased Horse power?
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      11-18-2008, 08:29 PM   #53
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Just ordered a non turbo 328XI never liked turbo's because of that except the vw 2.0 fsi motor that motor has no lag at all not worth the extra 6k for lag
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      11-18-2008, 08:58 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90 awd View Post
Just ordered a non turbo 328XI never liked turbo's because of that except the vw 2.0 fsi motor that motor has no lag at all not worth the extra 6k for lag
Having driven the 2.0t extensively I can say that it in fact HAS lag and it is much more than the N54 with lag. I have driven the N54 with and without lag in a variety of cars and will say that before the software there was 0 lag in the car, the drive-by-wire was at fault and not the engine; with the software there was a flat spot of lag that varied from car to car.

2.0l 4 cylinder engine with a larger turbo has much more lag than a I6 with odd cylinders powering much smaller turbos (common sense, most would agree).

What I am working on now is seeing if in fact the 2009 has different hardware, as I was originally tipped to a few months ago and was the cause of the EPA delay.... if so I wonder if BMW is going to have a lot of turbos being replaced on pre-2009 cars or at least waste gates....
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      11-18-2008, 08:59 PM   #55
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Anybody have a link to the BMW NA statement, from an actual BMW website? I'd like to have a copy for my file if/when I go for the update. I can see it now, the dealer says "I have no idea what you are talking about....."

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      11-18-2008, 09:00 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90 awd View Post
Just ordered a non turbo 328XI never liked turbo's because of that except the vw 2.0 fsi motor that motor has no lag at all not worth the extra 6k for lag
When you figure the price of a 2k9 is 3300 more than a 2k7, with no improvements or barely anything different, suddenly a 2k7 335 is definitely worth the marginal cost over a 2k9 328. Why pay 3300 for nothing if you want to look at it that way? BMW says price increase yet the dollar gained 20% over the Euro. If money grew on trees and pigs could fly, people would embrace 2k9 pricing.
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      11-18-2008, 09:21 PM   #57
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Someone still uses 2k syntax? j/k

BMW: I am an a$$hole and I has lag. 6/2008 build.
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      11-18-2008, 09:31 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scollins View Post
Anybody have a link to the BMW NA statement, from an actual BMW website? I'd like to have a copy for my file if/when I go for the update. I can see it now, the dealer says "I have no idea what you are talking about....."

Scott,

The above statement was confirmed by several sources at BMWNA via myself at BimmerFile. BMW has reviewed the statement and it has gone through the necessary channels and is viewed as an official statement; ie- Thomas has signed off on it. Satch at the BMWCCA has also confirmed this statement.

I do not believe there will be a press release (have not heard of one and was in contact several times today) but there will be a TSB on it when the new software is released in January.

If there are any questions in general please let me know as I was specifically asked if I needed any more info. I think things are straight forward after the statement but there may be some loose ends I am not thinking of...


Best of luck!
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      11-18-2008, 09:41 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
When you figure the price of a 2k9 is 3300 more than a 2k7, with no improvements or barely anything different, suddenly a 2k7 335 is definitely worth the marginal cost over a 2k9 328. Why pay 3300 for nothing if you want to look at it that way? BMW says price increase yet the dollar gained 20% over the Euro. If money grew on trees and pigs could fly, people would embrace 2k9 pricing.
Price increase has more to it than just the Euro.... it is called price of parts etc. a 2009 car was costing $800 more in just steel than a 2008, that has nothing to do with the currency, BMW was not hedged for 2009 and also lost it shirt in the US for 2008, there needs to be some changes in pricing or you end up with Detroit.

All I know is that over the years BMW build quality is still better than the other options and it is worth the price point, I am not talking electronics here; I am talking about brakes, frame rails, suspension components, sound deadening and all that people normally do not look at. If you put even a 1 series up on a lift and look at the quality from below it is astounding.

Do the same thing with an Audi and you will see the opposite, it is not over built/engineered, but they make the stuff you see look good. I have had a bunch of Audis and still have one in the garage but as time has rolled on the build quality from each subsequent model year it has declined, they skimp here and then there etc... it amazes me.

Not to say BMW is immune to this but they are not on the same level, the new A4 does not even have auto A/C standard.... all to hit a price point...
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      11-18-2008, 09:50 PM   #60
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My 09 E93 was in last week to have my alarm installed and programmed. Originally I was told I could pick up the car the same day but then was informed they would have to keep it all night to update all of my software.

Is there anyway to tell what version I am running? Thanks.
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      11-18-2008, 09:53 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Price increase has more to it than just the Euro.... it is called price of parts etc. a 2009 car was costing $800 more in just steel than a 2008, that has nothing to do with the currency, BMW was not hedged for 2009 and also lost it shirt in the US for 2008, there needs to be some changes in pricing or you end up with Detroit.

All I know is that over the years BMW build quality is still better than the other options and it is worth the price point, I am not talking electronics here; I am talking about brakes, frame rails, suspension components, sound deadening and all that people normally do not look at. If you put even a 1 series up on a lift and look at the quality from below it is astounding.

Do the same thing with an Audi and you will see the opposite, it is not over built/engineered, but they make the stuff you see look good. I have had a bunch of Audis and still have one in the garage but as time has rolled on the build quality from each subsequent model year it has declined, they skimp here and then there etc... it amazes me.

Not to say BMW is immune to this but they are not on the same level, the new A4 does not even have auto A/C standard.... all to hit a price point...
As peoples' salaries, bonuses, home values, investments, did not experience much of an increase (many have no bonuses, decreased home values, 45%+ loss in investments), it's really of no consequence what difficulties BMW may or may not be facing today. Seeing 7 M3's on the lot (how many more are in the storage depot) last Fri. implied they cannot sell the vehicles that were wait listed prior to arrival. Personally, if I happened to be in the market for a BMW today, and I knew the price on a 46k car went up 3300 with no improvements or changes, I wouldn't buy it. Some would, but current sales would suggest not that many. That 3300 is a new Samsung 52" series 8 LCD with another thousand to spare. Or it isn't, it's a 2k9 BMW, with no enhancements or improvements.
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      11-18-2008, 10:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
No lag on my M3, but keeping the car at reasonable speeds is a very real problem.

Happy to hear there is a fix in the works for you guys... even if it is a month or two away.
No lag here either. But then again, no more worries with the the HPFP either.

Hope it all works out for you guys. I hope BMW turns their act around. I used to be a loyalist, but the way they're dealing with the N54 left a really sour taste in my mouth.

I miss the car, but not BMWNA.
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      11-18-2008, 11:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Scott,

The above statement was confirmed by several sources at BMWNA via myself at BimmerFile. BMW has reviewed the statement and it has gone through the necessary channels and is viewed as an official statement; ie- Thomas has signed off on it. Satch at the BMWCCA has also confirmed this statement.

I do not believe there will be a press release (have not heard of one and was in contact several times today) but there will be a TSB on it when the new software is released in January.

If there are any questions in general please let me know as I was specifically asked if I needed any more info. I think things are straight forward after the statement but there may be some loose ends I am not thinking of...


Best of luck!
What I would like to know is why the new progman is available on request for cars with build dates prior to September 2007, but is only available if a software update is otherwise needed on cars built 10/07 through 03/08? Do the 10/07- 03/08 cars have the detuned software notwithstanding revisions to the wastegate hardware?

I ask because my car has a 10/07 build date, and I always understood that it did not have the 29.2 software; however, I have always noticed that boost did not really kick in hard until around 3k rpms, and that seems to be the description of the 29.2 lag reported by those that received it.
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      11-18-2008, 11:30 PM   #64
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C. The fix shouldn't be optional -- it should be mandated for all cars.
Hell no, it should be optional. I have a 10/2007 build with pre 29.2 (I actually think it is 28.xx), but I have none of this notorious lag that everyone talks about. If I ever take my car into service they better not update my progman and I will make sure of it even if I have to make the service manager put it in writing. If you have this problem then, yes, it should be mandated. I'm sure BMW knows who they have already updated with this "progman lag" and should contact each individual.
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      11-18-2008, 11:34 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
No lag on my M3, but keeping the car at reasonable speeds is a very real problem.

Happy to hear there is a fix in the works for you guys... even if it is a month or two away.
Considering you need to wind it past 5k to get going, I would imagine that the case.
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      11-18-2008, 11:40 PM   #66
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Hell no, it should be optional. I have a 10/2007 build with pre 29.2 (I actually think it is 28.xx), but I have none of this notorious lag that everyone talks about. If I ever take my car into service they better not update my progman and I will make sure of it even if I have to make the service manager put it in writing. If you have this problem then, yes, it should be mandated. I'm sure BMW knows who they have already updated with this "progman lag" and should contact each individual.
I have the same build date, but I am not confident that I don't have the 29.2 or some equivalent. How do you know what your progman is? Does your power hit hard around 3k rpms?

Unlike the post 03/08 builds, BMW has not claimed that our cars (10/07 - 03/08) are not affected.
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