E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Breaking News: BMW addresses N54 Turbo Lag!!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-18-2008, 11:48 PM   #67
Fraggy
Brigadier General
Fraggy's Avatar
United_States
46
Rep
3,324
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 e90
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (11)

I bought off the lot, I dont know my production date. I hear its on the door panel, but there is so much there I cant find it. I bought my car in Oct 2007.
__________________
Step--Premium--Sport--Nav--20% Tint--Blacklines--18" Beyern Mesh--Michelin Super Sports--Bastuck Exhaust--M3 Steering Wheel--BMW Performance Springs--Koni--M3 Front/Rear Sways--
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 01:35 AM   #68
Well Marbled
And slathered in sauce.
Well Marbled's Avatar
11
Rep
438
Posts

 
Drives: Like an escaped convict.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Just off the information SuperHighway.I'm in the parking lot of the Strip Club w/ one of the dancers

iTrader: (1)

I love the idea......but......I'm gonna wait and see if it plays nicely with JB, SS TT et al. I think that one fella saying they introduced the 29.2 so that we'd end up asking for an updated that catches piggybacks is a bit of a stretch. They'd just update it and there it is, no need to piss everyone off for a year or so.

Having said that, I'll wait and see if they have a new flavor of super snooper built right in. And then wait til we find another way around it
Cos with a new version AND a Pback we are really gonna haul some serious a$$.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 03:36 AM   #69
Bluesummer
Lieutenant General
Bluesummer's Avatar
Taiwan
179
Rep
15,410
Posts

 
Drives: slower than Ayrton Senna
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Nürburgring, be there once, your heart, your soul will stay there.

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
2015 M4  [0.00]
2011 E82 135  [0.00]
2011 M3  [0.00]
2007 335  [0.00]
Finally...
__________________

R.I.P. Steve Noh
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 04:11 AM   #70
Humtek
Vishnu Powered
Humtek's Avatar
United_States
28
Rep
2,205
Posts

 
Drives: 335xi, S1000RR
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Proceding

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda888 View Post
I have the same build date, but I am not confident that I don't have the 29.2 or some equivalent. How do you know what your progman is? Does your power hit hard around 3k rpms?

Unlike the post 03/08 builds, BMW has not claimed that our cars (10/07 - 03/08) are not affected.
I know because 29.2 came out after I had received my car and I have not taken it in for service yet. Also, there was an added iDrive ipod feature that was added in 28.xx which I have so I know I have atleast 28.xx, but not 29.2. No lag, my car feels like a rocket.
__________________
2008 335xi Sedan | Titanium Silver | Black Dakota
PROcede v5 | Vishnu Exhaust | BMS DCI | AR Catless DPs | Helix FMIC | Stett Charge w/ Tial BOV | MORR VS8s | KWv3
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 08:04 AM   #71
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,331
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutballa View Post
Nice. What does the "possibility of slightly increased engine noise levels" mean? Increased Horse power?
EZMASS sums it up in a nutshell, "...See, the issue we ALL suspect is with the actual turbo HARDWARE itself, which is why BMW detuned them in the 29.2 software update. They kept the wastegates open to reduce boost pressure and stress on the turbos... thus reducing performance, but saving the faulty hardware.

So, a real "solution" to me doesn't include a simple software update to "restore" responsiveness back to original specs -- that's a start, of course. However, if there's a real problem with the turbos, I want the HARDWARE fixed, too... and I think BMW owes this to owners of $45k - $50k cars, many with less than 20k miles on them! I'll be extremely pissed if the turbos fail out of warranty due to this problem....."

People were complaining about wastegate rattle, and BMW 'fixed' it by leaving the wastegates open (stopped the rattle), but that introduced lag. So when BMW say's "more noise" we think what they mean is the return of wastegate rattle.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 08:13 AM   #72
MadManMax3000
New Member
0
Rep
12
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E90 335xi, Montego/Black
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

I'm having my '09 335xi built right now, will I have the software with lag? Will they force me to update it in January and will I want the update?

Also, if I'm planning on getting a Juicebox 3 does it even matter?

Sorry for the noobness
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 10:17 AM   #73
ndahbar
Private First Class
ndahbar's Avatar
4
Rep
112
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 530i
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erregend View Post

vrooooooooooooooooooooooooo
*OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

If the "*" is at 1500RPM then NO,
but if it is at ~3000RPM then YES.
It's so ridiculous even before this lag issue ever surfaced that the claim of "300 lb-ft @ 1400-5000". Yeah whatever. It's not even at 2K, more like ~2200 or ~2300. As of 29.2 I am not sure, but sounds like ~3K now.

Some people may claim "yeah but, do u really want your max torque to be at that low an rpm?" What? Hell yeah I do, as long as it doesn't drop anywhere in the mid range.

They should stop advertising this as "amazing low end torque". Low end to me is under 2300rpm.

Well as we know the 300 lb-ft figure in and of itself is bogus as we know too.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 10:31 AM   #74
iScream
solid @ 153, no, 155mph!
iScream's Avatar
United_States
5
Rep
330
Posts

 
Drives: '07/'09 335 nav/prem/sport/6mt
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndahbar View Post
It's so ridiculous even before this lag issue ever surfaced that the claim of "300 lb-ft @ 1400-5000". Yeah whatever. It's not even at 2K, more like ~2200 or ~2300. As of 29.2 I am not sure, but sounds like ~3K now.

Some people may claim "yeah but, do u really want your max torque to be at that low an rpm?" What? Hell yeah I do, as long as it doesn't drop anywhere in the mid range.

They should stop advertising this as "amazing low end torque". Low end to me is under 2300rpm.

Well as we know the 300 lb-ft figure in and of itself is bogus as we know too.
Uh, I have an '06 build, and I definitely used to have full pull by around 1700-1800, depending on the gear, but not anymore. Gosh, that was so long ago...
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 10:33 AM   #75
Aurora Bearialis
¡Barça!
Aurora Bearialis's Avatar
Spain
122
Rep
12,042
Posts

 
Drives: Rainbow Sandals
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2008 E92 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to Aurora Bearialis Send a message via Yahoo to Aurora Bearialis Send a message via Skype™ to Aurora Bearialis
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
No lag on my M3, but keeping the car at reasonable speeds is a very real problem.

Happy to hear there is a fix in the works for you guys... even if it is a month or two away.
yeah, cause it's not turbo
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 10:45 AM   #76
TT3 iN NyC
Colonel
TT3 iN NyC's Avatar
United_States
39
Rep
2,314
Posts

 
Drives: AW/CR e92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: nYc

iTrader: (8)

Send a message via AIM to TT3 iN NyC
Just confirmed it with BMW NA to make sure. The representative said she got a notice today regarding the issue. I asked her to mail me a copy of that statement as well as put a note on my account that I qualify for this software update. I don't want to hear any BS from the dealership when I bring it in for the update.

And now, the wait begins....
__________________
'07 e92 335i: Alpine White/Coral Red/Aluminum Trim
COBB S2+FMIC | Stett CAI | Stett CP | ETS FMIC | FORGE DVs | AR DPs | 335iS Mufflers |
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 10:48 AM   #77
Tag
Colonel
Tag's Avatar
United_States
111
Rep
2,626
Posts

 
Drives: bimmer
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CHICAGO

iTrader: (2)

BMW's turbo lag statement has been posted on MotorAuthority as well...

http://www.motorauthority.com/bmw-ac...re-update.html
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 10:48 AM   #78
Aurora Bearialis
¡Barça!
Aurora Bearialis's Avatar
Spain
122
Rep
12,042
Posts

 
Drives: Rainbow Sandals
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2008 E92 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to Aurora Bearialis Send a message via Yahoo to Aurora Bearialis Send a message via Skype™ to Aurora Bearialis
Quote:
Originally Posted by damadama View Post
Comments like this make the m3 owners think the rest of 3 series drivers are young dumb pricks.
or M3 drivers don't know what they are driving, that guy quoted the M3 driver that said he doesn't have a turbo lag be cause he doesn't have turbos
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 11:05 AM   #79
vgame64
Colonel
vgame64's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
2,480
Posts

 
Drives: BMW 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (9)

I don't understand this statement: it will be available for vehicles produced from September 2007 through March 2008 when they are brought to an authorized BMW center for a repair which requires a programming update. Clients with vehicles produced from June 2006 through September 2007 may request installation of the January 2009 software update.

So is it up to March 08 or September 07? Or is it June 06 to March 08?

And why stop at March 08?

Last edited by vgame64; 11-19-2008 at 11:25 AM.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 11:38 AM   #80
Daya
Lieutenant Colonel
Daya's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
1,678
Posts

 
Drives: e92 335 space gray/coral red
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2007 E92 335  [4.83]
If you have a production date between 6/06-9/07 you automatically qualify for the software update. You bring your car in, ask for the update, no questions asked.

If you have a production date between 9/07-3/08 there has to be some other problem with your car (other than the lag issue) for you to get the update without the possibility of the dealer giving you a hard time and refusing service. I would recommend complaining about slow/frozen iDrive performance (if you have it), or other commonly known issues.

I have no idea why production dates of 3/08-present are getting excluded, plenty of people with these dates are experiencing lag. I bet BMWNA will change their mind about this the sooner we get to January.

Luckily I am a March 2007 build with a dreaded post-v29.2 update, so I will be one of the first people in line in January.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vgame64 View Post
I don't understand this statement: it will be available for vehicles produced from September 2007 through March 2008 when they are brought to an authorized BMW center for a repair which requires a programming update. Clients with vehicles produced from June 2006 through September 2007 may request installation of the January 2009 software update.

So is it up to March 08 or September 07? Or is it June 06 to March 08?

And why stop at March 08?
__________________

GIAC S2 | Brembo GT BBK 355/345 | BBS CH-R | Michelin Pilot Super Sports | AR Design: DP, S1 Oil Cooler, OCC | AMS FMIC | Bastuck Quad Exhaust | Borla MP | KW V1 | Stett: CAI, CP | Forge DV | P3 Boost Gauge | Arkym: Front Lip, Rear Quad Diffuser | Vorsteiner CSL Trunk | LUX H8 | ModMyNav | MFD M3 Sideskirts | BMW M-Tech Front/Rear Bumpers, Edition Grills
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 12:32 PM   #81
darkphantom
Banned
162
Rep
5,949
Posts

 
Drives: E93 335i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The place for Bimmers

iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to darkphantom
Quote:
Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC View Post
Just confirmed it with BMW NA to make sure. The representative said she got a notice today regarding the issue. I asked her to mail me a copy of that statement as well as put a note on my account that I qualify for this software update. I don't want to hear any BS from the dealership when I bring it in for the update.

And now, the wait begins....
And so....we will wait.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 12:55 PM   #82
DrGP
Lieutenant Colonel
DrGP's Avatar
45
Rep
1,916
Posts

 
Drives: Sapphire 335i coupe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
EZMASS sums it up in a nutshell, "...See, the issue we ALL suspect is with the actual turbo HARDWARE itself, which is why BMW detuned them in the 29.2 software update. They kept the wastegates open to reduce boost pressure and stress on the turbos... thus reducing performance, but saving the faulty hardware.

So, a real "solution" to me doesn't include a simple software update to "restore" responsiveness back to original specs -- that's a start, of course. However, if there's a real problem with the turbos, I want the HARDWARE fixed, too... and I think BMW owes this to owners of $45k - $50k cars, many with less than 20k miles on them! I'll be extremely pissed if the turbos fail out of warranty due to this problem....."

People were complaining about wastegate rattle, and BMW 'fixed' it by leaving the wastegates open (stopped the rattle), but that introduced lag. So when BMW say's "more noise" we think what they mean is the return of wastegate rattle.

Its cheaper for BMW to put a bandaid on the problem by adjusting the software that to actually fix the hardware. PLUS if there is a real turbo problem, many will operate without issue "during the warranty period". After that, BMW is no longer on the hook for the repair. In fact they will be making money on parts and labor. It all about the money.
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 01:20 PM   #83
Humtek
Vishnu Powered
Humtek's Avatar
United_States
28
Rep
2,205
Posts

 
Drives: 335xi, S1000RR
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Proceding

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGP View Post
Its cheaper for BMW to put a bandaid on the problem by adjusting the software that to actually fix the hardware. PLUS if there is a real turbo problem, many will operate without issue "during the warranty period". After that, BMW is no longer on the hook for the repair. In fact they will be making money on parts and labor. It all about the money.
Until AMS or VKM come out with their turbo kits. Who would want to put in stock turbos then?
__________________
2008 335xi Sedan | Titanium Silver | Black Dakota
PROcede v5 | Vishnu Exhaust | BMS DCI | AR Catless DPs | Helix FMIC | Stett Charge w/ Tial BOV | MORR VS8s | KWv3
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 01:37 PM   #84
BMdblU
Brigadier General
Canada
46
Rep
3,850
Posts

 
Drives: with no destination
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 416

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameal999 View Post
or M3 drivers don't know what they are driving, that guy quoted the M3 driver that said he doesn't have a turbo lag be cause he doesn't have turbos
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 06:34 PM   #85
cda888
Private
1
Rep
61
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daya View Post
If you have a production date between 6/06-9/07 you automatically qualify for the software update. You bring your car in, ask for the update, no questions asked.

If you have a production date between 9/07-3/08 there has to be some other problem with your car (other than the lag issue) for you to get the update without the possibility of the dealer giving you a hard time and refusing service. I would recommend complaining about slow/frozen iDrive performance (if you have it), or other commonly known issues.

I have no idea why production dates of 3/08-present are getting excluded, plenty of people with these dates are experiencing lag. I bet BMWNA will change their mind about this the sooner we get to January.

Luckily I am a March 2007 build with a dreaded post-v29.2 update, so I will be one of the first people in line in January.
I still don't understand why the 09/07 - 03/08 cars aren't automatically included. Do they have revised hardware but detuned software?

From all of the discussion, it looks like BMW changed the hardware in some way on 09/07, but the 09/07 - 03/08 cars must still be different somehow from the 04/08- present cars in some way. Otherwise, why would BMW say that only the cars built after 03/08 are unaffected?

Simply stated, how are the 09/07 - 03/08 cars different from the ones that came before and after? I suspect these cars have better hardware but detuned software, and that 29.2 was just the version that was retroactively applied to pre-09/07 cars beginning sometime in April of 2008.
__________________
2008 E90 335i Arctic Metallic over Black Dakota, Aluminum, ZPP, ZSP, Heated Seats, Power Shade, CA, Ipod, Sirius
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 06:45 PM   #86
cda888
Private
1
Rep
61
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Utah

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humtek View Post
I know because 29.2 came out after I had received my car and I have not taken it in for service yet. Also, there was an added iDrive ipod feature that was added in 28.xx which I have so I know I have atleast 28.xx, but not 29.2. No lag, my car feels like a rocket.
Humtek, I am in the same position. My car is a 10/07 build. I always assumed that since 29.2 came out after I bought my car and I had never had a software update, I did not have the detuned software.

However,in my car if you turn all traction control off, put it in first DS and choose first gear, and floor it, the boost does not really "hit" until around 3k rpms. Those with early build cars (before 09/07) without 29.2 claim that boost hits hard at around 15k rpms or less. Those with 29.2 describe boost hitting hard around 3k rpms.

When you combine this with the fact that BMW has not put the 09/07 - 03/08 cars in the same category as the cars built after 03/08, you have to wonder whether our cars were detuned from the factory somehow.
__________________
2008 E90 335i Arctic Metallic over Black Dakota, Aluminum, ZPP, ZSP, Heated Seats, Power Shade, CA, Ipod, Sirius
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 07:23 PM   #87
am_ver
Lieutenant
United_States
11
Rep
586
Posts

 
Drives: Audi A6
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SF Bay Area (Woodside)

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda888 View Post
When you combine this with the fact that BMW has not put the 09/07 - 03/08 cars in the same category as the cars built after 03/08, you have to wonder whether our cars were detuned from the factory somehow.
I did notice a difference in performance between my 07 coupe (10/06 production) and the 08 vert (10/07 production). I always thought that it was because the vert was heavier - but it is possible that the e93 engine is detuned!!
__________________
2006 A6 3.2 Quattro

2008 e93 335i, 6sp MT, Montego Blue, Saddle, Burl, ZSP, Bluetooth, iDrive, PDC, V1+CD
2007 e92 335i coupe, 6sp MT, Montego, Beige, ZPP, iDrive, PDC
2006 e90 325i, ZPP, iDrive, Arctic, Xenon
Appreciate 0
      11-19-2008, 07:42 PM   #88
Humtek
Vishnu Powered
Humtek's Avatar
United_States
28
Rep
2,205
Posts

 
Drives: 335xi, S1000RR
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Proceding

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cda888 View Post
Humtek, I am in the same position. My car is a 10/07 build. I always assumed that since 29.2 came out after I bought my car and I had never had a software update, I did not have the detuned software.

However,in my car if you turn all traction control off, put it in first DS and choose first gear, and floor it, the boost does not really "hit" until around 3k rpms. Those with early build cars (before 09/07) without 29.2 claim that boost hits hard at around 15k rpms or less. Those with 29.2 describe boost hitting hard around 3k rpms.

When you combine this with the fact that BMW has not put the 09/07 - 03/08 cars in the same category as the cars built after 03/08, you have to wonder whether our cars were detuned from the factory somehow.
I noticed your in Utah. You at high altitude? If so, then there is your lag right there, not the car. I'll have to double check, but I think I hit boost hard around 2k - 2.5k and I"m at 7300ft with a 6MT.
__________________
2008 335xi Sedan | Titanium Silver | Black Dakota
PROcede v5 | Vishnu Exhaust | BMS DCI | AR Catless DPs | Helix FMIC | Stett Charge w/ Tial BOV | MORR VS8s | KWv3
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST