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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Any qualms on being the first to get a new 335i? Turbo reliable?



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      05-09-2006, 07:57 AM   #23
akhbhaat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed328ci
Twin turbos in gasoline engine is a new production concept for BMW. I would wait a year or two.

Ed
Twin turbos are new, perhaps, but the company itself has plenty of experience with turbocharging. Since they're not using an overly complicated sequential setup, I don't see it as being a particularly worrisome issue.

BMW was the first European manufacturer to race a turbocharged production car on the touring car circuit, and has produced numerous turbocharged gasoline engines, most recently into the mid/late 80s. In fact, the M division was even planning to turbocharge the S14 (E30 M3 engine), but this was abandoned due to lack of development funding from the parent company.
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      05-09-2006, 08:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. BMW
My 96 328 Had a lot of problems, brake rotors, alarm, radio, clutch, etc.. That was the first year of the 328.

My 01 330 had many problems, brake rotors, control arm bushings, AC oder, sunroof module, steering rack, clutch. That was the first year of the 330 and I had the car less than 2 years

So as you can see, many issues in the first model year.
First years for the 328 and 330, perhaps, but the fifth year of E36 production and the third of E46 - the only real changes those models had over their predecessors were drivetrain modifications. Issues like control arm bushings (which are practically a wear item to begin with due to their rubber construction) and radio failures have absolutely nothing to do with the engine or the drivetrain. ALL of the problems you've mentioned in the 330i, for example (including the clutch - which I presume failed due to a faulty self-adjusting mechanism), are common to the E46 line as a whole, and not any one specific model and/or year of production.
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      05-09-2006, 08:20 AM   #25
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Control arm bushings were clearly the achilles heel of the E46, with a high % needing replacement before 100k miles. Brakes and clutches were more contingent upon owner driving style. Most clutches make it past 100k. Most brakes past 50k. AC odor preventable if you shut AC off before stopping for the night, allowing it to dry out.

Overall a simple E46 without a lot of electronic gadgets is a very reliable, long-lasting vehicle, regardless of build year.

The E90 has had more issues with software and the runflats.
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      05-09-2006, 09:55 AM   #26
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With any 1st year car, no matter who the manufacturer is, there will be more issues than with later models. Part of the price you pay buying a 1st year car is the greater risk of a systemic problem. There just isn't a way for a manufacturer to discover all the possible problems through their own testing without the benefit of the "beta testing" done by consumers in a wide range of environments after the car is released. This is true in any industry, from software to pharmaceuticals.

That being said, I doubt you will see serious mechanical problems with the turbos. The 3 series, non-M engines are the life-blood of BMW, sort of "ground zero" for the entire company. If those fail, the shockwaves will ripple widely. Therefore, you can bet BMW has the turbos well under control. While you may see some minor issues (things like cold-engine rattles for example) that are later fixed with TSBs, I'd be shocked if you had any kind of a failure rate for the engines themselves. You will probably see other areas that have gremlins as well, particularly on any parts not shared with the E90, but they will likely be minor ones.

It won't stop me from ordering one this fall.
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      05-09-2006, 12:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat
...BMW was the first European manufacturer to race a turbocharged production car on the touring car circuit, and has produced numerous turbocharged gasoline engines, most recently into the mid/late 80s. In fact, the M division was even planning to turbocharge the S14 (E30 M3 engine), but this was abandoned due to lack of development funding from the parent company.
I know all that, except BMW has not sold a MASS PRODUCTION turbo gasoline engine for thirty years.

Ed
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      05-09-2006, 12:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc
...Overall a simple E46 without a lot of electronic gadgets is a very reliable, long-lasting vehicle, regardless of build year.

The E90 has had more issues with software and the runflats.
Ahem, subframe mount issues in early E46 and all E36. Cough. Cough.
Guess how I know? :mad:

Quote:
Originally Posted by r_liebo
...That being said, I doubt you will see serious mechanical problems with the turbos. The 3 series, non-M engines are the life-blood of BMW, sort of "ground zero" for the entire company. If those fail, the shockwaves will ripple widely. Therefore, you can bet BMW has the turbos well under control...
There was no TSB in North America for the e46 subframe issue, though, I was lucky enough to have my dealership help me out.

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      05-09-2006, 12:49 PM   #29
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I would be interested in the differences btw euro and NA maintenance issues. E.g., did euro early E46s have subframe mount problems? Ditto for control arm bushings? Or were these more a local NA phenomenon?
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      05-09-2006, 03:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc
I would be interested in the differences btw euro and NA maintenance issues. E.g., did euro early E46s have subframe mount problems? Ditto for control arm bushings? Or were these more a local NA phenomenon?
Yes. It was a worldwide issue.

Ed
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      05-09-2006, 04:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed328ci
I know all that, except BMW has not sold a MASS PRODUCTION turbo gasoline engine for thirty years.

Ed
Turbocharging itself like your post indicates has been around for some time and I think its reasonable to assume BMW is able to pull this off without problems. Its not really a technically challenging thing in my view. Maybe add in direct injection and one becomes a tad more skeptical.

I think the design will be good but if there will problems it will be the quality of the parts they use and how they fit together. I don't get great feelings of the quality of the parts modern German cars use. Yah yah I don't have solid evidence although there have been some reliability surveys in which many German car manufacturers didn't come out high.
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      05-09-2006, 05:14 PM   #32
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The 3 series is the bread and butter for BMW.
The 3.0 NA engine will be the majority of the next E90, not the turbo.
The "lower power" 3 sells at least 2:1.
328 will be the bread and butter engine. But, I agree if the turbo's become problematic it will resonate throughout the line for a bit.
The M3 issue was fixed, some with work some with extending the warranty.
But, the M3 is a low volume model.

I'm wondering how long the oil drain interval will be in the turbo engine with BMW picking up the tab?
In NA engines I'm all for long drain and synthetic. In turbo's I cut 30% out of the mileage and go sooner. So, if it's 15k before, then I would go with 10k in the turbo. It'll be interesting to see the BMW oil change.
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      05-09-2006, 08:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qroc
Turbocharging itself like your post indicates has been around for some time and I think its reasonable to assume BMW is able to pull this off without problems. Its not really a technically challenging thing in my view. Maybe add in direct injection and one becomes a tad more skeptical.

I think the design will be good but if there will problems it will be the quality of the parts they use and how they fit together. I don't get great feelings of the quality of the parts modern German cars use. Yah yah I don't have solid evidence although there have been some reliability surveys in which many German car manufacturers didn't come out high.
It is a challenge. There is significantly higher mean effective pressure in the engine that the cylinders all have to deal with. There is also significantly higher heat both going into the engine and in the engine bay itself, so you need a robust cooling system. You need a sturdy engine block also that will not fatigue or warp, same with the heads. The turbos themselves are quite challenging because they're subject to constant acceleration and deceleration to and from 100,000 rpm or more, and handle the extremely high exhaust gas temperatures of petrol engines which can exceed 1000C. And they're expected to be reliable for the life of the car. The entire engine needs retuning as well both for performance and emissions because NA engines need different things than FI engines. The powerband needs to be smooth so that means minimal lag and zero boost surges or other unexpected phenomena. There are detonation issues to worry about also.

There are plenty of historical examples out there of what can go wrong with poorly designed turbocharged engines. Audi has a lot of recent ones. Oil gelling and huge coil pack issues on their 1.8T engines, and the 2.7TT V6 engines had poor thermal management which results in a lot of turbo failures. Even Toyota 2JZ-GTE engines from the Supra TT were known for secondary turbo failure on their sequential setup. The more complex you make an engine, the more difficult it is to bulletproof it. It's not easy by any means.
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      05-10-2006, 12:55 AM   #34
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how reliable do you think the turbo will be?

so im looking forward for the 335i to come out but how reliable do you think it will be? i know we should probably be trusting bmw with the turbo since they probably tested it out for quite a while but what does everyone else think about the turbo?
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      05-10-2006, 01:21 AM   #35
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Should be reliable, but first year may require some debugging.

Turbos have been around a while in European cars in Audi/VW, Volvo, Saab, etc. Not much problems, other than some recalls for placing heat shields to protect some oil lines in Audi's 1.8T.

Having said that, however, I don't trust pre-owned cars with turbos because I don't know how the previous owner has taken care of the turbo. Especially with turbos requiring some cool down time before shut down, I shudder at the thought of someone driving spiritedly home in the last 10 minutes only to shut down in the garage immediately after, with the turbo still red hot.
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      05-10-2006, 01:29 AM   #36
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do turbo cars generally last a long time 4+ years without much problems?
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      05-10-2006, 04:21 AM   #37
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thats what i wanna know too
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      05-10-2006, 05:31 AM   #38
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BMW have been selling turbo cars for years already.
What do you think the diesels have bolted onto them, and they last for years and hundreeds of thousands of miles.

What they will be like when they are tuned and the boost is increased is another matter, but can't wait to find out!!
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      05-10-2006, 05:35 AM   #39
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I had a turbo Impreza and a 1.8 turbo Audi S3 with 270BHP tuned. The Audi engine was blown to pieces.

I think Japanese car manufacturers know more about turbos than german manufacturers. Turbos do worry me a BIG bit because of what happened with my Audi.

I think turbo engines are not made for trackday and severe use, only EVOs and Stis. IMHO.
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      05-10-2006, 05:37 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE
BMW have been selling turbo cars for years already.
What do you think the diesels have bolted onto them, and they last for years and hundreeds of thousands of miles.

What they will be like when they are tuned and the boost is increased is another matter, but can't wait to find out!!
I agree, but a turbodiesel isn't a turbo petrol engine. It's like talking about a Swedish and a Danish girl, you think they're 'the same' but they're not

So you have a DMS 535d? 320BHP? Read some tests. Great drive.
I love turbodiesels in general. I used to own a E46 330d too.
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      05-10-2006, 05:45 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood
I agree, but a turbodiesel isn't a turbo petrol engine. It's like talking about a Swedish and a Danish girl, you think they're 'the same' but they're not
.
Which one you prefer?

I think it is no wonder that your Audi's engine blew up after you have chipped(?) 100 hp more than the standard engine has. Depends of course what other modifications were done to the engine.
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      05-10-2006, 06:01 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFinn
Which one you prefer?

I think it is no wonder that your Audi's engine blew up after you have chipped(?) 100 hp more than the standard engine has. Depends of course what other modifications were done to the engine.
True, but I had my chip for only half a year and 15000kms(and some trackdays). It's just a small 1.8 four potter. But very very fast(almost E46 M3 like because of 370Nm torque) before the blow.

I dated 2 Danish girls in my life.No Swedish ones The first Danish girl I met in Spain lots of years ago. She was a cutie.
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      05-10-2006, 06:09 AM   #43
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Let get this right - you tune a 180 - 220BHP designed 1.8 ltr 4 pot to produce 270 and wonder why it blows up ?????

If Audi had done this they would have put a tougher crank in, better bearings etc etc... stronger gearbox to handle the power. If you do as an after market change then you can only expect trouble at some stage.

I have had two turbo's in the past and these days there are no reliability issues as long as you stay with the standard spec. Sure you can always abuse a car but you can do the same with a non turbo and the chances are you will thrash the non turbo a lot more trying to keep up with a moderately well driven turbo of equivalent capacity.
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      05-10-2006, 06:14 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood
True, but I had my chip for only half a year and 15000kms(and some trackdays). It's just a small 1.8 four potter. But very very fast(almost E46 M3 like because of 370Nm torque) before the blow.

I dated 2 Danish girls in my life.No Swedish ones The first Danish girl I met in Spain lots of years ago. She was a cutie.
I had VW with the same 1.8T engine but only 150hp version. I really liked the torque range. I had the car for six years and 90000 kms and no problem ever with the engine or the turbo charger.

I'd like to have one Danish girl as well
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