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      12-16-2008, 05:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
We are given the following information:
Quote:
Originally Posted by info
"Last night a school was vandalised by youths on motorbikes who were pulling wheelies on the football pitch"

"Stuart Brown owns a motorcycle"
The following statement is made:

Quote:
Originally Posted by statement
Stuart may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school
Is this A: TRUE; B: FALSE or C: IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL

?????
Known information:
Youths vandalized property
Vandals rode motorcycles.
Stuart Brown owns a motorcycle
Unknown information:
Age of Stuart Brown
Since one doesn't know the age of Stuart Brown one can not determine whether the statement is true or false even though the word "may" is used. Stuart Brown may be a middle aged guy with a beer belly and a ponytail that owns a motorcycle thus making the statement false. But if Stuart Brown is a fifteen year old kid the statement, with the word "may", is true; Stuart would be a youth that owns a motorcycle and may have been involved. This uncertainty in age renders the statement impossible to determine.

The answer is C even though NFS spilled the beans so early.
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      12-16-2008, 05:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixman View Post
I will side with what I believe a courtroom of my supposed piers would decide upon.
Brings a whole new meaning to being in the dock.
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      12-16-2008, 06:00 PM   #25
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Never liked Stuart. Always causing problems. I blame his parents. The boy's not innocent.. trust me.. I know him well.
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      12-16-2008, 06:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoYank View Post
Known information:
Youths vandalized property
Vandals rode motorcycles.
Stuart Brown owns a motorcycle
Unknown information:
Age of Stuart Brown
Since one doesn't know the age of Stuart Brown one can not determine whether the statement is true or false even though the word "may" is used. Stuart Brown may be a middle aged guy with a beer belly and a ponytail that owns a motorcycle thus making the statement false. But if Stuart Brown is a fifteen year old kid the statement, with the word "may", is true; Stuart would be a youth that owns a motorcycle and may have been involved. This uncertainty in age renders the statement impossible to determine.

The answer is C even though NFS spilled the beans so early.
Absolutely correct Floyd.

The people who are getting this wrong on pistonheads seem unable to grasp that they need to consider the possibility that Stuart is an youth AND the possibility that he is an adult.
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      12-16-2008, 06:16 PM   #27
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How do they know for certain it was "youths" it could have been dwarves on motorbikes?
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      12-16-2008, 06:30 PM   #28
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To go back on topic, I really have seen a drastic decline in the quality of pistonheads recently. Don't know if its t' young'uns but it's so argumentative, and non-reasoned at that.

... and to go back off-topic, Will, are you saying you have reason to believe said Stuart Brown may be a dwarf? Slanderous stuff...
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      12-17-2008, 01:33 PM   #29
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TRUE
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      12-17-2008, 03:02 PM   #30
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Look what happens when you dont do well on the test

[u2b][/u2b]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ROn_9302UHg

here here... we need brighter police and autobhans ..
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      12-17-2008, 03:34 PM   #31
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The answer is A: - the key word's in the statement being "may have" so yes its true he may have been one of the youths.

Another issue is the statement only mentions someone called Stuart - not Stuart Brown....
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      12-17-2008, 03:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by - Paul - View Post
The answer is A: - the key word in the statement being "may have" so yes its true he may have been one of the youths.

Another issue is the statement only mentions someone called Stuart - not Stuart Brown....
Yes Paul, I believe it was Stuart Little to blame.
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      12-17-2008, 04:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by - Paul - View Post
The answer is A: - the key word in the statement being "may have" so yes its true he may have been one of the youths.
I begun with this thought as well. Then I looked at the statement again, it's a "non-committing" statement. It's not "Stuart vandalized", in which case the answer will definitely be C. The statement doesn't say anything for certain, and as such is equivalent to saying "Stuart may not have vandalized". Because of this, both A and B are correct. But C cannot be true, the only time when C is correct is when a definitive statement is made, e.g. "Stuart vandalized".

I think I need to lie down...
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      12-17-2008, 04:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TofuTurkey View Post
I begun with this thought as well. Then I looked at the statement again, it's a "non-committing" statement. It's not "Stuart vandalized", in which case the answer will definitely be C. The statement doesn't say anything for certain, and as such is equivalent to saying "Stuart may not have vandalized". Because of this, both A and B are correct. But C cannot be true, the only time when C is correct is when a definitive statement is made, e.g. "Stuart vandalized".

I think I need to lie down...

if the answer is A or B - then isn't the answer C?


the statement

Originally Posted by statement
Stuart may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school


could read

Floyd may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school
Simon may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school
Paul may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school

etc etc - its true always - they "may have"
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      12-17-2008, 05:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by - Paul - View Post
if the answer is A or B - then isn't the answer C?


the statement

Originally Posted by statement
Stuart may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school


could read

Floyd may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school
Simon may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school
Paul may have been one of the youths who vandalised the school

etc etc - its true always - they "may have"
Floyd, Simon and Paul are not youths, so they cannot be one of the youths who vandalised the school.

Would the statement be true if Stuart was a youth?

Would it be true if he was not?
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      12-17-2008, 07:03 PM   #36
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It may of been Carlos....in fact, it probably was.
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      12-17-2008, 07:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFS View Post
Floyd, Simon and Paul are not youths, so they cannot be one of the youths who vandalised the school.

Would the statement be true if Stuart was a youth?

Would it be true if he was not?

Who said stuart is a youth?

Regardless -Stuart could be anyone - a youth or old - why does it matter?

It's as if the statement is trying to say that Stuart is certain person but it could be anyone - any name.

If the statement said Stuart Brown - then the outcome may be different but even then, it could be argued that there are many people with the same name - why infer it is the same person?
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      12-18-2008, 06:32 AM   #38
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The statement reads Stuart MAY ... so anyone may surely - A.
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      12-18-2008, 05:38 PM   #39
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I still think Stuart is a middle aged guy with a beer belly and ponytail who wouldn't even think of vandalizing anything much less a school.
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      12-18-2008, 07:39 PM   #40
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The issue here is that the question is poorly phrased. The answer the test is looking for is C - this is on the basis that it is a fairly simple test to see if candidates will incorrectly correlate stuart having a motorbike with the fact that the youths who vandalised the school where also on motorbikes.

It is human nature to make connections of this sort - correlating similarities and making assumptions. Its an evolutionary human trait. Human intelligence is required to ensure that connections are not made when there is no evidence to back it up - this is the basic analytical ability the test is looking for in candidates to ensure illogical connections are not made. This is a key skill for a police officer to ensure they don't jump to the wrong conclusions.

Answer A is therefore intended to be incorrect as it potentially indicates the testee is saying that because they are correlating stuart=motorbike with motorbike=vandal. It is not conclusive evidence.

The problem comes in the phrasing that suggests that stuart MAY be one of the vandals. Technically this statement is true. The fact that you don't know his age doesn't mean it isn't true. He still MAY be one of the vandals if he is a youth. It is impossible to tell, leading you back to answer C, but the fact remains that answer A is not technically incorrect. This is different to thinking its A because motorbike=vandal, which is the intended trap.

In this respect the question is rather poorly phrased.
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      12-18-2008, 07:56 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///ajd View Post
The issue here is that the question is poorly phrased. The answer the test is looking for is C - this is on the basis that it is a fairly simple test to see if candidates will incorrectly correlate stuart having a motorbike with the fact that the youths who vandalised the school where also on motorbikes.

It is human nature to make connections of this sort - correlating similarities and making assumptions. Its an evolutionary human trait. Human intelligence is required to ensure that connections are not made when there is no evidence to back it up - this is the basic analytical ability the test is looking for in candidates to ensure illogical connections are not made. This is a key skill for a police officer to ensure they don't jump to the wrong conclusions.

Answer A is therefore intended to be incorrect as it potentially indicates the testee is saying that because they are correlating stuart=motorbike with motorbike=vandal. It is not conclusive evidence.

The problem comes in the phrasing that suggests that stuart MAY be one of the vandals. Technically this statement is true. The fact that you don't know his age doesn't mean it isn't true. He still MAY be one of the vandals if he is a youth. It is impossible to tell, leading you back to answer C, but the fact remains that answer A is not technically incorrect. This is different to thinking its A because motorbike=vandal, which is the intended trap.

In this respect the question is rather poorly phrased.
Exactly. Which is why a lot of people on the PH thread are actually correct and NFS who I often find myself agreeing with is talking out of the bit of his anatomy which should be in contact with the heated seats.

Both A and C are correct answers. Answer C because it is genuinely impossible to tell but because of the way the question is phrased (poor use of English) A is also correct. From a logic point of view answer C (impossible to tell allows the possible answers "he was the bad guy" or "he wasn't the bad guy" which is the same as saying "he may have been the bad guy". C = A.

A is my answer because it makes a positive statement about something, i.e. it's including this Stuart person in the list of possible suspects based on the information available whereas C sounds like you are pissing off down the pub on friday afternoon and saying "I dunno".

Last edited by DaveC; 12-18-2008 at 08:11 PM.
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      12-18-2008, 08:01 PM   #42
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Stuart owns a motorCYCLE. The youths were on motorBIKES.
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      12-19-2008, 02:34 AM   #43
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Stuart owns a motorCYCLE. The youths were on motorBIKES.
Case closed.
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      12-19-2008, 02:42 AM   #44
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Case closed.
BOOM.
Mods please lock this thread.
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