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      12-17-2008, 02:22 PM   #1
KingKong
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DTC, Traction Control

Hey Guys....First time driving Manual, rear wheel drive in snow....and let me tell ya...I can feel slippage...from a stop and turning...I am thinking about putting something heavy in the trunk to see if it helps...I have snow tires....

So my question is, should I turn off Traction control?

What are the 2 settings and what do they do?

Press DTC once = ?
Press and Hold DTC = ?

Thanks...
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      12-17-2008, 02:35 PM   #2
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Push once. When snow is on the ground you need to allow a certain amount of slippage.

Also, adding 100lbs in trunk will help traction a lot.
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      12-17-2008, 03:07 PM   #3
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Given I've only owned my 3 series for less than a week, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

From BMW:
Quote:
Dynamic Traction Control (DTC).
Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) allows for sports-style driving dynamics even when DSC is controlling stability and when wheel traction is higher.

Dynamic Traction Control (DTC) is a sub-function of the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system that can be turned on and off. DTC has two major uses: to regulate traction and to enable sports-style driving while providing active stability control.
If the front wheels are stuck in snow and cannot spin properly, this leads to slip on the rear wheels (when they spin faster than the front wheels, generally a sign that performance has been exceeded) and DSC acts to change engine output: the power needed for forward movement is reduced. Switching to DTC has a positive effect on this situation, as traction is improved without a loss of power.
When DTC is on, it helps the driver alleviate the situation enough for DSC's measures to become effective. The driver retains complete control over the vehicle.


DSC = dynamic stability control: this will correct your under/oversteers - good for driving in the winter or wet conditions at higher speeds since it'll limit fishtailing.
DTC = dynamic traction control: this turns off correction for under/oversteers - good if you're stuck in deep snow going slowly (like a residential road - sort of like your 4x4). Correcting for steer is up to the driver.

So if you're driving around town, I would assume that the default setting (DSC) would be sufficient. If you're going out of the driveway and there's a lot of snow that's not shovelled, you'd use DTC. Turning DTC off would only be if you want to drift through a turn or something.
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      12-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #4
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I am still lost...sorry if I sound stupid...I did read the manual and did not understand...

When I turn on my car...Everything is turned on (DSC and DTC) correct?

When I press DTC, I turn in off?

When I hold DTC, Turns both DSC and DTC off?

or

When I turn on the car DSC is on on and DTC is off...

So, when I press DTC, it turns on....

Hold DTC, and everything is off?
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      12-17-2008, 03:36 PM   #5
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yeah, I am confuse too, I have auto tranny

I tried driving today in snow by pressing DTC once and it feels better in snow.
does it mean I am driving without DTC?

make any sense?

I want to have better control in snow, do I turn on DTC (default) or off (press it once)?
help us please ...
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      12-17-2008, 03:44 PM   #6
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shit now i am confused to LOL
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      12-17-2008, 04:07 PM   #7
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countersteer your way out!
Play Initial D all night and you will be okay!
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      12-17-2008, 04:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKong View Post
I am still lost...sorry if I sound stupid...I did read the manual and did not understand...

When I turn on my car...Everything is turned on (DSC and DTC) correct?

When I press DTC, I turn in off?

When I hold DTC, Turns both DSC and DTC off?

or

When I turn on the car DSC is on on and DTC is off...

So, when I press DTC, it turns on....

Hold DTC, and everything is off?
Both DTC and DSC are on when you start the car!
Press DTC button once to deactivate (Off) DTC. At this moment, DSC is still on.
Press and Hold DTC button for 3 second, both DTC and DSC will be deactivate (Off).
You can not have DTC activate and DSC deactivate (Off). Either DTC off or DTC and DSC off.
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      12-17-2008, 04:21 PM   #9
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why would you deactivate traction control when its more slippery out???? just leave it as is, the system works fine....
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      12-17-2008, 04:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanchan View Post
yeah, I am confuse too, I have auto tranny

I tried driving today in snow by pressing DTC once and it feels better in snow.
does it mean I am driving without DTC?

make any sense?

I want to have better control in snow, do I turn on DTC (default) or off (press it once)?
help us please ...
better control in snow is too have both DTC and DSC on. The computer will correct itself. Speaking from last year experience, DTC and DSC have saved my bud and not get stuck on a lower curve area where there were 5 cars were stuck at that spot already. DTC cut the power to get more grip rather than too much power and spin the tires even I was press the gas pedal all the way. I barely drifted by all thoes 5 cars who stuck.
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      12-17-2008, 04:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkish335 View Post
why would you deactivate traction control when its more slippery out???? just leave it as is, the system works fine....
Because when you’re going uphill in snowy/icy conditions and the DTC kicks in it applies the brakes and you loose momentum. Some wheel spin is acceptable as long as you move forward. Ultimately DTC will apply the brakes until all wheel spin has stopped which could leave you standing still. Once moving at an acceptable speed I agree that DTC on is a good thing and it will definitely save your ass that one time your not paying attention.

Last edited by Lazzer; 12-17-2008 at 09:25 PM.
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      12-17-2008, 07:23 PM   #12
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DTC works great when you want to do controlled power drifts in the snow
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      12-18-2008, 03:22 PM   #13
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Personal preference I guess.
I always hit the DTC button which turns off some of the 'nannies' but leaves enough so you don't overcook it in the snow (always tempting).
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      12-19-2008, 06:36 PM   #14
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Given where I live, I use DTC extensively during winter *now* as well as occasionally in the summer. As others have mentioned, according to BMW the DTC program is a subset (option) of the overall DSC

There are 3 modes, controlled by small DTC button on dash

1 >> DSC enabled *this is the default (startup) mode, and it means full dynamic stability control*
2 >> DTC *enabled by briefly pushing / releasing dash button* ... meant to be used when you want over-steer (summer) or in winter snow/ice conditions. It allows back end to slide without power being cut, and is most useful for better starts from a stop light or stop sign when there's limited traction. I recommend this setting for awful driving conditions
3 >> DSC/DTC totally disengaged. Enabled by pushing/holding dash button for 5 seconds. Only recommended for dyno testing, not street driving

Cruise control does NOT work when DSC is disabled (ie in either mode #2 or #3 above).
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      12-19-2008, 07:07 PM   #15
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So Calgary_Agent, right now (as in today) what setting are you using? Say on Macleod Tr and also on Deerfoot? Edmonton's roads are horrible and from what I heard, Calgary's pretty much the same.
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      12-19-2008, 07:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy M View Post
So Calgary_Agent, right now (as in today) what setting are you using? Say on Macleod Tr and also on Deerfoot? Edmonton's roads are horrible and from what I heard, Calgary's pretty much the same.
Andy, when it's like this *and just let me say the Calgary roads are shitty - covered with polished ice* I'm ALWAYS in DTC >> enabled by pushing the DTC button briefly.

With the Xi and DTC the car is great, but the laws of physics still apply.
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      12-20-2008, 08:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKong View Post

When I turn on the car DSC is on on and DTC is off...

So, when I press DTC, it turns on....

Hold DTC, and everything is off?


Yes this is right.
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      12-20-2008, 08:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soni View Post
Both DTC and DSC are on when you start the car!
Huh? Then what's the point of pushing the DTC button if it's already on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soni View Post
Press DTC button once to deactivate (Off) DTC. At this moment, DSC is still on.
So when i turn on the car, you're saying the DTC button on my car is the button that will turn off DTC? And once i push the button, the little yellow light on my screen that reads "DTC" means that DTC is OFF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soni View Post
Press and Hold DTC button for 3 second, both DTC and DSC will be deactivate (Off).
Ok i agree on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soni View Post
You can not have DTC activate and DSC deactivate (Off).
So BMW should call the default mode: DSC
and when you push the DTC button it should be called: DSC-DTC.
that would make more sense.
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      12-20-2008, 12:37 PM   #19
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I almost always press DTC once .. whether it's dry, rainy, or snowing. I can't deal with the nannies kicking in every second and cutting power. DSC on the other hand has saved my ass a couple times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turkish335 View Post
why would you deactivate traction control when its more slippery out???? just leave it as is, the system works fine....
Based on this comment, and your comment about "no need for sandbags" , you evidently don't know anything about driving a rwd car in winter conditions.
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      12-20-2008, 12:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Huh? Then what's the point of pushing the DTC button if it's already on?
You push the DTC button to turn off DTC feature. In most case you don't really touch it unless you few save enough that you have all the control of your car. Its one of the saftety feature, so when you turn on the car, it automatic on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoKids View Post
So when i turn on the car, you're saying the DTC button on my car is the button that will turn off DTC? And once i push the button, the little yellow light on my screen that reads "DTC" means that DTC is OFF?
Correct!! You can try out this few days on the snow. You should see that when the DTC is off (meaning the icon show up on the dash), the tires tend to spin a bit more before the computer kick in and cut your power.

PS. DTC off doesn't mean traction is turn off all the way, it will just cut your power later let you spin a bit more. For example, if you have your DTC on, the traction control will cut in immediately whenever it feel the tire has no traction. When the DTC is off, it will let thre tires spin a bit before it cut in.
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      12-20-2008, 01:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMdblU View Post
Based on this comment, and your comment about "no need for sandbags" , you evidently don't know anything about driving a rwd car in winter conditions.
evidently not. Shall I return my car back to the dealership? Maybe you can give me some lessons to drive?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=28

I actually learned to drive in the winter on my first car, which was a z28 in high school. There was no traction control and all season tires. So I think sandbags are a little overkill, just my opinion. I did find out that pressing the traction control button does help when you are trying to get out of deep snow, which helped this morning.

Don't get your panties all knotted up now.. you can keep your sandbags in the car
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      12-20-2008, 01:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkish335 View Post
evidently not. Shall I return my car back to the dealership? Maybe you can give me some lessons to drive?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=28

I actually learned to drive in the winter on my first car, which was a z28 in high school. There was no traction control and all season tires. So I think sandbags are a little overkill, just my opinion. I did find out that pressing the traction control button does help when you are trying to get out of deep snow, which helped this morning.

Don't get your panties all knotted up now.. you can keep your sandbags in the car

Would you like a cookie for the picture of you driving in the snow? Congrats.

It's really simple physics. Weight over the rear axle will help put the power to the rear wheels and gain traction. People have been doing it for decades with RWD.

Apparently your 3 series is different from everyone's. It is beneficial to active DTC when you are experiencing wheel slippage in adverse conditions to gain traction. Read the brief explanation of DTC/DSC on page 90 of your manual. You might learn something.
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