E90Post
 


European Auto Source
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > New & Preowned BMW Ordering / Pricing / Tracking Information Forum (including European Delivery) > BMW U.S. Price Increases (including new 7-series)



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-28-2008, 08:55 AM   #45
mapezzul
Special Agent
mapezzul's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
1,737
Posts

 
Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johndoe View Post
think the new BMWNA president is getting too anxious to make a name for himself.......with a stronger dollar (ie. weaker Euro), BMW is now getting back more Euros for the same US$70K M3 or say US$45K 3 series, but the exchange rate boom is not enough for BMW,....let's ALSO increase prices......

I understand the S Carolina plant dynamic but frankly 3 series is BMW's bread and butter and they are all imported in US...so BMW needs to get a bit less greedy when the overall economy is in the shit can......
Your logic is backwards and short sighted. Jim O is doing what is right to strengthen BMW. If you lower prices or offer rebates the brand as a whole becomes diluted and the values plummet. Ask the Big 3 how that works.

BMW will decrease production (they started this in July) and meet the demand. BMW is operating on pull strategy like the did in the 90's. A car is pulled (sold etc.) before it is built rather than built and pushed by sales tactics to the buyer. When there is not excess inventory there is no need to discount something. Once the 2008 models are gone the discounts will be over. Simple law of supply and demand.

BMW is hedged so they do not "get back" more per car they are locked in at a specific dollar valuation until the contract adjusts. BMW is also naturally hedged by producing cars for the US (E90) in South Africa... which is not on the Euro, but labor etc. is much cheaper.

And just so someone does not say... German production is better and start that battle. These cars are mostly built by robots the same robots, same materials etc. In many quality comparisons the cars from SA are of higher quality (some items are still done by hand obviously) and the Roslyn plant has won several awards...
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2008, 09:24 AM   #46
cycler
Major General
cycler's Avatar
88
Rep
8,067
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 Streetglide and 2011 Dyna
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Long Island NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Your logic is backwards and short sighted. Jim O is doing what is right to strengthen BMW. If you lower prices or offer rebates the brand as a whole becomes diluted and the values plummet. Ask the Big 3 how that works.

BMW will decrease production (they started this in July) and meet the demand. BMW is operating on pull strategy like the did in the 90's. A car is pulled (sold etc.) before it is built rather than built and pushed by sales tactics to the buyer. When there is not excess inventory there is no need to discount something. Once the 2008 models are gone the discounts will be over. Simple law of supply and demand.

BMW is hedged so they do not "get back" more per car they are locked in at a specific dollar valuation until the contract adjusts. BMW is also naturally hedged by producing cars for the US (E90) in South Africa... which is not on the Euro, but labor etc. is much cheaper.

And just so someone does not say... German production is better and start that battle. These cars are mostly built by robots the same robots, same materials etc. In many quality comparisons the cars from SA are of higher quality (some items are still done by hand obviously) and the Roslyn plant has won several awards...
I seem to agree on what you said in both your posts. I guess the only reason I was annoyed was that BMW did raise its price by $300. And no it will not be a deal breaker for me when I get a new one in a few months. The root of the what annoyed me was that BMW raised their prices twice in 3-4 months. If BMW would incorporated that $300 increase to the price increase back in October I dont think anyone would have cared. But its the psychological effect in had on some of us. And it annoyed a lot of potential customers that boom all of a sudden BMW raises its prices again. However on the other hand how do we know they wont raise their prices again in another 3-4 months. What if they raise their prices 2-3 times in a year. Thats when Ide like to see how some will justify this. Maybe Im wrong and it will not happend however when a company does raise prices 2 times in such a short period of time they might be starting a trend. I really hope I am totally wrong and that I am just taking outof my ass
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2008, 09:43 AM   #47
mapezzul
Special Agent
mapezzul's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
1,737
Posts

 
Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cycler View Post
I seem to agree on what you said in both your posts. I guess the only reason I was annoyed was that BMW did raise its price by $300. And no it will not be a deal breaker for me when I get a new one in a few months. The root of the what annoyed me was that BMW raised their prices twice in 3-4 months. If BMW would incorporated that $300 increase to the price increase back in October I dont think anyone would have cared. But its the psychological effect in had on some of us. And it annoyed a lot of potential customers that boom all of a sudden BMW raises its prices again. However on the other hand how do we know they wont raise their prices again in another 3-4 months. What if they raise their prices 2-3 times in a year. Thats when Ide like to see how some will justify this. Maybe Im wrong and it will not happend however when a company does raise prices 2 times in such a short period of time they might be starting a trend. I really hope I am totally wrong and that I am just taking outof my ass
They did the same thing last year; so this is not new and there will be a mid year increase as well.

They are choosing to incrementally increase price point gradually than roll it all into one increase. This is b/c of fluctuating market conditions. The next increase will more than likely be increases in options and other items such as destination.

I am actually glad that these cars are becoming more expensive.... I had written an opinion piece back in June on this and some other factors and it is nice to see that BMW is finally seeing the light:

That is the next part of the problem, if they continue to sell cars in increasing numbers by watering down the brand will BMW still be a strong marquee? Will 10 year old Johnny still dream of driving his first BMW, or since there are so many BMWs (including a great supply of pre-owned) Johnny sees them as what everybody drives (like a Camry) and decides he wants something that drives almost as nice but also wants it to be different. Up steps Jaguar (the new models being released are huge steps in the right direction) and the Italian Alfa Romeo. Part of the reason for the return of Alfa to the US is the exact scenario, they see an opening in the market where BMW once stood, the sporting/luxury niche with some flair.

I am a huge fan of the BMW product and understand the frustrations they have with being independent and not having the ability to reach economies of scale as others so easily can. I do not think branching out into niche markets and producing more cars is the answer. Porsche is a prime example of not needing to produce a lot of cars to make money, just making great cars and building in profit.

There is also the supply/demand factor with the current supply out reaching the demand cars will need to be discounted and thus killing the value of the brands used cars.... BMW needs to cut back or face serious repercussions.
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2008, 10:13 AM   #48
cycler
Major General
cycler's Avatar
88
Rep
8,067
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 Streetglide and 2011 Dyna
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Long Island NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
They did the same thing last year; so this is not new and there will be a mid year increase as well.

They are choosing to incrementally increase price point gradually than roll it all into one increase. This is b/c of fluctuating market conditions. The next increase will more than likely be increases in options and other items such as destination.

I am actually glad that these cars are becoming more expensive.... I had written an opinion piece back in June on this and some other factors and it is nice to see that BMW is finally seeing the light:

That is the next part of the problem, if they continue to sell cars in increasing numbers by watering down the brand will BMW still be a strong marquee? Will 10 year old Johnny still dream of driving his first BMW, or since there are so many BMWs (including a great supply of pre-owned) Johnny sees them as what everybody drives (like a Camry) and decides he wants something that drives almost as nice but also wants it to be different. Up steps Jaguar (the new models being released are huge steps in the right direction) and the Italian Alfa Romeo. Part of the reason for the return of Alfa to the US is the exact scenario, they see an opening in the market where BMW once stood, the sporting/luxury niche with some flair.

I am a huge fan of the BMW product and understand the frustrations they have with being independent and not having the ability to reach economies of scale as others so easily can. I do not think branching out into niche markets and producing more cars is the answer. Porsche is a prime example of not needing to produce a lot of cars to make money, just making great cars and building in profit.

There is also the supply/demand factor with the current supply out reaching the demand cars will need to be discounted and thus killing the value of the brands used cars.... BMW needs to cut back or face serious repercussions.
All the more reaon to do Euro Delivery. By the way since they are increasing their prices and lowering residuals do you think they will at least lower their MF in the near future?
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2008, 06:32 PM   #49
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,331
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abcommercial View Post
Guys, this is not all bad news for current owners. I don't know who else here is into watches, but if you are you may realize that Rolex retains its value extremely well on the used-watch market, and one of the important reasons for this is that Rolex regularly increases their prices on new watches. This elevates the value/price on the used market. Likewise, the more expensive a new Beemer becomes, the more valuable the one you are already driving is.

Did u know the avg Rolex costs ~$150 to manufacturer?
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2008, 06:34 PM   #50
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,331
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
They did the same thing last year; so this is not new and there will be a mid year increase as well.

They are choosing to incrementally increase price point gradually than roll it all into one increase. This is b/c of fluctuating market conditions. The next increase will more than likely be increases in options and other items such as destination.

I am actually glad that these cars are becoming more expensive.... I had written an opinion piece back in June on this and some other factors and it is nice to see that BMW is finally seeing the light:

That is the next part of the problem, if they continue to sell cars in increasing numbers by watering down the brand will BMW still be a strong marquee? Will 10 year old Johnny still dream of driving his first BMW, or since there are so many BMWs (including a great supply of pre-owned) Johnny sees them as what everybody drives (like a Camry) and decides he wants something that drives almost as nice but also wants it to be different. Up steps Jaguar (the new models being released are huge steps in the right direction) and the Italian Alfa Romeo. Part of the reason for the return of Alfa to the US is the exact scenario, they see an opening in the market where BMW once stood, the sporting/luxury niche with some flair.

I am a huge fan of the BMW product and understand the frustrations they have with being independent and not having the ability to reach economies of scale as others so easily can. I do not think branching out into niche markets and producing more cars is the answer. Porsche is a prime example of not needing to produce a lot of cars to make money, just making great cars and building in profit.

There is also the supply/demand factor with the current supply out reaching the demand cars will need to be discounted and thus killing the value of the brands used cars.... BMW needs to cut back or face serious repercussions.

I disagree, in the past BMW offerred something that no one else could. That's not the case today. Infact, BMW has gone backwards in some cases.
Appreciate 0
      12-28-2008, 08:03 PM   #51
mapezzul
Special Agent
mapezzul's Avatar
United_States
26
Rep
1,737
Posts

 
Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
I disagree, in the past BMW offerred something that no one else could. That's not the case today. Infact, BMW has gone backwards in some cases.
Not sure what you mean
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2008, 12:07 PM   #52
cycler
Major General
cycler's Avatar
88
Rep
8,067
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 Streetglide and 2011 Dyna
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Long Island NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
Did u know the avg Rolex costs ~$150 to manufacturer?
Good thing I wear a Ulysee Nardin instead. Personally I think rolex's are way over rated. Ide rather wear a watch that not to many have knowledge about like my Nardin or even my Jaeger. A Ulysee Nardin has more jewels than a rolex....is better looking than a rolex.....and is older than rolex. The only thing rolex has on my watch or even an IWC is their marketing.
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2008, 01:37 PM   #53
nicknaz
Brigadier General
United_States
52
Rep
4,221
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 Z4 35i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cycler View Post
Ide rather wear a watch that not to many have knowledge about
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of an expensive watch? If not one knows about it, it isn't a good 'status symbol'... which is the sole purpose of a pricey watch, since its not like expensive watches keep time any better than a $150 seiko...

I'm more concerned about M badged trucks and no more high revving naturally aspirated M motors than $300 price increase. I hope BMW makes 'sport trucks' for the masses while still making true pure performance models for the lunatic fringe
Appreciate 0
      12-29-2008, 09:40 PM   #54
F32Fleet
BMWCCA since '03
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
5,331
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta (Vinings)

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Not sure what you mean

BMW used to sell a car that performed over and above the competition, but that's not the case today. It's becoming more a matter of style than anything else since the competition performs essentially the same at 60% which is probably where to the extent that most "luxury" cars are driven. On the other hand I guess it's not like Audi hasn't increased their prices too. I haven't worked the numbers, but I suspect BMW has raised their prices in excess of 5% over the past 18 months.

Last edited by F32Fleet; 12-31-2008 at 03:19 PM.
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2008, 05:59 AM   #55
Bruce Thompson
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

 
Drives: Lensar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ny

iTrader: (0)

Is it production rate?
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2008, 09:44 AM   #56
tsp533
New Member
United_States
0
Rep
14
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 e90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Arizona

iTrader: (0)

Reality as seen by a newbie....

Newly registered on this site, but not new to BMWs.

Hi all - Some interesting views posted here re. BMW's intent in raising 2009 prices, but i agree with those that suggest that BMW must regain its market position as a premium car for serious drivers. Let me explain:

Yesterday, while having another make of car serviced at an adjacent dealership, I wandered over to the BMW showroom. After some relatively easy negotiations I had purchased a 2008 335i sedan for about 11% under sticker price, with 100% 0.9% financing for five years on everything including taxes, license, fees, etc. I never even took out my checkbook. By the way, this car was not a stripper or a demo but a well equipped (premium, sport, nav and a bunch of other stuff) car, in a good color combo, with less than 30 miles on it.

While I'm pleased (to say the least) about my deal and my particular experience may not be typical, I'm concerned that these substantial discounts and financing incentives are having the effect of reducing the BMW brand cache from its former rarified status to that of a commodity brand competing in the same market pool as Subi's, Mazdas, etc.

When I bought a 540i in 2000, I had to order the car I wanted and received only a small discount from list, but I was completely happy. I experienced a certain sense of exclusivity (not trying to be a snob, but telling it like it is) and the belief that I could drive this fabulous car for a couple or three years and still receive a strong price at resale - Not so this time. The car is still fabulous, but resale will probably be proportionately much less than on the 540, and the discounts and incentives are indicative of a huge unsold inventory, at least in the southwest region of the USA.

I would love to see BMW return to the practice of shipping a few representative cars at the beginning of the model year and than taking the majority of sales as pre-orders or ed cars. I'm sure this would strengthen the brand name here in the USA and would certainly increase resale values. The car is still great, but economic conditions and unsustainable marketing strategies have conspired to "downscale" the brand,

I hope I haven't offended anyone with my two cents worth. Please remember that I'm a virgin on this site and go easy!

Thanks,

Patrick
Appreciate 0
      12-31-2008, 06:45 PM   #57
Quemoy
BMWPassion
Turkey
3
Rep
46
Posts

 
Drives: E36 316i Limo M Technik
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Türkiye - Bursa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
i think the pricese its very cheap very very cheap

In Turkey we pay for E92 M3 174.000 us dollar and we pay for 1 liter gas 1,75 us dolar
__________________
http://www.e90post.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=12835&dateline=134700  4941
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2009, 04:15 AM   #58
chonko
First Lieutenant
5
Rep
369
Posts

 
Drives: X6 50i/2008 X5 4.8i
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Undercover

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johndoe View Post
think the new BMWNA president is getting too anxious to make a name for himself.......with a stronger dollar (ie. weaker Euro), BMW is now getting back more Euros for the same US$70K M3 or say US$45K 3 series, but the exchange rate boom is not enough for BMW,....let's ALSO increase prices......

I understand the S Carolina plant dynamic but frankly 3 series is BMW's bread and butter and they are all imported in US...so BMW needs to get a bit less greedy when the overall economy is in the shit can......
I am sure quite a number of fan boys will disagree with you, but I think you are making a very good point.
The BMWNA dude does have a problem understanding the dynamics of the North American market in my opinion and is interested in presenting a more profitable division that will earn him a promotion.
I think his interpretation of the prevailing macro and micro economic conditions and his solution of raising prices could be counterproductive. In the period economic slowdown, basic raw materials essentially witness a price reduction as we are noticing now and that is one of the reasons why retailers reduce prices in recession.
Appreciate 0
      01-03-2009, 05:10 AM   #59
Cloud9blue
Lieutenant Colonel
Cloud9blue's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
1,611
Posts

 
Drives: avoiding the potholes
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Nazareno View Post
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of an expensive watch? If not one knows about it, it isn't a good 'status symbol'... which is the sole purpose of a pricey watch, since its not like expensive watches keep time any better than a $150 seiko...

I'm more concerned about M badged trucks and no more high revving naturally aspirated M motors than $300 price increase. I hope BMW makes 'sport trucks' for the masses while still making true pure performance models for the lunatic fringe
not every wears watches for the sake of showing off their wealth, just like not everyone buys car for the sake of showing off their wealth.
__________________
09 E92 335i AT: Monaco Blue / Saddle Brown / Grey Poplar
JB4 / BMS Flash / AE / DP/FMIC / TC Kline DA / M3/Megan / Wavetrac / Powerflex/Whiteline / Dinan OC / Aux. Radiator / Apex PS-7
07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic Slip-on / Ohlins
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST