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      12-28-2008, 02:32 AM   #1
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Dubbedoutbimmer - I've Been Scammed...

Regarding the sale of my used E92 front bumper (thread here) to E90Post member Dubbedoutbimmer (Mike, buyer)

I'll try to summarize the transaction as best I can.

* 10/17 - I send PayPal bill to buyer
* 10/23 - Buyer sends e-mail saying he will pay that night
* 10/25 - Buyer pays successfully with credit card
* 10/27 - I ship item via Greyhound PackageXpress
* 10/29 - PayPal places hold on funds due to a buyer bank reversal
* 10/29 - PayPal begins "investigating" the transaction

Many phone calls, e-mails, and PM's ensue to both buyer and PayPal.

PayPal needs to verify shipping by providing a tracking number. I provide Greyhound the tracking number. PayPal says that the tracking number is insufficient verification because Greyhound doesn't have a means of online tracking (Greyhound is phone tracking only). I verify with Greyhound over the phone that the item was received by and released to buyer. I give PayPal this information along with the Greyhound phone numbers. PayPal still claims this is insufficient proof that I shipped the item.

* 12/9 - PayPal finishes "investigating" and finds in favor of the buyer and releases the funds back to buyer (I contact buyer a few times while the "investigation" takes place. Buyer claims that PayPal won't let him recharge his credit card and release the money. Buyer also claims he told PayPal he has the item.)
* 12/10 - I call buyer, and he says he will repay either that night or the next day.

Many more phone calls, e-mails, and PM's ensue to buyer. Every single one is unanswered.

* 12/27 - I have neither sale money nor sale item, and my PayPal account sits negative the amount of the transaction.

I'm out of patience. There is no excuse for two months delay in repayment. Looks like my next step is legal recovery. Attorney will send a demand letter next week.

I'm curious...anyone know which state (buyer's or seller's) the suit is filed in this situation?

Thanks for reading.


Update 5/5:
I've recently been in touch with the buyer and hope to come to a quick amicable conclusion with this transaction. I will post another update with the outcome.


Update 5/29:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedoutbimmer View Post
and eric my account has no blemish's thats why I am confused as to where this money whent!!! and I BMW again today confirmed payment never returned..........we will get you taken care of but this killed my trust in paypal for sure.
I really don't understand how the PayPal money just vanished. Here is my history log for the entire transaction:



In chronological order:
* I sent bill 10/17
* Buyer paid 10/25
* I withdrew 10/25
* PayPal places hold on funds due to buyer's bank reversal 10/29
* PayPal releases hold to buyer 12/9
* I sent follow up bill 12/22 that goes unfulfilled
* I have to deposit funds to make balance zero on 1/7

The bold (arrowed) line is where you should have gotten your money back. Seems like a quick phone call to PayPal should remedy this.



Update 9/16:
Taken from http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302374

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhcoug2011 View Post
I don't know if you would be the most trustworthy person to do a review seeing that you have a -1 Itrader rating but that is just my honest opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubbedoutbimmer View Post
By all means we can discuss that, very simple I am paying twice for a bumper, since the seller says paypal took the money from him and they have no record of doing so. As soon as we have proof I have spoken to the seller and we have a understanding, I have proof I paid via my BMW credit card and he has no proof supporting that the money way withdrawn by pay pal.
if need be either party can have some local they trust present I have nothing to hide and I would not want negative publicity for my company. But thank you for your un-educated opinion
See my post above this one (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=44) for proof. Where's yours?

Also, what understanding do you and I have? When you contacted me last May to make good, you said you would pay "in a week or two." That was our only understanding, and then I didn't hear back from you again. I have the PM's if you've since deleted them and/or need a reminder.

Still no money from the buyer after almost a year.
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Last edited by ericsmc83; 12-16-2009 at 10:40 PM.
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      12-28-2008, 03:57 AM   #2
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damn, that sucks, sorry to hear about it and it sucks that we have to deal with this kind of people. good luck with recovering either your item or the money.
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      12-28-2008, 04:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsmc83 View Post

I'm curious...anyone know which state (buyer's or seller's) the suit is filed in this situation?

Thanks for reading.
Sorry to hear. Good luck with your retrieval of the money. I believe if you're the one filing the suit, the case should be settled in the seller's (you) state.
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      12-28-2008, 05:58 AM   #4
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I remember seeing him posting around in the forums.. he'll probably answer back soon.
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      12-28-2008, 11:32 AM   #5
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Sorry to hear. Good luck with your retrieval of the money. I believe if you're the one filing the suit, the case should be settled in the seller's (you) state.
+1 Should be settled in WA, the state where you reside
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      12-28-2008, 11:37 AM   #6
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I say we all call the guy and let him know what a piece of shit he is!!
508~498~9444
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      12-28-2008, 11:48 AM   #7
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He wanted to buy my wheels or coliover back then...
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      12-28-2008, 03:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mJ335 View Post
I remember seeing him posting around in the forums.. he'll probably answer back soon.
I hope so. It would be nice to get this settled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHD View Post
I say we all call the guy and let him know what a piece of shit he is!!
508~498~9444
I'd appreciate it if people didn't harass him. Thanks.
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      12-28-2008, 03:41 PM   #9
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Did you call your credit card company? Try calling Paypal again and ask to speak with the Supervisor.

If both of that doesn't work, I guess you will have to hire a attorney or take this to small claims court. Anyhow, good luck.
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      12-28-2008, 03:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsmc83 View Post
I hope so. It would be nice to get this settled.



I'd appreciate it if people didn't harass him. Thanks.
WTF!!!! THEN WHY U POSTING THIS THREAD!!!!

U want to make a thread of how he scammed you but you dont want to do anything about it!!! WOW.. your going to make it far in LIfe!!!!
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      12-28-2008, 04:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturbo335 View Post
Did you call your credit card company? Try calling Paypal again and ask to speak with the Supervisor.

If both of that doesn't work, I guess you will have to hire a attorney or take this to small claims court. Anyhow, good luck.
No luck with PayPal. I think all that's left is legal action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHD View Post
WTF!!!! THEN WHY U POSTING THIS THREAD!!!!

U want to make a thread of how he scammed you but you dont want to do anything about it!!! WOW.. your going to make it far in LIfe!!!!
I thought the point of this forum is to leave feedback for forum vendors and users alike. I'm posting my experience to make sure people are aware of this particular user's actions. Maybe this will prevent other users from going down the same path.

I'm not sure where I said I'm not doing anything about it. I think a demand letter followed by a possible small claims suit is about all I can do.
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      12-30-2008, 02:45 PM   #12
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Any updates?
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      12-30-2008, 03:50 PM   #13
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Thats why i dont buy anything unless its local from now on...I even dealt with someone who has a good reputation from out of state, which didnt go so great but at least he was good with his word...
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      12-30-2008, 03:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHD View Post
WTF!!!! THEN WHY U POSTING THIS THREAD!!!!

U want to make a thread of how he scammed you but you dont want to do anything about it!!! WOW.. your going to make it far in LIfe!!!!
haha... go vigilante on his ass!
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      12-30-2008, 04:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADHD View Post
WTF!!!! THEN WHY U POSTING THIS THREAD!!!!

U want to make a thread of how he scammed you but you dont want to do anything about it!!! WOW.. your going to make it far in LIfe!!!!
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      12-30-2008, 05:04 PM   #16
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This is what I have learned by being on this forum and selling items in the marketplace.

1. local is always best.
2. ingnore lowballers
3. always collect paypal funds first. Tell them item will not ship until funds have cleared.
4. I transfer funds out of my paypal account and into my checking account. this takes 2-3 business days
5. Once funds are clear, then I ship item via FedEx, UPS ONLY.
6. This is more expensive, but the only way to have secure tracking of the item.
7. I fully insure the item incase anything happens. I get my money.

8. I tell them all this before the transaction is finalized so that there is no surprise when they have to wait a couple of days for tracking info.
9. I take all of the above into account when setting up the thread describing my selling price/shipping cost.
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      12-30-2008, 08:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev View Post
Any updates?
Demand letter is being drafted. Might not go out until after the new year, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magmd View Post
This is what I have learned by being on this forum and selling items in the marketplace.

1. local is always best.
2. ingnore lowballers
3. always collect paypal funds first. Tell them item will not ship until funds have cleared.
4. I transfer funds out of my paypal account and into my checking account. this takes 2-3 business days
5. Once funds are clear, then I ship item via FedEx, UPS ONLY.
6. This is more expensive, but the only way to have secure tracking of the item.
7. I fully insure the item incase anything happens. I get my money.

8. I tell them all this before the transaction is finalized so that there is no surprise when they have to wait a couple of days for tracking info.
9. I take all of the above into account when setting up the thread describing my selling price/shipping cost.
Very good advice.

I was able to withdraw the funds into my bank account before the reversal, but I've since had to deposit it back to zero out my PayPal balance.

I went into the transaction knowing I wasn't covered by the PayPal seller's protection policy by shipping via Greyhound, but we were talking about $75 shipping instead of $400-$500 shipping going through UPS or FedEx for a $350 part. C'est la vie.
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      12-30-2008, 08:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsmc83 View Post
Demand letter is being drafted. Might not go out until after the new year, though.
Good luck with everything. You've got PM~
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      12-30-2008, 08:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magmd View Post
This is what I have learned by being on this forum and selling items in the marketplace.

1. local is always best.
2. ingnore lowballers
3. always collect paypal funds first. Tell them item will not ship until funds have cleared.
4. I transfer funds out of my paypal account and into my checking account. this takes 2-3 business days
5. Once funds are clear, then I ship item via FedEx, UPS ONLY.
6. This is more expensive, but the only way to have secure tracking of the item.
7. I fully insure the item incase anything happens. I get my money.

8. I tell them all this before the transaction is finalized so that there is no surprise when they have to wait a couple of days for tracking info.
9. I take all of the above into account when setting up the thread describing my selling price/shipping cost.
This would make a good stickey. I've sold 6-7 items on here (mostly smaller things), and I've never had a problem, however I usually don't wait for funds to clear....which I should be doing.

Magmd....you have a lot of hits on your "itrader", and I'm wondering if you usually ask the person you're dealing with to make a comment? or are they doing it on their own? just curious, since I only have a few hits, yet I've always gone the extra mile to make my buyers happy.
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      12-30-2008, 11:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magmd View Post
This is what I have learned by being on this forum and selling items in the marketplace.

1. local is always best.
2. ingnore lowballers
3. always collect paypal funds first. Tell them item will not ship until funds have cleared.
4. I transfer funds out of my paypal account and into my checking account. this takes 2-3 business days
5. Once funds are clear, then I ship item via FedEx, UPS ONLY.
6. This is more expensive, but the only way to have secure tracking of the item.
7. I fully insure the item incase anything happens. I get my money.

8. I tell them all this before the transaction is finalized so that there is no surprise when they have to wait a couple of days for tracking info.
9. I take all of the above into account when setting up the thread describing my selling price/shipping cost.
What is wrong with USPS? I usually ship USPS Priority with tracking and insurance.

Also to the OP, since you received your money back, why did you just cancel your paypal account? You clearly did not scam and paypal wasn't doing their job. If I were you, I would just take the money and leave. Make another paypal account under my GF or wife or friend or something.
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      12-30-2008, 11:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturbo335 View Post
What is wrong with USPS? I usually ship USPS Priority with tracking and insurance.

Also to the OP, since you received your money back, why did you just cancel your paypal account? You clearly did not scam and paypal wasn't doing their job. If I were you, I would just take the money and leave. Make another paypal account under my GF or wife or friend or something.
because they still have your info and will send you collection notices from their lawyers and such. i know this because i had an outstanding balance of $0.17 for about a year. never used it and i got a letter saying i owed them 17 cents...kinda gay but whatever.
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      12-31-2008, 12:07 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinturbo335 View Post
What is wrong with USPS? I usually ship USPS Priority with tracking and insurance.

Also to the OP, since you received your money back, why did you just cancel your paypal account? You clearly did not scam and paypal wasn't doing their job. If I were you, I would just take the money and leave. Make another paypal account under my GF or wife or friend or something.
I hate the USPS tracking. No real time updates. Several times....item has arrived and been delivered without a problem, but the system is still en route for days.

The rates are good, unless very heavy or odd shape.
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