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      01-21-2009, 12:34 PM   #1
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SS Brake Lines for the Middle of the Car? DIY Included!

Did you guys realize this?
I've been wondering about those who have changed their brake lines to the SS braided lines who have not felt the difference.
I think I found the reason why. Did you know that there are rubber lines in the middle of the car? I didn't!

We have rubber lines that connect the lines from underneath the car to the rear sub frame.
I added my Rotora calipers with SS lines a while back and I found a big difference with the brake feel, but I noticed that when driving on the track, sometimes the brakes feel a bit softer than other times.
I will bet that the main reason for this was due to the middle rubber lines taking all of the pressure build up.

Think about this for a second, with my case, the middle lines were now the only rubber lines in the car, so they were taking so much more pressure than when I had all other rubber lines installed.

Here comes ECS to the rescue! They are the reason that I found out about this.
ECS offers the middle lines in with their 6 line set, but they also offer the mid lines by themselves.
You can find them here:
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/...category=Lines

I would have loved to get the entire set, but unfortunately the lines do not fit the Rotora calipers.

The good news is that the middle lines will fit all 3 series cars.
I circled the mid lines (7) in the picture. I have already replaced the rear lines (11) in the picture since these are the lines that connect directly to the rear calipers.

I just got the mid lines yesterday, and once I install these lines, there will be nowhere for the lines to expand, and all pressure will go to where it counts--to the calipers!

Thanks again to James at ECS for the great customer service!

DIY is on post #17!
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      01-21-2009, 02:20 PM   #2
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ha ha nice. Great attention to detail. BBK FTW!
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      01-21-2009, 03:49 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ///MiroslavE92 View Post
ha ha nice. Great attention to detail. BBK FTW!
The good thing about these lines though, is that they fit with the OEM calipers.
The pedal response will feel so much better with all 6 lines being replaced.
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      01-21-2009, 09:22 PM   #4
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I've got an Alcon front BBK inbound, so that will fix my front lines. So I just need the mids and rears for the stock rear calipers?

Well hell, just another thing to add to the upgrade list.....
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      01-22-2009, 01:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Did you guys realize this?
I've been wondering about those who have changed their brake lines to the SS braided lines who have not felt the difference.
I think I found the reason why. Did you know that there are rubber lines in the middle of the car? I didn't!

We have rubber lines that connect the lines from underneath the car to the rear sub frame.
I added my Rotora calipers with SS lines a while back and I found a big difference with the brake feel, but I noticed that when driving on the track, sometimes the brakes feel a bit softer than other times.
I will bet that the main reason for this was due to the middle rubber lines taking all of the pressure build up.

Think about this for a second, with my case, the middle lines were now the only rubber lines in the car, so they were taking so much more pressure than when I had all other rubber lines installed.

Here comes ECS to the rescue! They are the reason that I found out about this.
ECS offers the middle lines in with their 6 line set, but they also offer the mid lines by themselves.
You can find them here:
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edpd/...category=Lines

I would have loved to get the entire set, but unfortunately the lines do not fit the Rotora calipers.

The good news is that the middle lines will fit all 3 series cars.
I circled the mid lines (7) in the picture. I have already replaced the rear lines (11) in the picture since these are the lines that connect directly to the rear calipers.

I just got the mid lines yesterday, and once I install these lines, there will be nowhere for the lines to expand, and all pressure will go to where it counts--to the calipers!

Thanks again to James at ECS for the great customer service!

You know, replacing the body to subframe lines won't really get you better pedal feel, at least not something you will notice. If you still have the stock front and rear brakes, you have more components that can cause unwanted flex or undesirable pedal feel.

These lines may be a good upgrade for someone already running both front and rear BBK's.

Last edited by HP Autosport; 01-22-2009 at 02:14 AM.
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      01-22-2009, 10:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autowerks View Post
You know, replacing the body to subframe lines won't really get you better pedal feel, at least not something you will notice. If you still have the stock front and rear brakes, you have more components that can cause unwanted flex or undesirable pedal feel.

These lines may be a good upgrade for someone already running both front and rear BBK's.
Of course you won't get better feel by only replacing the mid lines.
This wasn't my point.
What I'm saying is that most people (I believe) do not know about these mid lines.

Whether they upgrade to a BBK or they replace their SS lines, they do not know about the mid lines.
Most companies out there only sell the front and rear lines (4 line set), and either forgetting about the mid lines or they themselves don't even know about the mid lines.

People that upgrade their front and rear lines with SS lines that do not upgrade the mid lines doesn't make sense since there are still the mid rubber lines that are expanding under pressure.
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      01-22-2009, 10:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Of course you won't get better feel by only replacing the mid lines.
This wasn't my point.
What I'm saying is that most people (I believe) do not know about these mid lines.

Whether they upgrade to a BBK or they replace their SS lines, they do not know about the mid lines.
Most companies out there only sell the front and rear lines (4 line set), and either forgetting about the mid lines or they themselves don't even know about the mid lines.

People that upgrade their lines with SS lines that do not upgrade the mid lines doesn't make sense since there are still the rubber lines that are expanding under pressure.
Expending under pressure and pedal feel/response, it's almost related!

I guess you could be right about most people don't know about it...I am sure they have seen it while doing a Quaife, BBK upgrade, rear guide rods, subframe bushings or rear anti-roll bar installation.

There is almost always a rubber line from body to rear subframe or from body to real axle(especially on a solid axle car).

I don't think any of the BBK manufactures forgot about the lines, but rather just not produce and include them in the kit because these two lines can be a PIA to install for a DIY and it adds one extra step in their instructions, which does not exist in other models(re-write the whole instruction booklet!).

There is, however, one BBK manufacture that I know include all 6 lines in their BBK.
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      01-22-2009, 10:33 AM   #8
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Interesting.
I looked under the car and it seems like it wouldn't be that hard.
When I change mine, I'll be sure to write up a little DIY.
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      01-22-2009, 12:46 PM   #9
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good info! The only complaint I have regarding my brakes is the soft-ish feel. Other than that, they work well. Also, I like how these SS lines are covered with a vinyl sleeve so dirt can't get underneath the SS weave (which can cause a failure).
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      01-22-2009, 01:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Interesting.
I looked under the car and it seems like it wouldn't be that hard.
When I change mine, I'll be sure to write up a little DIY.
Oh, I thought you have done them already!

Give yourself plenty of time on this one, it's not as easy as it looks!
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      01-22-2009, 04:15 PM   #11
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Just have OEM calipers but new discs/pads. Was looking into changing lines, but didn't know about the mid lines. Good one! Typically, how much to change all 6 lines??

I think new lines and fluid (BTW what fluid is recommend or are you using?) would be an excellent improvement. Performance braking gains is equivalent to performance acceleration on the track, agree?
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      01-22-2009, 04:50 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cgnahc View Post
Just have OEM calipers but new discs/pads. Was looking into changing lines, but didn't know about the mid lines. Good one! Typically, how much to change all 6 lines??

I think new lines and fluid (BTW what fluid is recommend or are you using?) would be an excellent improvement. Performance braking gains is equivalent to performance acceleration on the track, agree?
I was using Motul 600, but in all honesty, I like the feal of the BMW fluid much better.
This is why I ordered a couple liters of BMW fluid along with the mid lines.
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      01-22-2009, 05:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I was using Motul 600, but in all honesty, I like the feal of the BMW fluid much better.
This is why I ordered a couple liters of BMW fluid along with the mid lines.
Yeah the 600 might not be best for daily driving...have you tried the Motul DOT 5.1? Just a suggestion...
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      01-22-2009, 08:10 PM   #14
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How are you not boiling the BMW fluid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
I was using Motul 600, but in all honesty, I like the feal of the BMW fluid much better.
This is why I ordered a couple liters of BMW fluid along with the mid lines.
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      01-22-2009, 09:01 PM   #15
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How are you not boiling the BMW fluid?
Titanium shims.
The BMW fluid is a pretty high boiling point as well.
It's a lot better fluid than people give credit.
446 F isn't too shabby.
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      01-23-2009, 10:01 PM   #16
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I installed these today, and it's not that hard at all.
I'll post a DIY later on with pictures.
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      01-25-2009, 12:08 AM   #17
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As promised, here's the DIY:

1. Jack up the driverís side rear and support it with jack stands.



2. Take off the rear driverís side tire. You will see the brake lines by the rear subframe and the 11mm nuts that you will need to loosen.


3. Get a pan or bowl to catch the brake fluid. Put it under the lines.


4. Loosen the line closest to the outside of the car first. Once you get outside line loosened, it will be easier to loosen the inner line since you will create more room.



5. Once you have both lines loosened, get underneath the car and loosen the lower inner line.



6. Replace the inner line first, and start working backwards. I tightened the lower bolt first and then tightened the upper bolt second. Make sure that both bolts are tightened enough. I donít know the torque settings but I honestly donít think it matters if you have them. Good luck getting a torque wrench in this space!

7. This is just to compare the lines. (Comparison)


8. Now, do the same with the outer line. Tighten the lower bolt first, and then tighten the upper bolt.

9. Once all of the bolts are tightened, clean up all the fluid. I used brake cleaner. I sprayed the lines down and cleaned it up quickly with paper towels. MAKE SURE NO BRAKE FLUID OR BRAKE CLEANER GETS ON THE PAINT OF YOUR CAR. IT WILL DESTROY THE PAINT!

10. I left the wheel off of the car since I was going to bleed the brakes anyway, but of course, put the wheel back on eventually.
11. Once everything is cleaned up, you can start bleeding the brakes in this order:
a. Right Rear
b. Left Rear
c. Right Front
d. Left Front
12. When bleeding the brakes, make sure your master cylinder doesnít get completely drained. Keep filling it up as you are bleeding the brakes.
13. I used BMW high performance brake fluid. IMO, this is the best feeling brake fluid. Iíve used Motul 600 with the past 2 flushes, and for some reason, Iíve had better brake feel with BMW fluid The temperature range isnít that bad either.



14. Enjoy your new SS mid lines!
Thanks a bunch to ECS for making these lines. They are great quality!!




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      01-25-2009, 12:46 AM   #18
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Awesome Mr. 5! I'm ordering these lines to go along with my STaSIS/Alcon kit that is showing up next week. I may just have a local shop install it all due to space limitations (I have no space in my garage to work on cars......) I do have a friend who has a lift in his garage though. Hmmmmm....

How long did it take you, "lug bolt to lug bolt"?
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      01-25-2009, 12:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by scollins View Post
Awesome Mr. 5! I'm ordering these lines to go along with my STaSIS/Alcon kit that is showing up next week. I may just have a local shop install it all due to space limitations (I have no space in my garage to work on cars......) I do have a friend who has a lift in his garage though. Hmmmmm....

How long did it take you, "lug bolt to lug bolt"?
It took me a little over 2 hours and that incuded bleeding the lines.
It's really not that bad.
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      01-25-2009, 02:30 AM   #20
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Can you feel a difference Mr.5?
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      01-25-2009, 12:43 PM   #21
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Can you feel a difference Mr.5?
I definitely feel a difference but I believe that's from going from the Motul to the BMW fluid.
I'll tell you after I go to the track.
This is where I believe the real difference will shine.
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      01-25-2009, 10:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
Titanium shims.
The BMW fluid is a pretty high boiling point as well.
It's a lot better fluid than people give credit.
446 F isn't too shabby.

Really? I boil the BMW fluid very quickly. I can't imagine shims doing that much to offset temps. Nice DIY BTW.
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