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      06-02-2006, 03:20 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by canucklion
I thought dentists were like chiropractors and PhD's? i.e. not real doctors
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      06-02-2006, 03:32 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiraiwaRiku
wow... what can I say?

you are a moron
wow. i don't know what to say. have you read this thread from the beginning?
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      06-02-2006, 03:35 PM   #113
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ShiraiwaRiku, please calm down with your last few remarks, rchanou's comments were made in jest, don't start unecessary name-calling when none is warranted.
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      06-02-2006, 03:37 PM   #114
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Ok first off, i'd like to say its nice to see everyone interested in the issue because it shows how tight of a community we actually have....!

Anyways, back to the issue at hand, the way I see this is that its sort of a no fault situation, its just a thing were noone is really wrong and hopefully the issue can be resolved between longtran and eisenhaus on a personal level.

I would read this thread and make a decision on what to think of an exhaust or any other product on a personal level, without making judgements on other e90post members character or motives.

Please remember this is an issue about longtran's exhaust, please dont make personal attacks on each other, etc etc...

Thanks!!!
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      06-02-2006, 04:18 PM   #115
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Mark, well said. Michael, eloquent as usual. rchanou, I like the comic interjections.

*dodges flying rotten tomatoes*
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      06-02-2006, 04:22 PM   #116
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Thanks for the heads up foo.
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      06-02-2006, 04:31 PM   #117
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ryan and chitown, doesnt make sense why you guys are saying i am blackmailing eisenhaus? should i be quiet and suck it up?? let the other e90ers buy their exhaust? it wasnt like i didnt give them a chance to fix the problem. the damage is done now. i think i was more than fair here.
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      06-02-2006, 04:32 PM   #118
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Notes from EisenHaus

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3
Ok first off, i'd like to say its nice to see everyone interested in the issue because it shows how tight of a community we actually have....!

Anyways, back to the issue at hand, the way I see this is that its sort of a no fault situation, its just a thing were noone is really wrong and hopefully the issue can be resolved between longtran and eisenhaus on a personal level.

I would read this thread and make a decision on what to think of an exhaust or any other product on a personal level, without making judgements on other e90post members character or motives.

Please remember this is an issue about longtran's exhaust, please dont make personal attacks on each other, etc etc...

Thanks!!!

Dear Mark and E90post Members,

This is John @ eisenhaus.
If you would allow, I would like to chime in here for a second, folks.

First of all, we do sincerely apologize for any lack of customer service if there was any on our end.
Secondly, we do feel extremely unfortunate such thread had to break out to public, and again, as be half of eisenhaus company, I do apologize for this incident.
Also thank you for bringing this issue to our attention and for helping us better serve you.
We will further strive to improve our product quality as well as customer service.


Dear Mr.Long,
Since you have brought this out to Public, and even though there are many issues, details and things that can be counter-said from our side to rectify the situation, we would not proceed further because we simply have no intention to bad mouth our customers including bad and ugly ones :-)
It really does not matter who is right or wrong for us at this time, since as someone already mentioned, the damage is done as you have intended. You've got a brand new product from us at a good discount (since you got one of the first batch for U.S market), with your own words promising to promote eisenmann products attending many different shows, but surprisingly you have specifically asked for larger amount discount after the product delivery and oddly enough you are putting negative comments on our company, product, service and threatening our reputations to the public right after you've realized that you can not further get it.
Long, I will keep this short and clear. If you want more discount. Sorry, as stated before, we simply cannot offer you more. As a reputable company, we have a certain company rule to follow for other customers & dealers and we did have sponsored you accordingly. You were given several chances to return your unit back to us if you are not satisfy with unit, so we can replace your unit with other possibly better? ones, but you did not want to take that route due to your personal reasons. So, What do you want from Eisennhaus specifically? I remember asking you the very same question yesterday over the phone as per customer service/ but you simply said, “This conversation is not going anywhere” and hung up on me. We would have no reason to upset a "popular and reputable" board member to hurt our own business, but in this case, we would not want to deal with any further drudgery negotiation simply because we are left with no choice. If you want to further discuss this matter or resolve this issue, you can give us a call directly. Without a question, we will do our very best to accommodate your needs.
We are here: Mon - Fri (9AM - 7PM Central time) Thank you.
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      06-02-2006, 04:37 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphall
Mark, well said. Michael, eloquent as usual. rchanou, I like the comic interjections.

*dodges flying rotten tomatoes*

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      06-02-2006, 04:43 PM   #120
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Well, I tried to think of something non-flammatory / intelligent to say. It was the best I could do. I got nuthin'.

But to be serious, I think both sides have been laid out with a few questions that may need to be answered. As quoted from Under Siege 2: Dark Territory, "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups".

We're all here to read, be educated, share our thoughts, opinions, and experiences. Hopefully, not here to put down or defame another.

*gets off soap box... soaked in tomato juice*
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      06-02-2006, 04:47 PM   #121
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Thanks for coming on here John. I hope that you understand many of us appreciate the support of our community. Overall, this has been a sad thread. On one hand it is important for us to know when a product isn't quite up to par. On the other hand we were not told the whole story and that ended up leading to misrepresentation of a company.

Overall, I have to say, I am very dissappointed in Long and they way everything has been dealt with.
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      06-02-2006, 04:47 PM   #122
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Sounds as if this needs serious mediation to solve this issue. Hopefully we can all return to doing what we "Ultimately" love best, our BMW's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was definitely a learning experience for me.
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      06-02-2006, 05:01 PM   #123
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What I can't understand is Eisenhaus throwing so much static back at their "test mule" over $150 worth of overpriced bent pipe. Just make the shit right and quit the belly-aching.

I for one don't see the blackmail. If I'd made significant modifications to body work to install your exhuast, retail customer or test mule, I'd want the exhaust to stay on till you sent me a new one. Nowhere do I see Long saying, 'give me all my money back and I'm keeping the exhaust.' I see him saying, 'my car's all hacked up, give me a unit that fits right because I plan to stick with quad now, or pay to put my car back the way it was before you gave me this crappy test rig.' Which I'd expect from any manufacturer if I was their ginuea pig.

The more I think about it, the madder I get. Why is Eisenhaus even questioning any of this crap? First words out of their mouth should've been, "We'll ship you out a new one tomorrow." Case closed, blackmail or no. Hell, if your test installer isn't happy, WTF are you going to do about your retail customers?!? If the crap doesn't fit right do you want to deal with one unhappy customer now or a 100 later?

Lets keep this perspective, it's a couple hundred bucks of bent pipe that they sell at an extreme profit. It's mass manufactured. It isn't a precious irreplacable diamond.

If he wants to keep the crappy test rig, fine. If he wants his money back that he paid for the crappy test rig, again fine. Sorry it didn't work out, let us know if you get it all fixed and what we can do to improve the product. What's a smarter business decision? Make the test mule happy over a couple of hundred bucks in shiny pipe, or create lots of drama that potentially looses you business?

Seems like a no-brainer there.
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      06-02-2006, 05:04 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RYANM330CI
Dear Mark and E90post Members,

This is John @ eisenhaus.
If you would allow, I would like to chime in here for a second, folks.

First of all, we do sincerely apologize for any lack of customer service if there was any on our end.
Secondly, we do feel extremely unfortunate such thread had to break out to public, and again, as be half of eisenhaus company, I do apologize for this incident.
Also thank you for bringing this issue to our attention and for helping us better serve you.
We will further strive to improve our product quality as well as customer service.


Dear Mr.Long,
Since you have brought this out to Public, and even though there are many issues, details and things that can be counter-said from our side to rectify the situation, we would not proceed further because we simply have no intention to bad mouth our customers including bad and ugly ones :-)
It really does not matter who is right or wrong for us at this time, since as someone already mentioned, the damage is done as you have intended. You've got a brand new product from us at a good discount (since you got one of the first batch for U.S market), with your own words promising to promote eisenmann products attending many different shows, but surprisingly you have specifically asked for larger amount discount after the product delivery and oddly enough you are putting negative comments on our company, product, service and threatening our reputations to the public right after you've realized that you can not further get it.
Long, I will keep this short and clear. If you want more discount. Sorry, as stated before, we simply cannot offer you more. As a reputable company, we have a certain company rule to follow for other customers & dealers and we did have sponsored you accordingly. You were given several chances to return your unit back to us if you are not satisfy with unit, so we can replace your unit with other possibly better? ones, but you did not want to take that route due to your personal reasons. So, What do you want from Eisennhaus specifically? I remember asking you the very same question yesterday over the phone as per customer service/ but you simply said, “This conversation is not going anywhere” and hung up on me. We would have no reason to upset a "popular and reputable" board member to hurt our own business, but in this case, we would not want to deal with any further drudgery negotiation simply because we are left with no choice. If you want to further discuss this matter or resolve this issue, you can give us a call directly. Without a question, we will do our very best to accommodate your needs.
We are here: Mon - Fri (9AM - 7PM Central time) Thank you.
you ask me to call and i did. you werent there again. nothing new here...
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      06-02-2006, 05:06 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtran
you ask me to call and i did. nothing new here... you werent there again.
call in 30mins, John will be here.
also, there are plenty other guys who can help you right here, right now.
Tony just answered your call.
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      06-02-2006, 05:06 PM   #126
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I have been a member on this forum for over a year and I have also read over this whole thread. There are two parts to this story.

Long bought a prototype model - he got a discount knowing it was not 100% being the first exhaust out.

Eisenhaus supplied the exhaust at a reduced price because they also knew it was a prototype model and wouldn't be 100%.

The problem with supplying a product like this, is you do not have control over the installation of the product, and that leads to inablility to provide what the customer may think they want.

From longs perspective: He wants things fixed. It will cost him $200 *his estimate* to take the exhaust off and ship it to them, and then he will have to drive around with a big hole in his bumper for however long. He believes he can fix the exhaust himself for the $200 - and therefor would not like to ship it back, but would like the extra money given to him by eisenhaus.

Eisenhaus sees the situation differently. From their perspective, they gave him a discount - and have no idea how the installation was carried out. They cannot rely on his installation. He is not a certified mufler installer, and although he is pretty damn good - they do not know it for certain. So, they offer to replace or refund the product - which is reasonable from their side.

The problem comes up, that it is not reasonable from either side. Long wants money, as that is clearly the easiest thing to do...but no company warranties their products by giving money to customers (if they did, they would all go bankcrupt)

The real issue is long got the discounted price, knowing that the exhaust would ba a prototype. In my oppinion, he should just fix it himself (which he claims to be able to do) and move on. He already has been compensated by way of his initial discount, so asking for MORE money back is pushing the bar.
If he paid full price, it would be another story - but that is clearly not the case.

Sorry long. That is my 2c. :-)

I hope Eisenhauses reputation doesn't get too badly damaged from this ordeal. It's actually not their fault entirely. It was a difficult sitation.
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      06-02-2006, 05:12 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken1
I have been a member on this forum for over a year and I have also read over this whole thread. There are two parts to this story.

Long bought a prototype model - he got a discount knowing it was not 100% being the first exhaust out.

Eisenhaus supplied the exhaust at a reduced price because they also knew it was a prototype model and wouldn't be 100%.

The problem with supplying a product like this, is you do not have control over the installation of the product, and that leads to inablility to provide what the customer may think they want.

From longs perspective: He wants things fixed. It will cost him $200 *his estimate* to take the exhaust off and ship it to them, and then he will have to drive around with a big hole in his bumper for however long. He believes he can fix the exhaust himself for the $200 - and therefor would not like to ship it back, but would like the extra money given to him by eisenhaus.

Eisenhaus sees the situation differently. From their perspective, they gave him a discount - and have no idea how the installation was carried out. They cannot rely on his installation. He is not a certified mufler installer, and although he is pretty damn good - they do not know it for certain. So, they offer to replace or refund the product - which is reasonable from their side.

The problem comes up, that it is not reasonable from either side. Long wants money, as that is clearly the easiest thing to do...but no company warranties their products by giving money to customers (if they did, they would all go bankcrupt)

The real issue is long got the discounted price, knowing that the exhaust would ba a prototype. In my oppinion, he should just fix it himself (which he claims to be able to do) and move on. He already has been compensated by way of his initial discount, so asking for MORE money back is pushing the bar.
If he paid full price, it would be another story - but that is clearly not the case.

Sorry long. That is my 2c. :-)

I hope Eisenhauses reputation doesn't get too badly damaged from this ordeal. It's actually not their fault entirely. It was a difficult sitation.
broken1, i see your point. my discount was given to me so i can promote their product. how can i promote a product that cost more money to get right? plus the one i got is not a prototype. its a production piece. john stated to me yesterday that he sold over 50 of these all over the world and no one complain but me. this one is the prototype.

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      06-02-2006, 05:13 PM   #128
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Whenever I called Ryan gave me great service
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      06-02-2006, 05:17 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtran
broken1, i see your point. my discount was given to me so i can promote their product. how can i promote a product that cost more money to get right? plus the one i got is not a prototype. its a production piece. john stated to me yesterday that he sold over 50 of these all over the world and no one complain but me. this one is the prototype.

I in no way disagree with this thread. These boards are full of problems with the E90, that's what forums are for....sharing problems.

I was just trying to give two sides to it.

Here is a question for you....what solution would YOU reccomend, considering they do not want to give you money back? What are your concerns with the exhaust system NOW?

I really think this can be sorted out to get everyone kindof happy.

Edited to add: My first post here was not entirely correct. I didn't realise you were given the discount as a promotional thing, and that is was a production version of the exhaust.
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      06-02-2006, 05:18 PM   #130
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here is my point of view, for what its worth probably not much

Long
-is only in fault if he had intention of blackmail... not if he just intended to let our community know an experience he had and give us a heads up (there is no way we will knwo the 'truth' to this)
-Long you've helped me countless times and i thank you for that very much
-knowing you were ondering a pre-production piece there should be a minor kink or two expected, they havent had the experience of sellign this piece to anyone yet
Eisenhaus
-ryan you seem like a great guy, and i doubt a company would let you speak slander about anyone without you getting in some shit at your job
-there is no excuse whatsoever for a 3 week wait
-it is not fair that this is hurting your business unless it is deserved


my idea, write some form of contract and eisenhaus should send you the new exhaust, free of cost, you get yours removed, install the new one, and send back the old. that way it avoids all problems about holes and what not
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      06-02-2006, 05:19 PM   #131
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another thing broken1, i never said i can fix it myself. i said i can get it fix here. instead of going through the hassle of shipping. if i can do it myself i would and wouldnt have said anything. i just dont like the fact that i am putting out more money for something i should have got right the first time.
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      06-02-2006, 05:24 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longtran
another thing broken1, i never said i can fix it myself. i said i can get it fix here. instead of going through the hassle of shipping. if i can do it myself i would and wouldnt have said anything. i just dont like the fact that i am putting out more money for something i should have got right the first time.
Indeed. My point was it was going to cost you around $200 to fix it or get it fixed.

Would you be happy if they sent you a new exhaust, only condition being that you must return your exhaust after your new one has been installed?

I think the biggest problem aside from the exhaust not sitting properly is that it flows out more the one side than the other? I think that is just a design problem (probably due to the fact they don't want to affect performance by reducing back pressure) in the exhaust - and no matter how many eisenmann quads you get, they'll all do the same thing
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