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      06-03-2006, 12:49 PM   #177
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I agree with that
Companies should consider every possible avenue in pleasing their customers, to bar consumers from expressing their feelings towards companies is indeed absurd. I do hope that Long and Eisemann can work out a term that is agreeable to both parties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawks
Whoever posted that "you shouldn't be bad-mouthing companies" - and why can't we? Is that considered slander/libel? Should we sympathize for companies and never badmouth them because they may very well lose business? Absurd.
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      06-03-2006, 12:55 PM   #178
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I agree with and respect Long for waiting 3 weeks before posting on here. Thats probably one main reason why I haven't made my judgement on who is right or wrong yet.

Still, I think it should get resolved, and then we should decide. I'm sure it will be resolved soon, and that both parties can come up with an agreeable solution. I am not concerned about this issue as much as I am concerned about what the dissention it can cause.

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Originally Posted by diesel007
. Sensible...don't know about that. No I am not trying to hate but it's like this:

If a company wants to represent themselves by introducing a new Breakthrough mod to the e90 community it is their responsibility to make that product perfect right? Whether he got a discount or got a free bee that’s beside the point, the customer and in this case "partial representative" of the company was unhappy for 3 weeks with no result. Many of U would have not allotted that much time for them to correct their mistake. He gave them for warning and they dropped the ball, it's not acceptable.
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      06-03-2006, 01:01 PM   #179
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Neither side has made the situation easy.

To say that long was trying to "blackmail" Eisenhaus seems to be an exaggeration. To me it seems like Long simply stated that he would go to the boards about this situation if it did not resolve itself in a reasonable amount of time. Three weeks is a long period of time. No customer should have to wait that long. How much money did Long want?

So does not getting the exhaust installed at a muffler shop void warranty?
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      06-03-2006, 01:02 PM   #180
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I completely agree. Thats why its so important we don't let this become a long vs. company issue. One way to avoid this situation is to get other customers feedback on Eisenhaus as well. They can post here if they wish: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...143#post305143

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Originally Posted by aphall
IMO, I think the issue is not LONG versus Company. It's CUSTOMER versus Company. A popularity contest? C'mon fellas....
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      06-03-2006, 01:15 PM   #181
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That took a while to read!

This is just a bad situation.

If I'm in Long's shoes, I'd be pissed. If I'm Eisenhauss shoes, I'd be pissed.
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      06-03-2006, 01:34 PM   #182
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So was this muffler a prototype or not? If it was and Long purchased it knowing this, shouldn’t he be prepared to deal with all the potential issues? Basically, you’re asking for it when you bought it. It reminds me of people that volunteer themselves to clinical trials. Companies give you free meds or at reduced cost, but you have to be prepared for the negative side affects (with disclaimers signed in blood of course). If this was the finished product, then please disregard my comments.

I don’t see a cordial resolution to this matter anymore since neither party is replying to this post. Is Eisenhaus technically liable or further obligated to Long? No, not after this post. Is Esienhaus rep tarnished? Possibly. I think both parties deserve their fate.
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      06-03-2006, 01:56 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Bimmer
That took a while to read!

This is just a bad situation.

If I'm in Long's shoes, I'd be pissed. If I'm Eisenhauss shoes, I'd be pissed.
That's my feeling too.

Long approached Eisenhaus to ask for a deal, in exchange for him whoring their new wares to his friends. When Eisenhaus realized they might make out OK on the deal (they would not have done it for no reason other than that), they agreed to give Long first crack at the new product and to have him praise it online and to his local friends. Face it, Long is an entrepreneur. It has its good and bad sides.

Long had problems and contacted Eisenhaus to try to get them resolved. Long would only accept one resolution though... to get another $200 or so sent back to him, or he wouldn’t be able to uphold his part of the bargain regarding singing praises to the masses, and might even go to those same people to tell them the product sucks. I can see how he would think this is fair because of his additional costs. I can also think it would definitely be viewed as blackmail from the other end.

Eisenhaus (after far too long of a period) offers to replace the exhaust with another, which is totally fair in my mind, but was NOT the exact resolution Long wanted. So, in retaliation for not getting exactly what he wanted, Long took to the boards. This would be viewed by Eisenhaus as Long following through with what they were viewing as blackmail.

The only thing Eisenhaus did wrong was to wait too long to offer the right resolution. What sucks for them is that if they hadn't (nicely) agreed to the Long deal to begin with, he'd just be a normal customer and the exhaust should have just been returned. Period.

IMO, Long should just take the replacement exhaust, and should neither extoll nor slander Eisenhaus. Cut the ties, and be done with it.
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      06-03-2006, 02:10 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTown
I see that alot of the people supporting long are from cali. I'm sure he's your friend and you've probly met him, or hang with him, and I'm sure you like him.
As for the rest of that are looking up at him,
No doubt he's done alot of good things around here, and has been very innovative, becoming the self appointed DIY king, but it doesn't change the fact that he basically admits to blackmailing Eisenhaus and used e90post and his "status"as the threat
Wow, i think your from Chicago right?
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      06-03-2006, 02:43 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucklion
It seems that there are two types of posters emerging on this topic. 1) Long's supporter and 2) other people trying to decide what is going on by listening to both sides.
thats just retarded. so whoever sides for long automatically becomes "long's support" or "long's fanclub member"?

There are alot of stupid generalizations in this thread. More pathetic than this whole issue.
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      06-03-2006, 03:52 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
whoa this thread has turned into... a huge.. thing.
but uh. I love how companies just say "send it back". Its F**king ridiculous. Especially for something big. "Send it back, we'll take a look at it". well if its the product that went sour, then they should cover every single fee related to it.
I'll second that. I'll NOT buy any product from a company that think "send it back and we'll give you a full refund" is a reasonable offer. To me that's a f**king ridiculous offer, especially you're talking about something like an exhaust that will cost the customer to take it off and weld back the original one. At the very *least* the company should pay for shipping for both ways and the cost to put back the original muffer.

If you get food poisoning after eating a burger and ended up costing you $200 to see the doctor, will you be happy if the resturant think a full refund of the burger is good enough? What will you feel if the resturant call you 'blackmailing' when you are merely asking them to compensate for the extra cost incurred to you by their mistake?
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      06-03-2006, 04:31 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbq
I'll second that. I'll NOT buy any product from a company that think "send it back and we'll give you a full refund" is a reasonable offer. To me that's a f**king ridiculous offer, especially you're talking about something like an exhaust that will cost the customer to take it off and weld back the original one. At the very *least* the company should pay for shipping for both ways and the cost to put back the original muffer.

If you get food poisoning after eating a burger and ended up costing you $200 to see the doctor, will you be happy if the resturant think a full refund of the burger is good enough? What will you feel if the resturant call you 'blackmailing' when you are merely asking them to compensate for the extra cost incurred to you by their mistake?
that's a very good analogy. very well put.
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      06-03-2006, 05:22 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hknite
that's a very good analogy. very well put.
I don't think so at all.

To take that analogy and twist it to this real scenario, you would have gone into the restaurant and talked to the owner to get the meal at a discount, and promised that you'll tell your friends the the place is awesome.

You get your discounted meal, and it's not quite what you were looking for, but you still want to finish it yet get more money off of the cost of the meal, even though a new meal was offered.
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      06-03-2006, 08:21 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbq
I'll second that. I'll NOT buy any product from a company that think "send it back and we'll give you a full refund" is a reasonable offer. To me that's a f**king ridiculous offer, especially you're talking about something like an exhaust that will cost the customer to take it off and weld back the original one. At the very *least* the company should pay for shipping for both ways and the cost to put back the original muffer.

If you get food poisoning after eating a burger and ended up costing you $200 to see the doctor, will you be happy if the resturant think a full refund of the burger is good enough? What will you feel if the resturant call you 'blackmailing' when you are merely asking them to compensate for the extra cost incurred to you by their mistake?
IM 3RD on that! Very well put! I cant even believe some of u people!
This thread has gone to complete shit to defaming character etc. when all it was is a customer Unhappy with a product and he let others know he felt!
THeres nothing wrong with that at all..I would and have done the same..
If im not happy with a product I let all my friends know NOT to buy it, and im sure you all do the same too.
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      06-03-2006, 09:24 PM   #190
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Message to ChiTown

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTown
All you people chiming in saying how you're " with long" just don't get it....
I have no doubt that your hero longtran used his popularity around here to try and muscle some money out of them. He didn't go about things in a honorable way. Period.I'm not trying to say that Eisenhaus was perfect in this situation, but from what I know, I can't blame them for this
....I feel I've been around here and contributed enough to earn a little respect, yet most of you still don't listen and love to just slam Ryan for whatever.
...Everyone EXCEPT longtran around here who has an eisennman system loves it, it just so happens that longtran is the self-appointed DIY "king", and has alot of groupies, so you all listen more to him. Fine. Be sheep....You think that just because you buy some $35,000 car the world owes you something, or that people who drive BMW's won't be shady because they must be successful stand-up people... It seems most of you have clearly made up your mind, not paying attention to the real issues here.
Now you've gone from going after Long's character to making disparaging comments about everyone who disagrees with you. Suddenly everyone who disagrees with Eisenhaus' stance is a Longaphilic. Someone else posted that maybe people support Long because of racial or geographic reasons.

I support Long's position because I am a consumer who also happens to work in a service related field (as a physician). I'm not a DIY'er, at least not with cars, but have had enough experience with products that don't work the first time and with customer service. Sometimes it's been my fault on the consumer end (why something didn't work, for example) sometime's it's been my fault on the provider end (a side effect from a drug, for example). I've dealt with both sides and am not foreign to the business that comes out of it. As Lux said, calling the bargaining from Long's side "Blackmail" is unreasonable and inflammatory. BTW, not everything Long did is what I would have done, but since I got dissed for "siding with Long" I am addressing this particular point.

Since you mentioned it, the fact that others have liked Eisenmann products doesn't render Long's encounter his fault. Imagine if I prescribed a medicine and said "Well, the last 50 people I gave this medicine to didn't come crying to me about a bleeding ulcer." It's not even clear to me that the exhaust is a bad product. The major beef most of the posters here have is with the nature of the customer service response.

I don't know if somewhere in your imagination there's a bunch of adults out there with Longtran blow-up posters in our bedrooms, but honestly, you ought to consider that maybe someone out there disagrees with you and not out of some vast conspiracy. For the most part, posters on this forum are independent thinkers, and while I don't always agree with them, I know better than to chuck them in the same bag when a few disagree with me.

I found your last post to be insulting to my intelligence and condescending. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, please reread my last post and then your last post for context. You said you've been around here long enough to earn a little respect, well you're not the only one who feels that way about himself.
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      06-04-2006, 02:16 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lni
I don't think so at all.

To take that analogy and twist it to this real scenario, you would have gone into the restaurant and talked to the owner to get the meal at a discount, and promised that you'll tell your friends the the place is awesome.

You get your discounted meal, and it's not quite what you were looking for, but you still want to finish it yet get more money off of the cost of the meal, even though a new meal was offered.
What is your point?
Twist it again to "real scenario" at other view point, that restaurant should be sued and be closed down for creating a meal that made a customer sick. Thank god the customer wasn't mad enough to sue the whole restuarant.

Then they still couldn't provide good enough "discounted" meal, and the customer is still unsatisfied. Now the customer had enough of it, told everyone what happened. The restaurant now got mad also, couldn't deal with the customer anymore, and call it a "blackmail".

Im not sure which one is worse. The customer or the restuarant.

In my mind though, conclusion is, DO NOT make a meal that'll make people sick from the beginning.
If you are not capable of that, close down the restuarant. If you are capable of that, and made mistakes(which happens, and understandable), MAKE SURE the customer is fully satisfied and do whatever you can do UNTIL THE END. Losing one customer is not about losing one burger sales. Losing reputation is what gets you.

Long didn't do jack for me. I never met him, I don't know his real name, I don't know anything about him.
All Im standing up for, is for "one unsatisfied customer" against a big company. Which most big companies out there do not care about losing one customer. Why? there are alot more dumb customers out there than the wise ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e90rocks
Now you've gone from going after Long's character to making disparaging comments about everyone who disagrees with you. Suddenly everyone who disagrees with Eisenhaus' stance is a Longaphilic.
Exactly. Although, Im sure that wasn't chitown's intention(it seems his emotion got ahead of him a little in his posts). He is a very cool guy in my book, and I bet he was just trying to convience people to see two different points of views, instead of just looking at it from long's situation. Which I heavily support him in that route.

but really. Having many experiences like this happened to myself in the past..
I really think the company should learn that there are different types of customers out there. The ones who receives it, don't really care as much and live with it, and the ones who receives it, and can be real picky, especting what they should exactly expect(under "valid reason" circumstances). And a good company should be ready to satisfy both types at all times.
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      06-04-2006, 03:01 AM   #192
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okay i've read up to page 8 of this multi-paged bullshit.

Eisenhaus sold Long a pre-release PRODUCTION product. It was not prototype, it was discounted because Long has a sick ride and is being PAID to do promo, thus the discount.

In plain english, his product was faulty, but Eisenhaus/mann did not respond for 3 weeks. THREE F*CKING WEEKS.

I'm tired of all you "open-minded" people saying that the "Long-Groupies/Supporters" are being quick to judge. Quick to judge? are you saying this is a complicated situation? Bad Product calls for Compensation. End of sentence. A customer is allowed to talk crap as much as they want if they do not recieve such compenstation. Long is not even talking crap, he is SHOWING EVIDENCE of this P.O.S. product.

What the hell does empathizing with Long have to do with being his groupie. And some ***** even brought in ethnicity to this shit.. wow.

Eisenhaus/mann ignored their US-Promo connection for 3 weeks. Game Over.

I dont give a shit if Long was a ex-convict drug dealer who stole his e90, his character has nothing to do with this. The facts are clear, Eisenhaus ignored him. (On a side note, All you people saying he is blackmailing/has bad character, dont even know the guy so stfu. He is a very reasonable and nice guy.)
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      06-04-2006, 07:05 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
What is your point?
My point is that it is not a usual circumstance, and I don't think of the exhaust not equally distributing gasses as synonomous to food poisoning. If you look at the thing, and how those other two flimsy pipes lead to the righ tips, you can easily see it more of a mock up than a true dual exhaust. I would have never expected it to do anythig more than what Long showed in his video. I think most rational peopple shouldnt expect it to behave like a true dual exhaust setup, or like a M3-esque "huge muffler chamber to 4 tips" setup. It is not far from just hanging 2 chrome tips from the bumper, in my mind. I think Long, being the saavy guy that he is, knew this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
Im not sure which one is worse. The customer or the restuarant.
That is my other point. Eisenhaus did the inexcusable thing of delaying any resolution to Long for 3 weeks, on something that Long is obviously incredibly passionate about (his beloved car). However, once a resolution was offered, it shouldn't be carte blanche for Long. I think they did offer a reasonable offer to him, and it wasn't the specific exact resolution Long wanted (which I think from a business standpoint is unreasonable).

So, you're right in saying you don't know who was worse in this scenario. They both were wrong. They are just telling the story from their respective point of view, and neither is lying. It's just how it is from their camp. Sucks for both of them. They both screwed up, and there is no resolution that is going to make either happy.
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      06-04-2006, 08:43 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lni
I think they did offer a reasonable offer to him
Thats where you got it wrong. If you haven't been there, don't talk about whether the "offer" was good enough or not.
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      06-04-2006, 04:41 PM   #195
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i've owned a bmw since 1999, and been on bmw forums for a long as that. long time bmw enthusiasts might remember the bimmer.org days, which roadfly.com eventually took over.

anyway, i've seen some pretty lousy responses from vendors on a variety of issues, and i can say that imho the original response from eisenmann/eisenhaus regarding this matter is pretty bad and does nothing to help their reputation. the use of the word "blackmail" is strong, and uncalled for. customer relation skills are extremely lacking here.

having dealt with a couple bad vendors myself, i can understand long's frustrations. 3 weeks should have been plenty of time to remedy the situation and come to some sort of compromise. even though he got a sponsor price on the exhaust, he should be still treated as like any other customer. he's out there representing your product!

lastly, i'm glad to see e90post is a forum community where members can freely express their frustrations with a vendor, unlike some other forums i know.
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      06-04-2006, 09:15 PM   #196
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Here is to a speedy resolution. I hope Long keeps us updated on this outcome, as we are all eager to know.
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      06-05-2006, 03:50 AM   #197
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Just finish reading all the posts here.
I don't want to invovle in this war.
I am sorry to hear that long got problem wt Eisenmann exhaust.
From what I have learnt , this could be solved through communicaton.And always listen to both side first before make any comments.
I think it's clearly that long wants the money. I found there are a few posts by long , which is explainning why he don't want to send it back. As a cutomer, I think it's kind of reasonnable. While on the other hand, as a company , they will cover ur products but will never cover the shipping.
BTW, I think it's not easy to make a decision about which side u stand for.
Cuz, u never know who is telling the truth.
From my past experiences wt Eisenmann and Eisenhaus . It will be positive, cuz all my friends who have Eisenmann on their cars are working great and never got any problems.
Mine SR Cate-back got a little bit problem wt fitment but it was easy to fix. It costs nothing , no cut ,no major modification, just to make the pipes a bit bigger, so I am satified wt Eisenmann.
One more thing, as human being, everyone will make mistake.
Hoping u guys can figure this problem out!!
Haha, I should ask Eisenmann for a discout too, cuz I will take my car to the show too..Just kiding.
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      06-05-2006, 07:57 AM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux.sh
Thats where you got it wrong. If you haven't been there, don't talk about whether the "offer" was good enough or not.
No, that's where you think I got it wrong. I think I'm right. I offered my opinion, you offered yours. Yours is correct in your book, mine is in mine. Nobody should tell others their opinion is wrong. It just differs from theirs.

I just hope there can be an amicable resolution.
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