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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > SPONSORS Classifieds/Groupbuys/Specials Area > Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Parts > ar design 335i / 335xi Oil Cooler - DON'T lose your stock oil cooler!



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      05-21-2009, 09:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
You will see some pics in the next few days of the new design.
Free bump... How long, exactly, is 'the next few days'?
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      05-21-2009, 10:34 PM   #46
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Holy sh*t! I wonder how this would work...on top of my VK unit...

I agree with everyone else, what's the effect on oil pressure?
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      05-22-2009, 04:37 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Lowcruzr View Post
Free bump... How long, exactly, is 'the next few days'?
Seeing that you don't have an e90 but an e92 you should not be concerned anyway, if I'm not mistaken. My question was directed at the availability for the sedan oil cooler re-design, which has been promised for several months.

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      05-22-2009, 04:40 PM   #48
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I've ordered one of the Sedan specific redesign units, and have been talking to Andrew at AR Design.

He's hoping to have pictures shortly, they've just been swamped with the great response to thier downpipes (something like 4x their estimated order number), and from what I've seen of thier DP design and workmanship, I'm really looking forward to the Oil Cooler.

I've had 4 track days so far (In Canada, where we just had 6" of snow Tues & Wed of this week!), so temps have been fairly cool on the track. Warmed up I normally run about 250F Oil Temp, and 230F water temp. Earlier this week I was out and ambient temps were 45F, within 3 laps my temp indicator (BMW Performance LED Steering wheel with Oil and Water temps digitally displayed) was flashing the temp warning at 265F. By lap 5 I'm at 295F, and then it slowly creeps up to just over 300F where it induces limp. The entire time it's heating up, the ECU reduces boost, so I'm loosing power.

This last Fri & Sat ambients were around 70F and I'd hit limp at over 300F on about lap 15 (about 1:30 lap times, so just over 20 min into the session). But again, within 5 laps I'm around 295F and have lost a fair bit of power.

Compared to the E92 M3 my student was driving last weekend, in which I could lap til endlessly and the temp stayed rock steady at 235F. In another comparison, one of the other instructors, also in an E92 M3, I caught an passed him in the first 5 hot laps, then as the boost was reduced he caught back up, passed, and proceeded to pull away by about 5' a lap until I finally hit limp.

For my car, throughout this time, the water temps only rose from thier normal 230 to about 245. So in my car, it's the oil cooling that's undersized and needs increased capacity.

It's good the car protects itself, although running at 300F isn't exactly good for it either, but the stock cooling is VERY undersized for the amount of heat the N54 generates. Even in cool ambient it overheats easily and quickly. If I remember correctly, the very first 335's produced actually had the center of the oil temp at around 220F, and they made a running change to 240F because people were complaining the needle was always indicating high temps. This indicates to me they either didn't anticipate the heat (unlikely given just 3 laps of track testing) or the engine guys didn't tell the gauge guys to increase the "normal" operating temp range. My point is that this engine normally runs where most engines would be showing high temp. The N54's achilles heal is high temps.

I really like the idea of the second/parallel oil cooler, it more than doubles the cooling capacity, and the increased oil capacity will serve as additional thermal mass to route heat away from the motor. In addition, the high temps are hell on motor oil and the additional volume will help increase it's lifespan between changes. Which, by the way, is recommended to change early and often if you're tracking. This car runs hot, and that's hard on oil. I also use Redline Water Wetter in the coolant, and a friction modifier in the oil.

I'm looking forward to the additional cooling and will be doing datalogs before and after to show the temp differences.
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      05-22-2009, 05:34 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ironring Racing View Post
I've ordered one of the Sedan specific redesign units, and have been talking to Andrew at AR Design.

He's hoping to have pictures shortly, they've just been swamped with the great response to thier downpipes (something like 4x their estimated order number),
That's good news, I'm looking forward to those pictures. However, please bear in mind that the big group buy on their downpipes started in February, so it's been some time.
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and from what I've seen of thier DP design and workmanship, I'm really looking forward to the Oil Cooler.
I completely agree. I'm very happy with their downpipes and can only recommend them to anyone who's interested in making that mod.

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It's good the car protects itself, although running at 300F isn't exactly good for it either, but the stock cooling is VERY undersized for the amount of heat the N54 generates. Even in cool ambient it overheats easily and quickly.
I had the same experience. Some really hard and fast driving on German motorways (over 200 km/h for some minutes and in high revs) let the oil temperatures rise very quickly. And that even in (currently) rather low outside temperatures and the effect of air cooling. I'm certain under more stressful conditions (such as tracking at lower speeds) it would be even worse.
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If I remember correctly, the very first 335's produced actually had the center of the oil temp at around 220F, and they made a running change to 240F because people were complaining the needle was always indicating high temps. This indicates to me they either didn't anticipate the heat (unlikely given just 3 laps of track testing) or the engine guys didn't tell the gauge guys to increase the "normal" operating temp range. My point is that this engine normally runs where most engines would be showing high temp. The N54's achilles heal is high temps.

I really like the idea of the second/parallel oil cooler, it more than doubles the cooling capacity, and the increased oil capacity will serve as additional thermal mass to route heat away from the motor.
Yes, I also think that it was an excellent idea to let it run parallel to the existing oil cooler. Before considering ar design, I already planned to go with the VK Motorwerks, but it would have meant to replace the stock oil cooler - adding another one is just more effective. I'm glad ar design thought of that!
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In addition, the high temps are hell on motor oil and the additional volume will help increase it's lifespan between changes. Which, by the way, is recommended to change early and often if you're tracking. This car runs hot, and that's hard on oil. I also use Redline Water Wetter in the coolant, and a friction modifier in the oil.

I'm looking forward to the additional cooling and will be doing datalogs before and after to show the temp differences.
Looking forward to that!

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      05-22-2009, 05:46 PM   #50
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i just put mine on ;-) temps seems to hold lower even on high loads. need to do some more testing.
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      05-23-2009, 12:27 AM   #51
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Apologies for all the delays. We just moved into a larger shop, caught up from a HUGE backorder of downpipes (we anticipated 10, ended up with 70+ orders, and there are TWO of us here.... We build everything in house, we don't spend all day unloading containers of goods from China

OK, here are some quick and dirty pics of the new setup. Mounts behind a kidney grille. Cost will be coming down quite a bit, around $899 retail. We will be doing a GB at around $699 for the first 50 kits. Core is still a Setrab, but is now mounted in the front of the car, therefore eliminating the shroud and a few other bits.

I will get the bumper off again Monday or Tuesday and snap a few pics with the bumper off. Minor trimming is required, but not a big deal at all. Very easy DIY. The new design will work with all E9x 335i, regardless of M-Tech or other body kits.

Guys that have already ordered your kits - they will be shipping this coming week. I have the brackets, oil cooler cores, and adapter/sandwich plates IN STOCK. Just need to sort out a few final details on the hardware and oil lines and they will be on the way!
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      05-23-2009, 02:31 AM   #52
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why did you change the design? Fitment or better performarce?
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      05-23-2009, 10:31 AM   #53
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what's the surface area and valume compare to other brands?
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      05-24-2009, 05:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar design View Post
Guys that have already ordered your kits - they will be shipping this coming week. I have the brackets, oil cooler cores, and adapter/sandwich plates IN STOCK. Just need to sort out a few final details on the hardware and oil lines and they will be on the way!
That's what I call good news. Looking forward to receiving mine then.

On a sidenote - I'd like to see some pictures on where exactly that oil cooler is now located, in particular with an aftermarket intercooler (I got the Code3 Performance), as I have to admit I don't really see that on these pics here. Knowing you guys I don't anticipate any fitment issues (I assume that's the reason you changed the place where the oil cooler will be installed), but it doesn't hurt to be sure.

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      05-25-2009, 12:00 AM   #55
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I can probably help you there Alpina. For the E90 (Sedan) the same fitment location as the couple wasn't available, so they moved it to sit in front of the stock radiator behind the kidney grill.

Benefits of this are that it won't interfere with any of the intakes (i.e. Dinan) that run down into that area. They also, obviously, won't have any issues with any of the intercoolers that sit in the stock location.

Don't know what the size is, but in the pic it looks like it's about the same size as the original AR Design, if not larger.

In my experience I've found it's the oil temps that are the problem. In some of the 135i race cars I've talked to it's the water temps, not oil, that they're fighting with. But since there's no coolant (radiator) upgrade available, other than the OEM BMW kit that comes with the soft software flash, an oil cooler is the best available option right now, and maybe the best for the 335i anyway.
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      05-25-2009, 01:01 AM   #56
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Yesterday was driving really hard (outside temp around 18C) and could not get the oil temp go over 120C , seems oil temp drop is also much faster now. Happy customer here :-)
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      05-25-2009, 02:17 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Ironring Racing View Post
I can probably help you there Alpina. For the E90 (Sedan) the same fitment location as the couple wasn't available, so they moved it to sit in front of the stock radiator behind the kidney grill.

Benefits of this are that it won't interfere with any of the intakes (i.e. Dinan) that run down into that area. They also, obviously, won't have any issues with any of the intercoolers that sit in the stock location.
Thanks for the info! As the temperatures are rising here in Europe at the moment, I would be happy to be able to install the oil cooler during the next two weeks.

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      05-25-2009, 09:51 AM   #58
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isnt there a loss of coolant cooling capacity due to blocking the radiator now?
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      05-25-2009, 03:57 PM   #59
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Well, that's the possible trade-off. The heat transfer (cooling) is a direct function of the temperature differential. Einstiens law of cooling. So by increasing the air temp as it flows through the oil cooler, yes, it will decrease the effective cooling in the radiator.

The question is whether overall it's better or worse.

Given the short transient time of the air passing through the oil cooler, I would guess the actual temp increase would be small/moderate (varies related to air/vehicle speed), so the reduction in cooling in the rad should be small. The increase in oil cooling should be substantial, and in my case that seems to be the cooling system that's overheating.

Short take: Won't know until I try it, but my educated guess is that unless you're driving around in first gear at redline, there will be sufficient airflow through that the overall cooling will be improved.

Also remember that putting the oil cooler in front of the rad it will somewhat benefit from the fans sucking air through the rad (active airflow). The location in front of the wheel doesn't have that benefit (passive airflow).
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      05-30-2009, 09:35 PM   #60
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Does this 2nd cooler run Parallel to the 1st cooler, or is it run In Line with the first cooler? Thanks.
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      05-31-2009, 03:13 AM   #61
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Can this OC be used with scoops?
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      05-31-2009, 05:01 PM   #62
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Guys that have already ordered your kits - they will be shipping this coming week.
That was last week...bump for update on ETA for new oil cooler
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      05-31-2009, 11:40 PM   #63
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My only problem with group buys is that it takes forever to get the goods!
Can you tell us when is the product expected to ship, if you join the $699 GB?

(Yes, I am in the Helix group buy and paid well over 3 weeks now, after having waited 2.5 months. Still waiting to get the IC)

/Rant
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      06-02-2009, 10:54 AM   #64
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I need this
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      06-02-2009, 12:03 PM   #65
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hi.. could you please let me the status of my oil cooler that i paid for almost 3 months ago? thank you very much.
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      06-02-2009, 12:32 PM   #66
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hi.. could you please let me the status of my oil cooler that i paid for almost 3 months ago? thank you very much.
+1

Only yesterday I did longer distances with over 200 km/h on average and a 300 km/h peak and saw oil temperatures rising quite fast. I'd love to install that now before it gets even warmer.

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