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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > my first spin



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      02-02-2009, 02:29 AM   #1
satakal
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my first spin

I finally "man up" and drive with the traction ctrl all the way off. Giving it a bit too much steering and/or throttle and I just don't recover. I had rocks in the bead of the tire that had to be taken care of. I felt pretty dumb, but since there were so few cars on track, no one cared.



Oh, and here's my time trail session. I'm amazed that my quickest lap of the weekend happened when it counted. I think I'll stick to DEs. This TT stuff isn't a good place to have your brain linger when you're ontrack with the daily driver. This was at Streets of Willow with the PCA and I run a 1:31.7.



The car was perfect. Brakes are gone again. Off for another set of free pads in a few days. I think only once or twice over a little more than 200 track miles across 2 days did I feel the brake pedal getting long. Tire wear was greatly increased because I'm finally able to get the tires to "talk to me". I'm starting to trail brake to great effect. And, with the DSC off, throttle rotation is making for better corner exits. The 29.2 that I have was giving a bit of "flat spot" feeling at 3k relative to what the power feels like just above that. That put me in 2nd gear for some turns that I would have prefered to just leave it in 3rd. A few people watching the action commented that the car has lots of body roll in it. Especially in comparison to Spec944s and raced out 993s etc.

After this weekend, I'm even more determined to be ontrack with a car that I can afford to total. Hunting for tenths isn't going to end pretty.

Edit: I took some pictures too!








Last edited by satakal; 02-02-2009 at 03:22 PM.
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      02-02-2009, 08:07 AM   #2
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Dont feel bad....in total I have had about 12 spins since 1997. Different cars..different tracks....havent spun (except if you count that one time at Infineon) in the last six years.
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      02-02-2009, 12:42 PM   #3
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yeah, everyone spins at one point or another. SoW is a good place to learn the limits of your car, as the speeds are much lower than some other tracks, and there is a lot of run off room. I wouldn't say that was a dumb spin, I've seen lots of people lose it there. Besides, it looks like you kept the car pretty clean on that one! Nothing like getting back to the pits with a few cubic feet of sand scattered throughout your interior.

Looks like your car has a good amount of understeer, until you stomp the throttle anyway. I bet your tires are crying Probably a good idea to look for a dedicated track beater, since you appear to really getting into it. Then you can set the car up for the track, and not have to live with the discomfort when your are going to/from work.
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      02-02-2009, 12:48 PM   #4
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Yeah, it was just 1 wheel off. I'm so happy my car isn't filled with half of Rosamond. SoW is definetly lower speed than other places I've been, but I'm really uncomfortable with the visibility there. And with off-track berms and holes. But yeah, I already have the next track car in the garage. Next is getting it ready for more than an autox.
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      02-02-2009, 02:47 PM   #5
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That looked like the spin I did... in traffic. Unfortunately, after that I lost my edge and penchant for fast driving.

Like you, I got that feeling that I should be tracking a car I can afford to total as well.
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      02-02-2009, 03:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satakal View Post
After this weekend, I'm even more determined to be ontrack with a car that I can afford to total. Hunting for tenths isn't going to end pretty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampfer View Post
Like you, I got that feeling that I should be tracking a car I can afford to total as well.
What about getting track insurance? Still not the same as having a dedicated track car, but it might provide some peace of mind.
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      02-02-2009, 03:15 PM   #7
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Never heard of track insurance; i'll look into it.
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      02-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #8
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Those vids are both the same I think
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      02-02-2009, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scollins View Post
What about getting track insurance? Still not the same as having a dedicated track car, but it might provide some peace of mind.
Good point. In addition to not wanting to hurt the 335, I think I've found a better car to learn to drive in. Less power, less wieght, easier on tires, easier on brakes, and I should be able to work on it in the garage.
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      02-02-2009, 03:23 PM   #10
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Those vids are both the same I think
you are right. It's fixed now.

I think lap 2 is the magic lap:

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      02-02-2009, 04:14 PM   #11
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Another reason DSC should be used for as little time as possible when learning. You never really learn to drive at the limit with it on and actually drive over the limit without knowing it. Go to turn it off and you have to learn to drive all over again.

I still haven't spun and I drive pretty hard, I've gotten 90 degrees sideways and recovered and gone straight off once or twice, had many people spin infront, but still haven't myself. Not looking forward to that day.
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      02-02-2009, 08:02 PM   #12
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I'm glad your putting my camera mount to good use
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      02-03-2009, 09:39 AM   #13
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If you drive at the limit you will spin. I drove professional for many years i was also an instructor for a couple performance education programs, and i have spun a couple of times.

The worst ever was on my 911 993 carrera track car, i broke the axel after the spin thanks to racing tires. Somebody blew a tranny in front of me in the middle of the turn, i went into the turn and got loose, all of the sudden the tires grip and broke my axel in half, and i went along for the ride.

Have fun, and remember keep it on the track.

RICARDO.
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      02-03-2009, 10:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBMW335 View Post
If you drive at the limit you will spin. I drove professional for many years i was also an instructor for a couple performance education programs, and i have spun a couple of times.

The worst ever was on my 911 993 carrera track car, i broke the axel after the spin thanks to racing tires. Somebody blew a tranny in front of me in the middle of the turn, i went into the turn and got loose, all of the sudden the tires grip and broke my axel in half, and i went along for the ride.

Have fun, and remember keep it on the track.

RICARDO.
I severely doubt you blew a CV joint from gripping after getting loose in a higher gear, much more likely it blew when you went backwards with the clutch engaged.
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      02-03-2009, 10:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBMW335 View Post
If you drive at the limit you will spin.
Aint that the truth...most of my spins were in my early years...with off throttle oversteer being the main culprit...early apexing was definitely involved in a few....rain was the reason for one...and deteriorating brakes another. If you push it on a regular basis..a spin will come...yes, I have caught lots of spins and corrected them before they got bad. To be honest..now that I have a lot of track days...the most enjoyable part of driving is pushing the limits...catching something early..making adjustments and saying to myself "I caught that...corrected it...and continued on without losing any speed". Big grin everytime that happens.

I have a spin from a few months ago at Infineon that I will post...reason for this one was getting on the throttle too soon and not being use to the extra power of the Dinan tune. Still getting the video converted so I can upload to youtube.
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      02-03-2009, 10:37 AM   #16
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I severely doubt you blew a CV joint from gripping after getting loose in a higher gear, much more likely it blew when you went backwards with the clutch engaged.
Its very possible, it happen after i started spinning. As i was trying to correct it, i just felt the SNAP, and heard a huge crack sound. I just waited in the car for the tow truck and took it to the garage and notice my AXEL ( broken ).

It wasn't pretty.
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      02-03-2009, 11:01 AM   #17
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I haven't anywhere close to the experience on a roadcourse the other posters do, but I do have some experience in karting. If you're not pushing it to the point where you've spun then you'll never learn how fast you can really go. I've spun my kart more times than I can count. Although, I spin that and at most I break a $200 axel.

Having said that, most of us drive our daily drivers to the HPDE's. Not sure about you guys, but I'm not gonna win anything for a second a lap quicker.. so I push it a little... but I have no interest in spinning my $50K car.
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      02-03-2009, 12:47 PM   #18
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If you're not pushing it to the point where you've spun then you'll never learn how fast you can really go
That's the reason I took a break from bikes. Nothing like sliding on the ground on a trajectory to strike a solid object to make steel cages (ie cars) seem like a great idea
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