[stressdoc]

Got my car back. BMW suspension package including dampers, springs, and 14mm rear sway. M3 suspension parts including front control arms & tension rods, rear guide rods & control arms, rear sub-frame bushings -- the full boat from the 4 packages that Tischer has put together. I also finally got the Quaife LSD installed the week before. I will write a detailed analysis after putting the car through its paces this week. But for now, my initial impressions are as follows:

The car rocks. It is totally planted. No more wallowing. The car body remains flat through curves. It is solid, solid, solid. Acceleration and braking are level, no more bobbing up and down when taking off from stoplights and running up through the gears. I am really, really pleased. It feels like an M3 or a slightly overweight Lotus. Now it has a chassis that can handle more power. The ride is fine, if you appreciate road feel. Definitely need to get all the crap that can bounce around out of the car. No more piles of CDs lazily stacked in the door pockets. And the pump & flat kit in the trunk need to be cinched down. Everything tight and solid.

First, kudos to Harold, Orb, Mr.5, and the rest of you who pioneered the development and installation of these mods, and were kind enough to post up your experiences here on E90Post.

Second, kudos to Tischer for the completeness of their packages. The BMW tech that did the work was impressed that every part that he needed was there. And the pricing on these parts is great, I never would have tried all this if the cost had not been so reasonable.

Third, kudos to the awesome service dept at my dealer. The SM is nothing short of incredible. The tech worked meticulously for over two days getting everything done right. No squeaks, no clunks, no slop, no buzz. Tight as a drum. Perfect. All for an astonishingly reasonable price. Details on install techniques to follow later.

I am in car heaven.

[Gesler]

wow, this sounds very good! Looking forward to the details, particularly installation for the M3 parts and the LSD. Have fun!

[Turkishexpress]

Wow really sounds great! If you don't mind me asking how much did you end up paying for labor? You can pm me if you feel more comfortable. Thanks!

[devitocoke]

how much was labor at the dealer?

[stressdoc]

All the suspension work, including oil change for the differential and a hi-tech alignment, for under 1k. This does not include the LSD which I did at Metric Mechanics.

To say that I highly recommend this dealer (Machens) is a mild understatement. They have the tools and the info to do it right. And the warranty. Anyone considering this work in the midwest should think about trekking to Columbia, MO to get this done.

[kevkaz]

Did you put on the M3 Rear Wishbone Set too?

What benefit does upgrading the Rear Guide Rods provide? Just lighter, or more?

[Mr. 5]

Awesome Doc!!
I knew you would like it!

I'd love to see the pictures of your car before and after the install to see the ride height difference with yours as well.
I'm seriously contemplating doing the spring install now since the springs seem to definitely add to the performance.

[just4kickz]

nice... who knew mix and match of oem could be that great.

[LaYzEe]

hey doc, how hard was it to install the rear sub-frame bushings? on the other thread Mr. 5 was saying that the bushings are harder to install compared to the rest

btw, congrats on the new suspension!

i'll be joining the group soon! let me just save some cash!

[stressdoc]

The rear subframe bushings are a bitch, you pretty much have to lower the whole subframe down to put the M3 bushings for the front in because they have a different wedge than the 335 bushings and have to be pressed in from the top -- the rear ones are easier (apologies for the confusing front and rear terminology here, I will post up diagrams eventually). The M3 bushings are quite different from the 335 bushings in terms of rigidity. The 335 metal bushing cylinders are suspended in a soft web of rubber, whereas the M3 cylinders are embedded in solid apparently stiffer rubber. No question that doing all this stuff at the same time is more efficient. I will write more on this when I get the time, but you need to think carefully about what your priorities are and allocate your $ accordingly.

In terms of ride height, I can barely stick one finger in between the top of the tire and the fender in the rear, and a touch more than a finger in front. I have 40 series snow tires on, so when I go back to my summer tires I am guessing that the rear will have a touch more. I will measure tomorrow, but my guess (and I have to measure a lot of things in my work...) is that the front is now at 15mm gap and the rear at 12mm. It could be a little less. Definitely lower than ZSP by at least 15mm overall. And it has not settled yet. So in the end I am guessing that there will be about a 10mm gap.

I am especially interested in analyzing what suspension balance is best suited to the 335 with a LSD. I was a little surprised that BMW Performance went the other way with their new version (I got the old version) of the suspension package, opting to change the front sway a little bit, and leaving the 13mm rear sway as is. Moreover, to reaffirm that the 13mm bar is what they want in the rear with the Perf kit, they specify going from the 14mm rear to the 13mm rear for M-sport cars!!! That is a surprise. My guess is that the spring balance for the Perf package changed the under/over steer balance enough that BMW wanted to put some more safety (read: understeer) into the mix. My thought is that with a LSD (and experience controlling power oversteer) the thicker rear sway is desirable. Without the LSD the inside wheel lift is a problem.

[Gen_E92]

nice review...just wondering, why not go with 20mm rear now that you got all the M3 parts and LSD?

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by kevkaz

Did you put on the M3 Rear Wishbone Set too?

What benefit does upgrading the Rear Guide Rods provide? Just lighter, or more?

Yes, I got the 'wishbone' set too, they are not really what I would call wishbones, but that is the label on the kit.

The main benefit from the change to these M3 parts in the rear is the stiffer bushings and, in extreme conditions, greater strength. The lighter weight is not easily noticeable in DD. All told I think the weight loss per wheel is about 2 lbs. If you are really anal and have 17.4 lbs Volks with 21 lbs Michelin PS2s, the unsprung weight reduction would have a significant effect (lighter brakes would be great too). I have 24 lbs M193 rims and 23lbs Pirelli P-0s. The shift from rfts was really significant, and I imagine the loss of about 6 lbs per wheel did not hurt.

In the front there are minor geometry differences, providing more negative camber. This you notice on turn in -- the car tracks better, the steering response is more immediate and precise.

The car has transitioned from feeling like a great luxury car that handles, to feeling like a purpose-built sports car. Instead of the feeling of "wow, what a comfortable this car is, I did not expect such a luxury ride from a car that handles and performs this well" you now get the feeling of "wow, what a tight performance car this is, I did not expect a sedan to drive and feel like a Porsche S or a Lotus." I had to suffer driving a 528 loaner while my car was being worked on. No criticism of the fiver, it's a great car for its purpose, but it does not drive like a sports car. The difference between the before and after install of the parts on my car is about like the difference between a non-ZSP 528 and a ZSP 335.

[scottp999]

Cool deal. Posted in the tischer thread that includes coupes. Anyone have an idea for labor hours to install the performance kit? Anyone have an idea of drop on an e92 with sports package?

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by Gen_E92

nice review...just wondering, why not go with 20mm rear now that you got all the M3 parts and LSD?

Because there are still additional differences with the M3 in terms of track width and other issues that make a 20mm bar too much for my preference. If I change the front bar I may revisit the option of a stiffer rear sway. I am generally of the school that emphasizes tuning with springs and dampers; but that is not a well-informed position, so I tend to follow the conservative route of emulating what BMW does rather than charting my own course. When Harold and Orb get the full M3 swap worked out then I think that would be an excellent choice.

I have limited seat time in a M3. It would be most interesting for those of you with friends that have Ms to swap and compare. I would love to work with this in a controlled experimental situation to dial in the handling of the 335 to approach that of the M3. But I think way more capable folks than me are working on that already.

[tomtom]

i am thinking of doing front M3 parts and rear guide rod. is the rear guide rod an easy install?

[gt3fever]

thanks for the review gotta order my set asap lol
did you get the M3 Front Strut Tower Brace or keep it stock?

[stressdoc]

The drop should be the same for E90, E91, E92, E93. About 15 mm more than ZSP. A finger between tire and fender.

For labor pricing on just the new Perf kit, you can ask your dealer/shop. It is a potential DIY, although you will need an alignment. Once you start getting into replacing the M3 bits or rear sway then you can get into some long hours. If you are opting for anything like the complete makeover that I did and you are within a days drive of MO then I would certainly consider having my dealer do it. The price and quality are unbeatable. If you need a place to crash I have a cool tree house.

I will be installing the M3 strut brace and Hotchkis rear chassis brace when I catch my breath. IMO the firmer suspension warrants a beefed up chassis.

[stressdoc]

One issue in regard to the BMW Perf suspension kit are the changes from the 'old' kit to the 'new' version. Points to consider: (1) the new kit changes the front sway, but the effects are unclear. Same diameter, different shape. Might have to do with the lowering. The front sway is much easier to change than the rear, so labor is less. But some of you may prefer a stiffer rear bar, so now you have to get that independently -- it's cheap ($90), but not what BMW recommends. (2) the price of the new kit, even at Tischer prices ($1275), is not quite the bargain that the old kit was ($980). Now it is in the price range of kw v1/v2, Bilstein PSS10, and some other excellent aftermarket coilovers. Still a better deal than the Dinan stage I though. And you keep the warranty etc. But in my opinion it is not the slam dunk great deal that it was previously. I am happy I got the old version, but that is partly because I have a LSD. One key advantage of the BMW Perf kit is the firm mounting hardware. The standard ZSP shock mounts and spring mounts are pretty sloppy. The firm Perf hardware is important when you are stiffening up the dampers and springs. Plus the Perf kit is hassle-free. I got a great deal on the install price at my dealer, but even if you pay dealer labor, you should get the job done right. The details on the BMW service instructions are extensive, and includes stuff like headlight leveling.

[Chowbow]

I'm still kind of lost on the differences between the old and new kit, and the $300 price difference. Seems like the old kit had a rear sway bar, new has the front sway bar and springs which let the car sit a bit lower... That seems like a big price hike for slight changes... Good to hear that you like it though!

[Amir87]

I have a question regarding warranty,

Does a BMW dealer have to install it for the BMW Performance Suspension warranty to be intact? Or can you get a third party (or yourself) to install it, and if there's any problems( shocks blow out, etc) would BMWNA cover it?

[LaYzEe]

i got one more question doc...

this car is my daily driver. i work in san francisco so i got the crappy ass streets to deal with. i do canyon runs once in awhile, depending on weather, ive never done auto x or gone on the track (although i would like to! )

so my question is, do i need the rear subframe bushings? i mean if its really a PITA to get it installed and i wont push my car to the limit, no need right? all i really want is a tighter, firmer suspension, more planted on turnings, less body roll, and a mild drop.

[rcusick]

I did bushings and front tension rod some time ago. Just finished rear guide rods, front lower wishbone and strut arm brace. Also have H&R sways and KW street comfort installed.

I would say bushings made overall steering feel more tight - definitely working much better with Non RFT's. Lower wishbone changes camber a bit, so turn-in is a bit better with much less understeer. I'm not sure I can tell the difference with rear guide rods.

For review of H&R sways and KW Street comfort see previous post or PM me...

Again - Kudos for Autotalent for doing things right!