E90Post
 


Horizon LED
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Aftermarket water cooling



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-02-2009, 04:21 AM   #1
rismo
Captain
15
Rep
841
Posts

 
Drives: BMW E92 335
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Aftermarket water cooling

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if besides BMW, any of the aftermarket tuners would come up with an improved water cooling system for the x35?

Some questions I have:

- Would it be better to improve the water or the oil cooling of the engine when tuned?
- If non of the tuners would bring an improved water cooling kit, why would that be?

Thanks!
__________________
BMW 335 E92 08 - Full options - RIP
BMW 335 E92 09 - Full options - DKG - Procede Rev 3 - Vishnu Meth and Chargepipe - Forge Diverter Valves - Vishnu Flex Fuel Kit- AR Catless DP - Afe Intake - Helix IC - Ar Oil Cooler - PPK Water Cooler - M3 Suspension - JRZ RS1 Shocks - Eibach Pro Springs - Drexler LSD - BMW IS Exhaust - EBC Yellow Brake Pads - Stainless Steel Brake Lines - M101 Wheels - Michelin PSS - M-Tech Body - M-Strutbar
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 09:44 AM   #2
rismo
Captain
15
Rep
841
Posts

 
Drives: BMW E92 335
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Nobody with some thougths? :-)
__________________
BMW 335 E92 08 - Full options - RIP
BMW 335 E92 09 - Full options - DKG - Procede Rev 3 - Vishnu Meth and Chargepipe - Forge Diverter Valves - Vishnu Flex Fuel Kit- AR Catless DP - Afe Intake - Helix IC - Ar Oil Cooler - PPK Water Cooler - M3 Suspension - JRZ RS1 Shocks - Eibach Pro Springs - Drexler LSD - BMW IS Exhaust - EBC Yellow Brake Pads - Stainless Steel Brake Lines - M101 Wheels - Michelin PSS - M-Tech Body - M-Strutbar
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 09:51 AM   #3
J.P.
Close to bein Bannned
J.P.'s Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
5,068
Posts

 
Drives: Pussy Magnet
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hunterdon, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to J.P.
I don't think it would hurt..
I would be more curious to see the price..
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexye92 View Post
JERRYS MOM= BEST HEAD OF MY LIFE
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 12:14 PM   #4
veightkiller
Brigadier General
veightkiller's Avatar
Canada
46
Rep
4,153
Posts

 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Vancouver,B.C

iTrader: (3)

^^+1 and i haven't seen a aftermarket parts that improves cooling
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 12:22 PM   #5
J86
Power without LSD = FAIL
J86's Avatar
Japan
55
Rep
2,146
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: vancouver

iTrader: (6)

i think this is what we REALLY NEED especially for the guys who track (road course)...
the LIMPs are not always caused by oil temps but water temps i believe...
__________________
E36 M3 - BBS RC302 / CCW Classics / SSR Comp
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 12:36 PM   #6
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
139
Rep
10,169
Posts

 
Drives: F80 YMB
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

iTrader: (0)

It's complex stuff. You can do the simple thing and use some waterwetter, but beyond that it gets tricky. BMW (and Alpina, Dinan, et al) adjust the software control of the water pump. The new BMW Performance tune will include both software and hardware fixes. That looks to be the clear easy solution for now.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 12:48 PM   #7
dlbrooks18
Brigadier General
dlbrooks18's Avatar
52
Rep
3,583
Posts

 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
It's complex stuff. You can do the simple thing and use some waterwetter, but beyond that it gets tricky. BMW (and Alpina, Dinan, et al) adjust the software control of the water pump. The new BMW Performance tune will include both software and hardware fixes. That looks to be the clear easy solution for now.

+1, totally agree with you. I'm going to say again that a flash is better suited for tracking, and IMO Dinan offers the best solution for cooling with their tune that increases water pump flow and host of other tweaks to keep the car running reliably strong consistently for longer periods of time w/o overheating coupled with upgraded FMIC and oil cooler.. no limp modes reported for that video of the M3 vs. Dinan 335 performance test
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 12:51 PM   #8
J86
Power without LSD = FAIL
J86's Avatar
Japan
55
Rep
2,146
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: vancouver

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbrooks18 View Post
IMO Dinan offers the best solution for cooling with their tune that increases water pump flow and host of other tweaks to keep the car running reliably strong consistently for longer periods of time w/o overheating coupled with upgraded FMIC and oil cooler.. no limp modes reported for that video of the M3 vs. Dinan 335 performance test
I didnt go for the Dinan because 2 members were still getting LIMPS with Dinan at the track. Even with their flash, it still limped at the track WTF?
__________________
E36 M3 - BBS RC302 / CCW Classics / SSR Comp
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 12:54 PM   #9
dlbrooks18
Brigadier General
dlbrooks18's Avatar
52
Rep
3,583
Posts

 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

^ did they have the Dinan FMIC and oil cooler as well? This is a MUST for tracking purposes..
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 01:02 PM   #10
J86
Power without LSD = FAIL
J86's Avatar
Japan
55
Rep
2,146
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: vancouver

iTrader: (6)

this car tracks fine without limp modes without a tune, so by adding a dinan flash tune only, you would limp? what good is that alone then? nothing? just daily driving and straight line 1/4 drags?

I hope some company comes out with some upgrades for water cooling soon
__________________
E36 M3 - BBS RC302 / CCW Classics / SSR Comp
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 01:33 PM   #11
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbrooks18 View Post
+1, totally agree with you. I'm going to say again that a flash is better suited for tracking, and IMO Dinan offers the best solution for cooling with their tune that increases water pump flow and host of other tweaks to keep the car running reliably strong consistently for longer periods of time w/o overheating coupled with upgraded FMIC and oil cooler.. no limp modes reported for that video of the M3 vs. Dinan 335 performance test
Increasing the water pump duty cycle will do absolutely nothing to help high water temps.

When you're pushing 230+ water temps on track, the pump is already running 100%.

The reason why the Dinan doesn't limp on track is that it essentially becomes a stock tune when temps start rising. S4to335 with his Dinan tune couldn't outdrag a stock car.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 01:35 PM   #12
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

FYI - what I'm going to try this year is 80% distilled, 20% coolant and a bottle of water wetter. Water is better at dissipating heat than coolant.

Last year, I ran the stock coolant mix (50/50?) and dumped a bottle of water wetter in there. Verified with data logging, this did absolutely nothing.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 01:36 PM   #13
J86
Power without LSD = FAIL
J86's Avatar
Japan
55
Rep
2,146
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: vancouver

iTrader: (6)

let us know the results ^

thanks for that info, i was going to try 50/50 with water wetter but i guess thats a no no now
__________________
E36 M3 - BBS RC302 / CCW Classics / SSR Comp
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 01:56 PM   #14
tinnsoldaten
Captain
tinnsoldaten's Avatar
Norway
6
Rep
685
Posts

 
Drives: e92 335i coupe
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bergen

iTrader: (1)

Isn`t it only to find a point of the oil/water loop , connect a radiator with fan , add the extra liquid that the extra radiator with hose use ? Basically extend the cooling loop and deploy an extra radiator.

What would happend if one did something like this ? Would it work ? Is it harmful in any way?

But next issue , where could this be installed , where is it room for it?
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 02:04 PM   #15
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinnsoldaten View Post
Isn`t it only to find a point of the oil/water loop , connect a radiator with fan , add the extra liquid that the extra radiator with hose use ? Basically extend the cooling loop and deploy an extra radiator.

What would happend if one did something like this ? Would it work ? Is it harmful in any way?

But next issue , where could this be installed , where is it room for it?
Would probably work. Your last sentence details the problem.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 02:08 PM   #16
rismo
Captain
15
Rep
841
Posts

 
Drives: BMW E92 335
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the replies!

The reason that I stated the question, is related to my track experiences, a stock 335 just get's to warm on itself.
Having a tuned 335 on the track is like an early christmas with all the warning lights on the dash.

Besides that, the first thing BMW did, was not improving the oil cooler (which is high on my todo list) but the water cooling.

So from there, to get this car really trackable, after proper tyres and suspension, cooling the car would the next thing to do, even before tuning the engine.
The idea of tinnsoldaten, extending the water loop with a radiator and maybe an additional fan would probably lower the water temp/ keeping it longer "less warm".
I believe BMW also introduced a new water pump.
But what I know from water and pumps (I should as Im from Holland :-)) is that the volume / amount of water does not matter to the pump. So extending the circuit would
at least keep the car longer away from overheating.....
__________________
BMW 335 E92 08 - Full options - RIP
BMW 335 E92 09 - Full options - DKG - Procede Rev 3 - Vishnu Meth and Chargepipe - Forge Diverter Valves - Vishnu Flex Fuel Kit- AR Catless DP - Afe Intake - Helix IC - Ar Oil Cooler - PPK Water Cooler - M3 Suspension - JRZ RS1 Shocks - Eibach Pro Springs - Drexler LSD - BMW IS Exhaust - EBC Yellow Brake Pads - Stainless Steel Brake Lines - M101 Wheels - Michelin PSS - M-Tech Body - M-Strutbar
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 02:11 PM   #17
rismo
Captain
15
Rep
841
Posts

 
Drives: BMW E92 335
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
Would probably work. Your last sentence details the problem.
You have space in the front of the car near to the drivers position.

The oil radiator is on the same spot but at the passenger side.

If you extend your oil circuit, they also put the additional radiator near to the drivers side at the front wheel.
__________________
BMW 335 E92 08 - Full options - RIP
BMW 335 E92 09 - Full options - DKG - Procede Rev 3 - Vishnu Meth and Chargepipe - Forge Diverter Valves - Vishnu Flex Fuel Kit- AR Catless DP - Afe Intake - Helix IC - Ar Oil Cooler - PPK Water Cooler - M3 Suspension - JRZ RS1 Shocks - Eibach Pro Springs - Drexler LSD - BMW IS Exhaust - EBC Yellow Brake Pads - Stainless Steel Brake Lines - M101 Wheels - Michelin PSS - M-Tech Body - M-Strutbar
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 02:19 PM   #18
tinnsoldaten
Captain
tinnsoldaten's Avatar
Norway
6
Rep
685
Posts

 
Drives: e92 335i coupe
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bergen

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking of the area behind front fender , where some install their cold air intake , front of wheel , driver side.

Or just simply mount radiators to underside of hood , install some CF grill of some sort to let heat out. Would involve some long routing of hoses though....
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 02:46 PM   #19
leftcoastman
Lieutenant Colonel
23
Rep
1,710
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Near some canyons

iTrader: (1)

I see the driver's side "OC location" as working. I guess I don't see it making much of an impact, given the size. I would rather put a thicker radiator in the stock location. THere's a company out of Australia that sells it already. Don't have link handy, though.

If you mess with driver's side OC location, just make sure the brake cooling isn't compromised. If you start running Rcomps and race pads, you will start begging for more brake cooling.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 04:04 PM   #20
dlbrooks18
Brigadier General
dlbrooks18's Avatar
52
Rep
3,583
Posts

 
Drives: e90 335i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J86 View Post
this car tracks fine without limp modes without a tune, so by adding a dinan flash tune only, you would limp? what good is that alone then? nothing? just daily driving and straight line 1/4 drags?

I hope some company comes out with some upgrades for water cooling soon
Not true, the stock car has issues at the track and will limp if you push it too hard.. running a piggy will only cause limp to occur a lot sooner. That being said, a Dinan flashed car can still limp but less likely if you have upgraded FMIC and oil cooler, but limp isn't all bad, would you rather blow your engine?

Agreed that more upgrades for cooling mods are needed. From what I've read, looks like BMW has this in the works.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 04:25 PM   #21
F104
Captain
Belgium
8
Rep
727
Posts

 
Drives: E92 320D M-sport
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: belgium

iTrader: (0)

I wonder if the vented Vorsteiner hood would bring advantages. I still believe the engine bay 'inlet' area thru the radiator / intercooler is much larger then the 'outlet' area. Except for some tiny holes into the wheel wells, and some flow thru the transmission tunnel, I don't see where the hot air goes out which must adversly affect airflow thru radiator and IC, fan running or not.
Some large vents in the hood could significantly improve airflow
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2009, 07:57 PM   #22
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
139
Rep
10,169
Posts

 
Drives: F80 YMB
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MO

iTrader: (0)

We will see the details of what BMW's solution is shortly. I am curious about the change in the fan and where they put the additional radiator.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST