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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > PROcede Boost vs. RPM Curves



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      03-06-2009, 11:35 AM   #67
335lvr
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It makes sense to me to lower/raise boost based on the engine dynamics going on across the rev range to make a smooth power delivery (but it's way over my head).

I'd like more info on where the boost choppiness comes from. Is it the tune? Free flowing mods (DCI, DPs, etc.). Is it normal to see this?
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      03-06-2009, 12:13 PM   #68
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Keep in mind that an evo dyno isn't apples to apples.

It's a small engine spinning a large turbo, it takes time ( and a few thousand rpm ) just to reach full boost.

You can't presume that the evo torque curve starts low because it's desired that way (I had one, it's NOT desired. The car is seriously _DEAD_ below 4k rpm, a CRX will haul out faster than an evo below 4k rpm...).

The 335 can do full boost very early. That is a really awesome feature that there is no need to dismiss.


EDIT :

dadasracecar <<
I misunderstood your post, I thought you said the evo curves were not flat [because of the large ramp at the start]. But now I see that this post is OT to yours, you were actually saying that they *are flat*.

Mods << feel free to delete this post.

-scheherazade
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      03-06-2009, 12:52 PM   #69
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      03-06-2009, 01:19 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadasracecar View Post
1) the spike is indeed a throttle related spike. It can be confirmed be it not being shown on a boost gauge.

2) for being so vehement about things, you seem to ignore the fact that the other two logs are of a stg 1 map set to 80% and a stg 0 map set to 90%. The relative boost curves are spot on.

Is there anything else you would like to complain about?

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      03-06-2009, 01:32 PM   #71
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shiv <<

So, how about that idea with the separately user adjustable boost targets per rpm range? (like low, mid, high, and/or some in between (interpolated)). You considered it at all?

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      03-06-2009, 01:34 PM   #72
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That used to be implemented a while ago
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      03-06-2009, 01:40 PM   #73
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I for one do not want flat boost all over the RPm range, seems to my ignorant self that it would be undue and uncessary load on the engine internals.. I would much rather have a flat torque curve and predictable and smooth acceleration...
And also I could not care less about tuning the car myself.. How many of us actually have the knowledge and expertise to do that??

Shiv, this guy has an agenda to push another tune, it's obvious just ignore him and go put together my V3 !!!
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      03-06-2009, 01:40 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
shiv <<

So, how about that idea with the separately user adjustable boost targets per rpm range? (like low, mid, high, and/or some in between (interpolated)). You considered it at all?

-scheherazade
We used to have that about a year ago (user torque with respect to 16 rpm breakpoints with inter-cell interpolation). But we removed it in favor of a global UT variable. Mostly because people would run bizarre self-inflicted boost curves that didn't work well. Rarely did anyone dial it in on the dyno which is what it was for. It will come back soon (after CANbus integration). And we'll have some limits in place to keep things within a certain range.

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      03-06-2009, 02:07 PM   #75
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Trying to use statistics to prove a point is akin to a bikini......they reveal a lot, but cover up the essentials
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      03-06-2009, 03:34 PM   #76
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Hey dadasracecar - why not go over to the other place and argue with Terry and his crowd. They live by the feud. Of course they'll bitch-slap you silly, track down and hack into your websites, post pictures of your home and business along with your addresses and phone numbers. If you ever had a nude photo taken with a goat, they'll post that too. If not, they'll photochop one. Did I mention that they'll ban you and incessantly disparage your character.
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      03-06-2009, 04:27 PM   #77
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lawdude has been one of my FAV 5 here
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      03-06-2009, 04:49 PM   #78
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What new place?
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      03-06-2009, 05:51 PM   #79
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mmmm I like this thread, good info from the vendor, and from those that question.
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      03-06-2009, 07:31 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
Hey dadasracecar - why not go over to the other place and argue with Terry and his crowd. They live by the feud. Of course they'll bitch-slap you silly, track down and hack into your websites, post pictures of your home and business along with your addresses and phone numbers. If you ever had a nude photo taken with a goat, they'll post that too. If not, they'll photochop one. Did I mention that they'll ban you and incessantly disparage your character.
Been banned there for a while because I was arguing with terry and the mob over their lack of timing control as was so excellently demonstrated by Scalbert. The new spot won't have any of this ridiculous ban and censorship problems that other sites have.
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      03-06-2009, 07:38 PM   #81
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It will come back soon
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      03-06-2009, 10:19 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
Hey dadasracecar - why not go over to the other place and argue with Terry and his crowd. They live by the feud. Of course they'll bitch-slap you silly, track down and hack into your websites, post pictures of your home and business along with your addresses and phone numbers. If you ever had a nude photo taken with a goat, they'll post that too. If not, they'll photochop one. Did I mention that they'll ban you and incessantly disparage your character.

Sometimes truth IS stranger than fiction....lol.

Nice one Lawdude.

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      03-06-2009, 11:29 PM   #83
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lawdude makes laugh

thanks dude!
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      03-07-2009, 02:05 AM   #84
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Added Valet Mode Data

Okay, as promised I did a datalog of Valet mode (stock) and added Items 6 and 7 to my original post. Have at it!
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      03-07-2009, 02:09 AM   #85
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Quote:
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Okay, as promised I did a datalog of Valet mode (stock) and added Items 6 and 7 to my original post. Have at it!
The lines look pretty squiggly, even on map 0. Is that a tuning problem or a measuring problem? Also that 16psi boost spike seems pretty scary. What did you do to cause that? Is it something that will be fixed in future maps?
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      03-07-2009, 02:13 AM   #86
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The lines look pretty squiggly, even on map 0. Is that a tuning problem or a measuring problem? Also that 16psi boost spike seems pretty scary. What did you do to cause that? Is it something that will be fixed in future maps?
I do believe that the 16 psi spike on the datalog (remember that's in the intercooler charge pipe) is from a throttle closure because my boost gauge only read a little over 15 psi peak hold. From reading the gauge real time and comparing it to datalogs, I think the difference between my gauge and the datlog is normally about 0.5 psi. So, the "extra" 0.5 psi is probably from a minor throttle closure event. At least, that's my guess...
As far as the pressure oscillation goes, remember that the air is moving across the sensor and the pressure will naturally vary due to the pressure waves, boundary layer, turbulence, and flow separation -- so it will never be a constant static pressure. You can also see the oscillation in the stock datalog.
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      03-07-2009, 08:20 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usc335 View Post
I do believe that the 16 psi spike on the datalog (remember that's in the intercooler charge pipe) is from a throttle closure because my boost gauge only read a little over 15 psi peak hold. .

There is definitely a throttle closure around 4000 rpm as evidenced by this BT datalog I did of actual boost versus target boost.

You can see that when boost overshot the target, the throttle plate closed (look at the dip on the red line) momentarily to correct it.

Also shows that the Procede does allow the ECU to intervene when necessary and did not compromise this safety feature.

The boost values are in kilopascals, not psi, and full throttle has been scaled to show as 100%.


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      03-07-2009, 08:35 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runningman View Post
The lines look pretty squiggly, even on map 0. Is that a tuning problem or a measuring problem? Also that 16psi boost spike seems pretty scary. What did you do to cause that? Is it something that will be fixed in future maps?
I suspect that when the sampling rate of your software, is high, your lines will tend to look coarser since you are capturing finer detail.

Slower sampling rate graphs will tend to look smoother since they miss caputuring as many data points and extrapolate linearly between them.

The time stamps on my BT logs are about 0.03 seconds apart.....that's 3/100 of a second or about 33 samples per second if I am reading things correctly.

Very fast.
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