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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > BT scan of E90 335 with JB+ (code thrown)



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      03-24-2009, 09:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It doesn't? Are you sure?

shiv
I can provide BT logs if you'd like? Quite a mystery how it doesn't throw boost target codes isn't it? Microcontrollers FTW.

Mike
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      03-24-2009, 09:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The JB+ is adjustable from ~1.75psi over stock, to ~4.75psi over stock, using the blue adjustment dial.

Default is 2.75-3psi, so there is plenty of room to go down as needed. We may change the default suggestion to +2psi.

Mike
so what was the default on before?
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      03-24-2009, 09:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The JB+ is adjustable from ~1.75psi over stock, to ~4.75psi over stock, using the blue adjustment dial.

Default is 2.75-3psi, so there is plenty of room to go down as needed. We may change the default suggestion to +2psi.

Mike
Thanks for clearing that up
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      03-24-2009, 09:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillLee View Post
so what was the default on before?
~2.75 - 3.0
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      03-24-2009, 09:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
I can provide BT logs if you'd like? Quite a mystery how it doesn't throw boost target codes isn't it? Microcontrollers FTW.

Mike
It's not a mystery at all. But it trades boost pressure codes for tuner manipulation codes. It's also no mystery why you guys are pushing the BT software with it. I just question your testing mothodology that had you conclude that it is diagnostically invisible at the default setting. It took me a couple of minutes to see that it wasn't. And now people have to deal with making even less power than they thought at the time of purchase. Or pay another $300 for the BT software.
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      03-24-2009, 09:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
LOL if the JB+ @ 2.75psi default throws the code you can bet the SSTT @ 3.5psi does. At least with the JB+ you can adjust the boost level up or down as needed.

Mike
+1. The SSTT threw a code for at least two people on 1Addicts.
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      03-24-2009, 09:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
~2.75 - 3.0
lol i just read it in the post i quoted, my bad.
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      03-24-2009, 09:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It's not a mystery at all. But it trades boost pressure codes for tuner manipulation codes. It's also no mystery why you guys are pushing the BT software with it. I just question your testing mothodology that had you conclude that it is diagnostically invisible at the default setting. It took me a couple of minutes to see that it wasn't. And now people have to deal with making even less power than they thought at the time of purchase. Or pay another $300 for the BT software.
Without knowing the details it is impossible to determine what the issue was here. It's equally as likely this poster removed the tmap sensor with the ECU awake and threw off the calibration. We have 20-30 scans showing no detection codes so it needs to be fully looked in to.

The nice thing is the BT tool is easy to get and if more people report detection codes we'll simply suggest people run 2psi instead of 2.75psi. A lot of members here paid $595 for a tune that is stuck at 3.5psi and are basically screwed now. At least with the JB+ IF (that is a big IF) 2.75psi is over the limit on the new ECU versions then they can roll boost down a bit.

And of course they also get 100% trade up credit to the JB3 (which would be about only $300 more) if they want to make a lot more power under the limit.

Mike
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      03-24-2009, 10:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Without knowing the details it is impossible to determine what the issue was here. It's equally as likely this poster removed the tmap sensor with the ECU awake and threw off the calibration. We have 20-30 scans showing no detection codes so it needs to be fully looked in to.

The nice thing is the BT tool is easy to get and if more people report detection codes we'll simply suggest people run 2psi instead of 2.75psi. A lot of members here paid $595 for a tune that is stuck at 3.5psi and are basically screwed now. At least with the JB+ IF (that is a big IF) 2.75psi is over the limit on the new ECU versions then they can roll boost down a bit.

And of course they also get 100% trade up credit to the JB3 (which would be about only $300 more) if they want to make a lot more power under the limit.

Mike
The problem you are seeing with the jb+ is caused by two things:

1) The slew rate that Terry is using for MAP attenutation

2) The recent rise in ambient temps. I'm guessing most testing was done in the winter. There is a scalar miscalculation when you apply a global non-RPM dependant MAP trim that brings you a few steps closer to the tripping the manipulation code. Closer than you once thought, at least. The SSTT didn't have this problem since it was a passive device that just applied a straight MAP signal trim independant of IAT or time under boost.

Shiv
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      03-24-2009, 10:43 PM   #32
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Dont you have some other threads to jack?

I have post 29.2 software and running the JB+ at max and never had one code.
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      03-24-2009, 10:49 PM   #33
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I know that a lot of people with the sstt didnt throw codes. The sstt imo was stronger than jb+ in default setting. It was when i turned it to full boost that it was faster than the sstt. Id hate to spend money on jb+ and run only 1.75 boost. Then have to pay another 300 to have it actually give good power. my 2 cents
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      03-24-2009, 11:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The problem you are seeing with the jb+ is caused by two things:

1) The slew rate that Terry is using for MAP attenutation

2) The recent rise in ambient temps. I'm guessing most testing was done in the winter. There is a scalar miscalculation when you apply a global non-RPM dependant MAP trim that brings you a few steps closer to the tripping the manipulation code. Closer than you once thought, at least. The SSTT didn't have this problem since it was a passive device that just applied a straight MAP signal trim independant of IAT or time under boost.

Shiv
More pure speculation disguised as fact. A few posts ago we were altering IAT? The JB+ samples base baro and monitors IAT to preserve the boost targets. Colder weather results in LESS boost and no change to diagnostic invisibility.

Mike
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      03-24-2009, 11:04 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
More pure speculation disguised as fact. A few posts ago we were altering IAT? The JB+ samples base baro and monitors IAT to preserve the boost targets. Colder weather results in LESS boost and no change to diagnostic invisibility.

Mike
Actually, I didn't say it does alter IAT. I said "if" it does. With the speed at which Terry updates chips these days, anything I say could be outdated. I think the in field customer results have proven that 100% invisibility to be a mistruth. So instead of arguing with me, you might want to get to find out why. I provided some info that Terry might find useful based upon our TMAP/IAT testing months back. He can ignore it if he wants. Doesn't bother me either way.

Shiv
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      03-24-2009, 11:10 PM   #36
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I have been driving very hard at 75% with no codes. Furthermore, I think it is a small percentile that are experiencing codes. The only time I saw the code was all out racing at 4000+ ft elevation. Down near sea level, I haven't been able to trigger the manipulation code. I can't imagine it triggering at default settings.
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      03-24-2009, 11:13 PM   #37
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i really need to get my BT up and running and see if im throwing codes. im v32.1 with my jb+ at default setting
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      03-24-2009, 11:14 PM   #38
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I am in the camp that says it is not a bad idea to employ some method to read and clear codes if you are running any tune; from a safety, diagnostic and warranty perspective.
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      03-24-2009, 11:39 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Actually, I didn't say it does alter IAT. I said "if" it does. With the speed at which Terry updates chips these days, anything I say could be outdated. I think the in field customer results have proven that 100% invisibility to be a mistruth. So instead of arguing with me, you might want to get to find out why. I provided some info that Terry might find useful based upon our TMAP/IAT testing months back. He can ignore it if he wants. Doesn't bother me either way.

Shiv
You pretty much implied that the JB+ was altering IAT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It doesn't work that way Mike. If the JB+ alters IAT (unlike the SSTT).....
and then followed that up with this when I said it didn't
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It doesn't? Are you sure?
I think to anybody that is outright saying it does alter IAT, but hey my perception of reality may be flawed.

The other issue is that it just seem that you jump at every little thing. You have no comments when people have no codes, nice dynos, or positive reviews. The second there is a perception of a problem you are all over the thread like a rabid attack dog, and then when somebody calls you on it you always default to the .... I am just providing technical info..

I am sure a lot of users appreciate and respect your insight and experience but your approach leaves a lot to be desired.

Today we had a post about one of your customers who threw the manupulation code with the Procede.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244318

2D25
2D25 manipulation cover, maximum air mass
Error will not cause a warning light
Error is not currently present
Test conditions have been completed
Short circuit or signal interruption

Did you see me going into that thread saying inflammatory things. No, as that is not my style as I actually try and stay out of your threads, as to me thats not proper business etiquette. There was an issue, you offered advice on the fix and it can be left at that. No need for argument. The fact is the PRocede threw the code and in that case was not diagnostically invisible..

Your attitude in that thread was the following....
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
No harm done. Just clear it all and be on your way. As for the manipulation code, just make sure you are running doomsday map with default settings. But you probably don't care about that anymore given your ability to clear codes now.
So I am puzzled. When the procede throws a manipulation code you dismiss it and basically tell your customer not to care as he has the BT tool now, but when a BMS product throws a code you feel the need to post. You have more posts in this thread then you do in the thread where your customer had an issue?? That just doesn't seem right? Seems you spend more time in BMS/JB3 threads then addressing your own customers problems. To each his own I guess...

Mike
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      03-24-2009, 11:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Today we had a post about one of your customers who threw the manupulation code with the Procede.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244318

2D25
2D25 manipulation cover, maximum air mass
Error will not cause a warning light
Error is not currently present
Test conditions have been completed
Short circuit or signal interruption

Did you see me going into that thread saying inflammatory things. No, as that is not my style as I actually try and stay out of your threads, as to me thats not proper business etiquette. There was an issue, you offered advice on the fix and it can be left at that. No need for argument. The fact is the PRocede threw the code and in that case was not diagnostically invisible...

Your attitude in that thread was the following....

So I am puzzled. When the procede throws a manipulation code you dismiss it and basically tell your customer not to care as he has the BT tool now, but when a BMS product throws a code you feel the need to post. You have more posts in this thread then you do in the thread where your customer had an issue?? That just doesn't seem right? Seems you spend more time in BMS/JB3 threads then addressing your own customers problems. To each his own I guess...

Mike
Yep, that PROcede threw a manipulation code. Unless I'm mistaken, we did not even confirm that the OP was even running a Doomsday map at the default setting (which is required for diagnostic invisibility).

Also, the only reason you see me participating more in BMS/JB3 threads than PROcede threads is because there is more misinformation in them. Just look at them. And I'm a sucker for squashing misinformation when I see it. I know this bothers you and others at times. And for that, I'm sorry. We love educated customers (even if they are not ours). And we love it when they question us. Just makes the exchange of info more beneficial to everyone.

Shiv
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      03-25-2009, 03:20 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Actually, I didn't say it does alter IAT. I said "if" it does. With the speed at which Terry updates chips these days, anything I say could be outdated. I think the in field customer results have proven that 100% invisibility to be a mistruth. So instead of arguing with me, you might want to get to find out why. I provided some info that Terry might find useful based upon our TMAP/IAT testing months back. He can ignore it if he wants. Doesn't bother me either way.
Shiv
You pretty much tried to make people think that it does...Don't even try to deny it, its pretty obvious. Poor business ethics at work again...

If This doesn't bother you, why are you still talking crap on all of these BMS threads . Wait, is it because they came out with a product that is better priced, and makes more power, and took your place on the best selling series of tunes? Your desperate attempts to scare people out of buying BMS products after they took over the market with the JB3 is disgusting, and truly pitiful

Terry is releasing the Beta maps to customers with the advice of only trying them if you buy the BT scanner tool (which is worth every penny imho). People who are running these maps understand that they are field testers, and have bought a chip burner with that understanding...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
You pretty much implied that the JB+ was altering IAT.

and then followed that up with this when I said it didn't

I think to anybody that is outright saying it does alter IAT, but hey my perception of reality may be flawed.

The other issue is that it just seem that you jump at every little thing. You have no comments when people have no codes, nice dynos, or positive reviews. The second there is a perception of a problem you are all over the thread like a rabid attack dog, and then when somebody calls you on it you always default to the .... I am just providing technical info..

I am sure a lot of users appreciate and respect your insight and experience but your approach leaves a lot to be desired.
He was definitely trying to make everyone beleive that IAT bullshit he is trying to spread...

I never see shiv in a positive review thread of a BMS product... He only seems to be in threads where people are having a problem with the BMS product line... I wonder why that is

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Yep, that PROcede threw a manipulation code. Unless I'm mistaken, we did not even confirm that the OP was even running a Doomsday map at the default setting (which is required for diagnostic invisibility).

Also, the only reason you see me participating more in BMS/JB3 threads than PROcede threads is because there is more misinformation in them. Just look at them. And I'm a sucker for squashing misinformation when I see it. I know this bothers you and others at times. And for that, I'm sorry. We love educated customers (even if they are not ours). And we love it when they question us. Just makes the exchange of info more beneficial to everyone.

Shiv
You are easy to see through... You know the reason why Mike brought that up was to show how he had the choice to post and talk shit about his competitor, but he did not. The reason why he didn't was because he want to keep a high set of business ethics, not talk shit about the competitors products when people need help. You, on the other hand, spread false information about your BMS like trying to make everyone think that it is true...you tried to spread your bullshit lies in this thread by trying to make people beleive that JB+ manipulates IAT. I am sure you know more about the products than the people who design and sell it for their living...

You're a sucker for squashing false information when you see it? You're spreading false information on this very thread....

All hail Shivs "game changer" that doesn't make any more power, yet he claims is the holy grail of tuning... Their is no misinformation in that thread
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      03-25-2009, 03:42 AM   #42
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This is not good to know as jb+ owner....

gotta order bt scan tool then...damn!
wanna aplit the cost?
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      03-25-2009, 07:27 AM   #43
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Mike,

While I'm not wanting to be part of the tuner wars, I do think now that there is more than one report, that the main burgertuning web site and others selling the jb+ should remove this wording until you figure out what is going on: "Does not trigger codes".

It seems only fair to people, that may be bringing their jb+ car in to get service at a bmw dealership.
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      03-25-2009, 07:59 AM   #44
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Lets not jump to any conclusions, Im not saying it does or doesn't throw codes, but just because one person had a code doesn't mean we all are going to throw codes. Let Terry and Mike have time to speak to the OP and see what exactly happen.

I have been running at 75% on the a 05/08 build with the very latest software. I run 93 octane and the outside temps have been 80+ without any codes.
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