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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Which upgraded intercooler w/ NON-M-Tec front bumper



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      03-30-2009, 05:41 AM   #23
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I have Spearco & abslutely love it.
+1

Only minor cutting was required on my non-M front bumper.

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      03-30-2009, 08:07 AM   #24
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AA is having a Group buy now! Go for it, it's an amazing unit. The price is only $900!
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      03-30-2009, 08:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
I believe Sniz was also running UR cold air intake at the time of this test.
we have gotten the same results on the stock airbox and shiv has gotten the same results on the DCI. a cold air intake will only make a minor difference in end AIT #'s.
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      03-30-2009, 10:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
we have gotten the same results on the stock airbox and shiv has gotten the same results on the DCI. a cold air intake will only make a minor difference in end AIT #'s.
I whole heartedly agree with TT here.
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      03-30-2009, 12:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
I whole heartedly agree with TT here.
I use a real nice calculator check it out:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm
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      03-30-2009, 12:23 PM   #28
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yup I loved my Helix FMIC.

Former....you realize that you cant directly compare any test I did and test you did right?
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      03-30-2009, 01:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTurboBullett View Post
I use a real nice calculator check it out:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-turbotemp.htm
Awesome calculator

But I still think that the intake temp makes a significant difference, albeit much less of an effect than a larger FMIC.

Using the calculator if the input temperature is 100 degrees the IAT (plenum temp) is 121 degrees, so this would simulate stock or a "cold air" intake like RR, UR, injen that attempts to draw in cooler air. Compare that to an input temperature of 135 degrees the IAT is 131 degrees.

So if you are using a DCI that is drawing in air that is 35 degrees hotter than a "cold air" intake type set-up then you have a resulting IAT that is 10 degrees higher.
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      03-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
Awesome calculator

But I still think that the intake temp makes a significant difference, albeit much less of an effect than a larger FMIC.

Using the calculator if the input temperature is 100 degrees the IAT (plenum temp) is 121 degrees, so this would simulate stock or a "cold air" intake like RR, UR, injen that attempts to draw in cooler air. Compare that to an input temperature of 135 degrees the IAT is 131 degrees.

So if you are using a DCI that is drawing in air that is 35 degrees hotter than a "cold air" intake type set-up then you have a resulting IAT that is 10 degrees higher.
yeah thats about right but... it will work the same way when looking at starting and ending temps ie start higher end higher. one IC parameter that can be most influenced is intercooler efficiency where the intercoolers work better with larger temperature differentials between charge and ambient temps.
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      03-31-2009, 05:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
Awesome calculator

But I still think that the intake temp makes a significant difference, albeit much less of an effect than a larger FMIC.

Using the calculator if the input temperature is 100 degrees the IAT (plenum temp) is 121 degrees, so this would simulate stock or a "cold air" intake like RR, UR, injen that attempts to draw in cooler air. Compare that to an input temperature of 135 degrees the IAT is 131 degrees.

So if you are using a DCI that is drawing in air that is 35 degrees hotter than a "cold air" intake type set-up then you have a resulting IAT that is 10 degrees higher.
The difference in your scenario results in only 3 degrees F AITs. Please realize the difference is rediculously low. For the extra money the UR costs, you could buy the DCIs and have half the cost for a new IC. Really I cooled my AITs an average of 39 degrees F with the Active Autowerke intercooler and you are arguing for 3 degrees?
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      03-31-2009, 10:16 AM   #32
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I have a Helix I should be putting on my car in the next week or two!!!
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      03-31-2009, 05:41 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
The difference in your scenario results in only 3 degrees F AITs. Please realize the difference is rediculously low. For the extra money the UR costs, you could buy the DCIs and have half the cost for a new IC. Really I cooled my AITs an average of 39 degrees F with the Active Autowerke intercooler and you are arguing for 3 degrees?
Where did you get 3 degrees F. The calculations using the calculator in the link got 10 degrees F. 10 degrees F is significant.

Again, I'm not saying a cold air intake is more important than an FMIC for lower IAT. The upgraded FMIC is going to lower the IATs more than the intake, but if you alredy have a bigger FMIC (like me and many people on this board) then colder air into the intake will further decrease IATs.
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      04-01-2009, 06:19 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
Where did you get 3 degrees F. The calculations using the calculator in the link got 10 degrees F. 10 degrees F is significant.

Again, I'm not saying a cold air intake is more important than an FMIC for lower IAT. The upgraded FMIC is going to lower the IATs more than the intake, but if you alredy have a bigger FMIC (like me and many people on this board) then colder air into the intake will further decrease IATs.
What numbers are you putting in? I am done arguing in every thread with you juicer. Helix has done extensive testing and still says the difference is minimal. How are you going to argue with the pros? Just leave it alone because simply put you are wrong here.
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      04-01-2009, 07:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
What numbers are you putting in? I am done arguing in every thread with you juicer. Helix has done extensive testing and still says the difference is minimal. How are you going to argue with the pros? Just leave it alone because simply put you are wrong here.
Put 100 in as the IAT. Press enter on the first tab. Then Press enter on the second tab. You get 121 degrees F.

Now, put 135 in as the IAT.Press enter on the first tab. Then Press enter on the second tab. You get 131 degrees F.

121-131=10
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      04-01-2009, 08:18 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
Put 100 in as the IAT. Press enter on the first tab. Then Press enter on the second tab. You get 121 degrees F.

Now, put 135 in as the IAT.Press enter on the first tab. Then Press enter on the second tab. You get 131 degrees F.

121-131=10
Are you kidding me? A difference of 35 degrees F? There is no way that will happen and I keep telling you this. Next, you are using 80% for the stock IC? It has shown 60% at best. If you go with a generous 20 degrees F difference, then you come up with 10 degrees difference of AITs on a stock car. Now try the 90% efficiency on a car with an upgraded IC and the correct pressure loss of 0.5 psi. Hmmm, 2 degrees F but the intercooler dropped the AITs an average of 39 degrees on my car. CAIs do nothing on turbo charged cars for IATs. Intakes are to allow the turbos to pull enough air. Intercoolers are to cool IATs.

I will test your CAI if you send it to me and log runs to show you are simply wrong.
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      04-01-2009, 08:28 AM   #37
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CAIs do nothing on turbo charged cars for IATs. Intakes are to allow the turbos to pull enough air. Intercoolers are to cool IATs.

I will test your CAI if you send it to me and log runs to show you are simply wrong.

really? damn, all the turbo race cars I see must be wasting their time pulling air from outside the engine bay then.
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      04-01-2009, 08:46 AM   #38
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really? damn, all the turbo race cars I see must be wasting their time pulling air from outside the engine bay then.
Are you kidding me? We are not a race car and they are looking for tiny advantages over long, long runs. Do the math and you will see. I will do that testing to prove it if you send me a CAI. Helix already did the testing, but no one will listen. Look at almost every supra with gigantic T-72s or T-88s and you will see the same thing. You guys just won't listen even when facts are placed in front of you!
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      04-01-2009, 11:04 AM   #39
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really? damn, all the turbo race cars I see must be wasting their time pulling air from outside the engine bay then.
Wouldn't it be hella-ghetto to remove one of our headlights for a ram-air intake like the supras??

Lol - I should make a photoshop of that
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      04-01-2009, 11:53 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
Are you kidding me? We are not a race car and they are looking for tiny advantages over long, long runs. Do the math and you will see. I will do that testing to prove it if you send me a CAI. Helix already did the testing, but no one will listen. Look at almost every supra with gigantic T-72s or T-88s and you will see the same thing. You guys just won't listen even when facts are placed in front of you!
I'm listening. I just dont believe that ingesting substaintially hotter air pre turbo is in any way a better idea than ingesting colder air. Turbo cars run better in cold weather for a reason. If I can use 50 degree air from outside rather than say 100 degree air under the hood....I want the 50 degree air.

You at least mentioned that race cars are looking for advantages, so that must mean a well designed CAI has its advantages...no? I want advantages too, but maybe thats just me.

now if the CAI design chokes the turbo's b/c it doesnt allow enough air to flow, then thats a bad thing.

Best case scenario - cold air intake with ample flow (can we agree on that at least?)

as for the Supra's.....a lot of them are running a straight pipe out the passenger headlight to suck in ambient temp air. Please dont tell me this is for a ram air effect. This is at the track where the headlight is not missed, but if you could do this on a daily basis and keep your headlight obviously they would. For street driving the owner of this Supra removes that black coupler and the extra pipe and puts his cone filter there.

such as:

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      04-01-2009, 11:57 AM   #41
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Wouldn't it be hella-ghetto to remove one of our headlights for a ram-air intake like the supras??

Lol - I should make a photoshop of that
please do
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      04-02-2009, 05:32 AM   #42
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Sniz, if the temperature difference was 50 degrees, then yes. I can tell you after data logging AITs for a long time now that the only difference you will ever see is when the engine is standing still for a while. Once you pass any air across this Active Autowerke intercooler, then AITs drop to within 10-15 degrees of ambient every single time.
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