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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Cylinder Head Port & Polish



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      03-27-2009, 10:56 AM   #1
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Cylinder Head Port & Polish

I spoke to Chris at VAC Motorsports located in Philadelphia today about port & polishing the head for my 330. They haven't done one YET, but they have one coming in to be done in the next few weeks. They have many years of experience doing entire engines for street and racing. They have had quite a few inquiries from all over the world for head work on the NA e90 engines.
Here's what Chris told me. The port and polish is $2k that includes a 6-angle valve job on the intake and full radius on the outlet. If you want to do larger valves, they are approximately $720 per set. A full stage 3 head is $3500.
He doesn't have any idea of HP gain yet on our engines because they haven't done one yet. When he gets the figures, he'll let me know. They do have S54 dynos that showed a 35-40hp gain with 40 ft lbs of torque for a port/polish and larger valves. That's the only thing we have to go by right now.
VAC is a full-line aftermarket supplier. I have NO affiliation with them. They can do anything when it comes to race/street set-up. They are hooked up with high performance parts supplier's from all over the world. They can do a full, custom rebuild with connecting rods, cranks, pistons, heads, headers, etc.
If you have further questions or would like to contact them, here's their information. Just reference e90post so them know we're here.
http://www.vacmotorsports.com/
sales@vacmotorsports.com
Again, ask for Chris
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      03-27-2009, 11:28 AM   #2
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that price sounds about right for a 6 cylinder. The only issue I'd have with a 6 angle valve job, is that it can make the valve/seat contact area smaller than a 3 angle, depending on how it's cut. it will flow better, but might not last as long (again, depending on how they cut the seats). And they should give you flow test numbers before and after the porting.

the downside is you usually have to take the cylinder head off on your own and send it to them, so your car would be down for a few weeks. Then you have to reinstall it with new gaskets and seals when it comes back, so unless you can do it yourself, you have to add the R&R costs for the cylinder head and related parts, so it starts looking pretty expensive.

on top of that, there really isn't any way to custom tune the engine software to the new head. The factory software will adjust to a point, and make more power, but you won't get be able to take full advantage of it unless you are able to get a custom tune.
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      03-27-2009, 12:05 PM   #3
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According to the guy who swapped his manifold off his 325 for one off a 330i, the heads are already polished and port matched so you would just be wasting a bunch of money for nothing. The only way to get real power gains from one of these motors is to buy the stroker kit which is rediculously expensive.
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      03-27-2009, 12:14 PM   #4
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Nice! All that is needed is a set of cams which i'm not sure anyone makes yet.

I know JE has pistons for the 335i and i'm sure they can make a set for the N/A cars.
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      03-27-2009, 02:12 PM   #5
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I agree with Mike y With out a tune you cannot really take advantage of the work you had done..
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      03-27-2009, 02:40 PM   #6
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Headwork will be great, but if there is no way to tune the ECU, then there is no point. I would like to also see some ITBs, but if there is no tuning solution, piggyback, or flash, then there is nothing that can be done. All these N/A mods will be great, like cams, but there really isnt a market for it because most people who want power would go F/I and get a 335i, and these companies wont waste their time and money on R&D for the N/A motors. For the N/A enthusiasts, i think great mods would be an inexpensive header, cylinder heads, cams, underdrive pullies, and a tune. Try it, and tell us your results.
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      03-27-2009, 10:31 PM   #7
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I know this is expensive to get not a lot of HP compared to FI engines, but I just got tired of everyone on this part of the forum looking for more HP without any options.
VAC is going to be doing a tune as well. You have to in order to make it worth while.
You could do a core charge for a head so the turnaround would be much quicker. Of course you're going to have to pay someone to do the work, unless you can do it yourself.
As for the stock heads being port and polished - I don't think BMW is going to do that from the factory. It'll be too cost prohibitive to do that on a mass production car and with an engine that isn't hand built.
I am figuring with an intake, port & polish, exhaust and tune the 330 should put out very close to 300hp.
Plain and simply, HP = $.
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      03-27-2009, 10:52 PM   #8
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Does your guy have any idea about how the valvetronic works? With lift at idle being .17mm at idle on the six cylinder, he would REALLY have to know what he's doing to keep the tolerances and clearances the same or else you'll end up with a really rough running engine.
dvpouldar26, ITBs wouldn't work on these engines based on the fact that the throttle is wide open under most driving situations (idle, cruise, full throttle), and only really closes in cold start situations.
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      03-27-2009, 11:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalTech View Post
Does your guy have any idea about how the valvetronic works? With lift at idle being .17mm at idle on the six cylinder, he would REALLY have to know what he's doing to keep the tolerances and clearances the same or else you'll end up with a really rough running engine.
dvpouldar26, ITBs wouldn't work on these engines based on the fact that the throttle is wide open under most driving situations (idle, cruise, full throttle), and only really closes in cold start situations.
I have no idea. Shoot him an email and ask.
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      03-27-2009, 11:38 PM   #10
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I'm not really interested in getting any work done, so I'm not going to waste his time with my email. I would just make sure before handing him your money that he actually knows how these engines work. This isn't a civic, or sb350. These engine just don't work the same.
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      03-28-2009, 10:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift330 View Post
According to the guy who swapped his manifold off his 325 for one off a 330i, the heads are already polished and port matched so you would just be wasting a bunch of money for nothing. The only way to get real power gains from one of these motors is to buy the stroker kit which is rediculously expensive.
Who makes a stroker kit for our engines? I stroked my chev truck from 350 to 383, quite common, but I love the results. I know its apples to oranges, but there is no replacement for displacement!
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      03-28-2009, 12:26 PM   #12
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I think it's better to just find a custom supercharger set-up. Most bang for the buck.
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      03-28-2009, 04:00 PM   #13
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I think it's better to just find a custom supercharger set-up. Most bang for the buck.
No one is going to make it. You're going to have to be willing to blow-up your engine as a prototype and if it does make it through the prototype stage then you're going to severely limit engine life.

As for the stroker kit - I think it's Haman that makes it and it's really expensive. I think the kit is $6000 and you get 306hp out of it.
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      03-28-2009, 06:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
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No one is going to make it. You're going to have to be willing to blow-up your engine as a prototype and if it does make it through the prototype stage then you're going to severely limit engine life.

As for the stroker kit - I think it's Haman that makes it and it's really expensive. I think the kit is $6000 and you get 306hp out of it.
6k for 306, that's almost as good as a 335. But i guess without a turbo, na tuning is still very limited.
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      03-28-2009, 08:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Who makes a stroker kit for our engines? I stroked my chev truck from 350 to 383, quite common, but I love the results. I know its apples to oranges, but there is no replacement for displacement!
A German company called Kelleners (SP?) I'm pretty sure it was to stroke it out to 3.2L and is expensive as hell.

Here's the site: http://www.kelleners-sport.com/english/index_d.htm
Quote:
K.sport engine kit for 330i
increase to 3,2 ccm,306 PS and 347 n/m.
changes:crankshaft,pistons,connecting rod
ECU upgrade (incl. Dynorun before and after conversion.).
Stroke 93,00 mm und bore 85,00 mm. the topspeed will raise by approx. 28 km/h.
110090101E € 11.300,-
^ Look at the price!
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      03-29-2009, 05:20 AM   #16
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Noellemotors (the founder worked for years by alpina as engine developer) offers a simular kit for the 325i...

Quote:
Motorbeschreibung 2.133:
3,2l Motor (Basis BMW N52 B25)
für folgende BMW Fahrzeuge:
BMW E90- E93 325i
BMW E60, E61 525i
mit Schalt- und Automatikgetriebe

Änderungen gegenüber der Serie:
1 Kurbelwelle
6 Kolben
6 Pleuel
2 Verbindungsrohre
2 Sportkatalysatoren
1 Saugrohr
1 Ölpumpe

Technische Motordaten:
Zylinderzahl 6
Bohrung 85,00 mm
Hub 93,00 mm
Hubraum 3165 ccm
Verdichtungsverhältnis 10,8
Motorleistung:
Leistung 306 PS/ 6700 min-1
Drehmoment 347 Nm/ 2900 min-1
(Voraussetzung ist die volle Serienleistung)

Höchstgeschwindigkeit:
Plus 29 km/h gegenüber der Serie

Preis:
BMW 325i € 11.925,00 komplett montiert ab Werk Buchloe
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      03-29-2009, 08:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift330 View Post
A German company called Kelleners (SP?) I'm pretty sure it was to stroke it out to 3.2L and is expensive as hell.

Here's the site: http://www.kelleners-sport.com/english/index_d.htm


^ Look at the price!
DAMN!
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      03-31-2009, 07:45 PM   #18
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Isn't the european version of the 330i direct injected and produces 272hp?

That means the stroker kit only yields 34hp.
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      04-01-2009, 09:17 AM   #19
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Isn't the european version of the 330i direct injected and produces 272hp?

That means the stroker kit only yields 34hp.
Noelle motors modify the N52 2.5 liter and N52 3.0 liter to 3.2 liter and 306ps!

That are 88 PS more for the 325i and 34 PS for the 330i!!!

0-100km/h in about 5.5sec!
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      04-01-2009, 10:02 AM   #20
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and the torque only increases to 255 ft-lb

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift330 View Post
A German company called Kelleners (SP?) I'm pretty sure it was to stroke it out to 3.2L and is expensive as hell.

Here's the site: http://www.kelleners-sport.com/english/index_d.htm


^ Look at the price!
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      04-01-2009, 10:02 AM   #21
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Thanks to the OP for trying this mod out!
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      04-01-2009, 10:41 AM   #22
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and the torque only increases to 255 ft-lb
Yeah but just a port and polish (wich it has from the factory) is supposed to gain 35-40HP and 40lbs trq
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