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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > PROcede Woes: Misfire+Dynos Inside



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      04-06-2009, 11:43 AM   #1
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PROcede Woes: Misfire+Dynos Inside

JB+ to PROcede Transition:
So I've had JB+ in my car since the Beta release and had 2D25 code thrown on the default setting. Car felt strong and butt dyno indicated significant hp gain but I was still not satisfied, BT tool in hand I cleared the codes, turned the JB+ to max let it adapt for about 100 miles but it did not feel much faster than default if at all, but no code thrown this time JB+ is my first tune. I sought out to acquire more HP on my visit out to California and visited Shiv who graciously let me sample RevII on his own car. This meeting resulted in the purchase of a new tune. The reasons I chose PROcede is the product backing/customer support from Shiv and the features: CANbus Integration, remote map switching, PNP Install, top speed delimiter, user adjustables, and data logging.

Install:
Went smoothly besides dropping a socket and having a fun time retrieving it with the magnetic tool retrieval. The video instructions were clear and easy to follow and took about an hour total including removal of the JB+. After install the car started right up w/o any CEL or SES.

PROcede Woes:
-Immediately after install and initial start up the cooling fan started to spin at max rpms. After a shut down and restart this did not happen again.
-When driving around I hear a faint whining sound kind of reminds me of a supercharger from 1k to 2.5k rpms after that you can't hear it over the engine noise.
-Misfire and limp mode occured after driving easily for 12 miles to let it adapt, the misfires were greatest when Vanos kicks in at 4k and at the top of the rev range.

Solutions and Dyno:
-From talking to Shiv about the problems I was having he suggested that none of the problems I was having was due to improper install. The codes I threw were 2AAF FP plausibility, 29D2 misfire cylinder 6, and 2EE6 Cooling fluid sensor, measurement range. This was day 1. Shiv suggested clearing the codes to see which ones come back. I did this through the CANbus feature and verified it with the BT that it worked. Since then the only code I get is the cylinder 6 misfire.
-I found that turning the user torque down to 60% the misfire was more subdued and would no longer limp the car. I did this for the time being to get by while I tried to figure out the misfire. I had a dyno day scheduled for this Saturday and with user torque on 60% put down 326whp/332wtq which is +40whp/40wtq gain over the valet mode of: 287whp/292wtq. I am not too unhappy with the result as the car did misfire as shown in graph.
-On Sunday I set out to diagnose the misfire by swapping the coil from cylinder 6 to cylinder 1 and setting user torque to the default 90%. A quick WOT run right after resulted in a limp. BT tool pulled codes and revealed my answer the misfire was now in cylinder 1 and only cylinder 1. Diagnosis bad/weak coil. So I will be acquiring a new coil probably from Tischer this next week and redyno at 90% user torque.

I have still yet to figure out what the supercharger whine is from so if anyone has any other ideas for that let me know, I will probably try to uninstall the RevII, inspect for loose connections and reinstall but would appreciate it if someone could pinpoint this question or say that its normal, definitely didn't notice it when it was stock or with JB+.

I would like to thank Shiv for his customer support and extending his $695 price to JB+ users and Colletti Motorsports in the Dayton, OH area for putting on a free dyno day to WORSCCA members. If anyone is looking to dyno their car in the Dayton/Cinci area I would recommend you giving them a call with their very competitive baseline dyno price of just $50. Thank you for reading and please chime in if you have any thoughts on diagnosing the whining sound.

Other relevant car information:
MSD80 ECU/Don't know prog
Sunoco 94 Octane
Mileage approx: 5000
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      04-06-2009, 11:51 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkyplaynazn View Post
JB+ to PROcede Transition:
-Immediately after install and initial start up the cooling fan started to spin at max rpms. After a shut down and restart this did not happen again.
Had this happen to me too... Is that normal?
Sorry can't really help you with the other problems
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      04-06-2009, 11:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Had this happen to me too... Is that normal?
Sorry can't really help you with the other problems
The fan at full blast on first startup is very common, has to do with the ecu connectors being disconnected, its some sort of "safe" mode on first startup. It will only do it once right after the install, and only on some cars.
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      04-06-2009, 11:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkyplaynazn View Post


PROcede Woes:
-Immediately after install and initial start up the cooling fan started to spin at max rpms. After a shut down and restart this did not happen again.
-When driving around I hear a faint whining sound kind of reminds me of a supercharger from 1k to 2.5k rpms after that you can't hear it over the engine noise.
-Misfire and limp mode occured after driving easily for 12 miles to let it adapt, the misfires were greatest when Vanos kicks in at 4k and at the top of the rev range.

Solutions and Dyno:
-From talking to Shiv about the problems I was having he suggested that none of the problems I was having was due to improper install. The codes I threw were 2AAF FP plausibility, 29D2 misfire cylinder 6, and 2EE6 Cooling fluid sensor, measurement range. This was day 1. Shiv suggested clearing the codes to see which ones come back. I did this through the CANbus feature and verified it with the BT that it worked. Since then the only code I get is the cylinder 6 misfire.
-I found that turning the user torque down to 60% the misfire was more subdued and would no longer limp the car. I did this for the time being to get by while I tried to figure out the misfire. I had a dyno day scheduled for this Saturday and with user torque on 60% put down 326whp/332wtq which is +40whp/40wtq gain over the valet mode of: 287whp/292wtq. I am not too unhappy with the result as the car did misfire as shown in graph.
-On Sunday I set out to diagnose the misfire by swapping the coil from cylinder 6 to cylinder 1 and setting user torque to the default 90%. A quick WOT run right after resulted in a limp. BT tool pulled codes and revealed my answer the misfire was now in cylinder 1 and only cylinder 1. Diagnosis bad/weak coil. So I will be acquiring a new coil probably from Tischer this next week and redyno at 90% user torque.

I have still yet to figure out what the supercharger whine is from so if anyone has any other ideas for that let me know, I will probably try to uninstall the RevII, inspect for loose connections and reinstall but would appreciate it if someone could pinpoint this question or say that its normal, definitely didn't notice it when it was stock or with JB+.

I would like to thank Shiv for his customer support and extending his $695 price to JB+ users and Colletti Motorsports in the Dayton, OH area for putting on a free dyno day to WORSCCA members. If anyone is looking to dyno their car in the Dayton/Cinci area I would recommend you giving them a call with their very competitive baseline dyno price of just $50. Thank you for reading and please chime in if you have any thoughts on diagnosing the whining sound.

Other relevant car information:
MSD80 ECU/Don't know prog
Sunoco 94 Octane
Mileage approx: 5000
Glad to see you found the cause of the misfire!
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      04-06-2009, 11:57 AM   #5
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The 2EE6 Cooling fluid sensor is probably associated with the cooling fan coming on when you installed first the tune.

FWIW, this happened to me twice during installs with the JB3 and only upon installation. Never came back.

I have read of this happening to a couple of other members as well.

The fuel plausibility code is pretty common as well. I currently run the Procede Stage 1 map, and when I played with Stage 3 (which I am not modded for), I would trip this code once in a while. No such issues running the correct stage 1 map.

The whining sound you hear is most likely turbo spooling.

I get this sound as well, noticeably more so in colder temperatures until the engine heats up.

With the lag-fix features incorporated into these tunes, the wastegates are kept closer to a closed position so as to eliminate turbo-lag from a start. As a result, the turbos are pre-spooled in order to give a more instantaneous response to throttle application.

Overall, it sounds like you only have to worry about the misfire issue which you seem to have isolated by swapping the coils.
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      04-06-2009, 11:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma View Post
The 2EE6 Cooling fluid sensor is probably associated with the cooling fan coming on when you installed first the tune.

FWIW, this happened to me twice during installs with the JB3 and only upon installation. Never came back.

I have read of this happening to a couple of other members as well.

The fuel plausibility code is pretty common as well. I currently run the Procede Stage 1 map, and when I played with Stage 3 (which I am not modded for), I would trip this code once in a while. No such issues running the correct stage 1 map.

The whining sound you hear is most likely turbo spooling.

I get this sound as well, noticeably more so in colder temperatures until the engine heats up.

With the lag-fix features incorporated into these tunes, the wastegates are kept closer to a closed position so as to eliminate turbo-lag from a start. As a result, the turbos are pre-spooled in order to give a more instantaneous response to throttle application.

Overall, it sounds like you only have to worry about the misfire issue which you seem to have isolated by swapping the coils.
+1 !
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      04-06-2009, 11:59 AM   #7
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I reluctantly ask: What is a "Butt Dyno"?

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      04-06-2009, 12:01 PM   #8
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Glad you found the source of the misfire problem. Had to either be a plug or a coil. The fans turning on, as Rixt3r said, happens to some cars after the ECU has been unplugged and plugged back in for the first time. No worries there.

As for the whine, one possibility is that you are just hearing more turbo induction noise since the wastegates are held more closed in the low end with the PROcede's lagfix on. No issues with that. To confirm that as the cause, you can just turn off the lagfix in the User Adjustable menu and see if it goes away. Other than that, there really is no other source for any PROcede-induced noise. If it's still there, just unplug the PROcede. I suspect it will still be there. In that case, it was there all the time and you just noticed it which is pretty common when you add new parts to the car.

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      04-06-2009, 12:02 PM   #9
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Damn.. Ilma beat me too it.

+1 on everything he said

shiv
... in florida, on a dyno, on his iphone
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      04-06-2009, 12:10 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Damn.. Ilma beat me too it.

+1 on everything he said

shiv
... in florida, on a dyno, on his iphone

Lol.....see I do read your posts! I must have learned a few things along the way.
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      04-06-2009, 12:25 PM   #11
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That dyno looks identical to what happened to me...wound up being a bad plug. There is still a slight surge that I haven't figured out. I think it may have to limiting boost/fuel in lower RPMs coupled with the changeover that happens at 4k? Ever since V2, I have not been completely satisfied with boost behavior especially below 4k.
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      04-06-2009, 12:27 PM   #12
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Good feedback and I commend you for running through your troubleshooting first before coming to the forums to post your findings. Its great you found the culprit ahead of time since just showing that dyno graph alone would have just led to wild speculation.

let us know how your re-dyno comes out.
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      04-06-2009, 12:33 PM   #13
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G/L with the fix Mike, Thanks for letting my borrow your JB+ in the mean time

Shiv, So when Mike gets the coil issue resolved and takes me for a ride can I get the same deal on PROcede?
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      04-06-2009, 12:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Glad you found the source of the misfire problem. Had to either be a plug or a coil. The fans turning on, as Rixt3r said, happens to some cars after the ECU has been unplugged and plugged back in for the first time. No worries there.

As for the whine, one possibility is that you are just hearing more turbo induction noise since the wastegates are held more closed in the low end with the PROcede's lagfix on. No issues with that. To confirm that as the cause, you can just turn off the lagfix in the User Adjustable menu and see if it goes away. Other than that, there really is no other source for any PROcede-induced noise. If it's still there, just unplug the PROcede. I suspect it will still be there. In that case, it was there all the time and you just noticed it which is pretty common when you add new parts to the car.

Shiv
I will try to modify the lag-fix to see if it changes the whining sound, I can hear the turbo induction and the whining sound separately but I will try toggling the lag fix to see if it does anything. Not that worried about this issue, I'm sure I won't be able to hear it at all once I get an exhaust. Glad to hear that the cooling fan spinning up is normal and no it has not come back on subsequent restarts.

Shiv, how is the ASR tuning going in Florida? I can't wait to hear some good news on that, hoping you would leak some info. If you are having any direct injection fuel issues e90post member curt2000 has some suggestions. I was talking to him yesterday and he's got some ideas on the stoichiometric air-balance with DI. He said he PM'ed ASR about it.
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      04-06-2009, 12:41 PM   #15
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That whining is normal on any car running more aggressive than stock wastegate closure off boost. turbos are spinning faster.
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      04-06-2009, 12:46 PM   #16
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That whining is normal on any car running more aggressive than stock wastegate closure off boost. turbos are spinning faster.
It would be best if he could record a sound clip of it, as there is a difference between turbo whine (see High Boost Turbo Failures) and normal turbo spooling sounds.
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      04-06-2009, 12:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkyplaynazn View Post
Shiv, how is the ASR tuning going in Florida? I can't wait to hear some good news on that, hoping you would leak some info. If you are having any direct injection fuel issues e90post member curt2000 has some suggestions. I was talking to him yesterday and he's got some ideas on the stoichiometric air-balance with DI. He said he PM'ed ASR about it.
Tuning is going great so far. Just ran out of gas on the dyno so we are waiting for some to be delivered to us. Looks like the limit of the fuel system is right around where I calculated it a while back (470-480whp). So we might just limit the race gas map to 450-460whp to play it safe. And then run methanol to make more, if possible. We might be up against a inlet restriction due to those two inlet pipes that connect the airbox to the compressor inlets on either side of the engine (front and back). I'm a little shocked that they are able to support 70-80% more airflow than stock. Whether they can support 100% more airflow is still unknown. Uncharted territory at this moment. Should know more later tonight.

Shiv
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      04-06-2009, 12:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Tuning is going great so far. Just ran out of gas on the dyno so we are waiting for some to be delivered to us. Looks like the limit of the fuel system is right around where I calculated it a while back (470-480whp). So we might just limit the race gas map to 450-460whp to play it safe. And then run methanol to make more, if possible. We might be up against a inlet restriction due to those two inlet pipes that connect the airbox to the compressor inlets on either side of the engine (front and back). I'm a little shocked that they are able to support 70-80% more airflow than stock. Whether they can support 100% more airflow is still unknown. Uncharted territory at this moment. Should know more later tonight.

Shiv
You're talking about adapting the PROcede v3.2 to a Nissan GT-R, right? Sorry, I've been out of the loop lately, since my car has been running so well these days and haven't been checked what's going on as frequently.
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      04-06-2009, 01:06 PM   #19
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hkyplaynazn, I would love to know how diffrent the car feels once you get the coil fixed (w/proceed) as opposed to the JB+? Great to hear about the upgrade, hope all issues will be resolved with the new coil!! I have been toying with the idea of upgrading soon to either the new PROceed or JB3? Are you and curt2000 going to be around Saturday for the Dyno Day, slated at Cincy Speed? It would be great to have some more comparisons, going to have cars there with PROceed, JB3 1.3, JB+, ESS, and others. I didn't know that there was a shop in Dayton with DynoJet. Shiv, does that $695 deal hold for others? Thanks.
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      04-06-2009, 01:30 PM   #20
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No, he's talking about ASR's upgraded turbo 135i that he's tuning right now in Miami, FL
Holy crap! A >520HP (~ 450WHP) BMW 135i????? All I can say is WOW! That thing must run the 1/4 mi. in ~ 10.5 sec...that's just completely nuts!!! Congrats, Shiv!!!
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      04-06-2009, 01:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Septro View Post
Good feedback and I commend you for running through your troubleshooting first before coming to the forums to post your findings. Its great you found the culprit ahead of time since just showing that dyno graph alone would have just led to wild speculation.

let us know how your re-dyno comes out.
Yea, I didn't to turn my post into a JB3 vs PROcede war. Will definitely post up a new dyno once I get a new ign coil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cincy335i View Post
hkyplaynazn, I would love to know how diffrent the car feels once you get the coil fixed (w/proceed) as opposed to the JB+? Great to hear about the upgrade, hope all issues will be resolved with the new coil!! I have been toying with the idea of upgrading soon to either the new PROceed or JB3? Are you and curt2000 going to be around Saturday for the Dyno Day, slated at Cincy Speed? It would be great to have some more comparisons, going to have cars there with PROceed, JB3 1.3, JB+, ESS, and others. I didn't know that there was a shop in Dayton with DynoJet. Shiv, does that $695 deal hold for others? Thanks.
I thought about coming down to check out how everyone else does, but I probably won't shell out $60 for a dyno there when I can get it from a fellow SCCA member/support my local shop for $50 and I have no idea if I would have even received my new coil by then or not. I don't know about that $695 deal still holding now that PROcede is integrated with CANbus its def worth more than just $700 especially once all the features it will enable come online.
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      04-06-2009, 03:22 PM   #22
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Do you get the whining sound at cruise? This seems similar to a sound I have been hearing, and definitely not turbos spooling for me. I hear that too, but this is different.
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