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      04-16-2009, 06:05 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post

What?

You aint even been on any track in your car have you, Hilarious comment

You should have been at the Pod when we all went. Quite a bit of skill involved maximising a cars potential off the line.

Great adrenaline rush too.

And i love track too, still love the drag strip.

Stop slating, start racing
I'm sorry if this is deemed to be off topic or argumentative, but I feel that I must respond to this comment.

I am as entitled to my opinion as anyone on here is and saw fit to post as such. Just because you disagree with it doesn't give you the right to be so damned rude in your response.

I accept, having read Tony's excellent explanation, that there is a degree of skill involved. At least he chose to explain to people.

In response to your statement...' You aint even been on any track in your car have you',how the hell do you know what I have and haven't done in this car or any other? Unlike you, some people don't post every detail of their driving experience on the internet, so don't be so bloody presumptuous.

I shall now retire from this debate.
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      04-16-2009, 06:23 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Anyway, never mind. I guess we are keeping it roughly on topic and friendly!

Thanks for answering tony - that sounds like the thing i have been missing. Odd that i wouldn't ever have dreamed of doing that on my own!

Does a limited slip diff change the way this works at all? Dont get me wrong, i understand what an lsd does and that it would usually only apply for cornering - and fast as well. 

But is there any difference in the way the car handles all that power at the back? Less fishtailing or whatever?

Matt
A limited slip differential will give a different experience on launching, in that it effectively maximises torque to the wheel with most grip.

Imagine this - your car, with standard open differential (ie. no LSD), is stationary on the line, with one wheel on greasy tarmac and the other on a very dry, grippy patch. You put the power down hard and you'll probably find that you get a fair bit of wheelspin from the wheel standing on the greasy bit of tarmac and consequently very little initial forward momentum. That's because on a open differential the power is fed to the wheel with least resistance, or in other words, least amount of grip.

With an LSD, the power is fed to the wheel with the most resistance, or most grip. Given the same situation, you'll find that in this instance you have much greater initial acceleration because power is being fed to the wheel with most grip. There is the potential for much greater traction, with all the consequential benefits that entails.

Under power, sometimes you can feel the torque transferring between the two sides of the rear axle as grip varies between the wheels - this is most noticeable on tarmac with considerably varying degrees of grip, or on leafy roads for example. Sometimes if the driver is very unaware, this transfer of grip can lead to a degree of fishtailing as power is being transferred, but it takes a driver of enormous stupidity to let that carry on to the point where it becomes dangerous and uncontrollable.

In the vast majority of cases, a LSD just provides huge amounts of traction and raises the level of control available under cornering especially. Where on an open differential car the inside rear wheel will spin away power under a sharp corner, and therefore lose considerable forward momentum and drive, the LSD-equipped vehicle will transfer power to the outside rear wheel where there's the most grip. The rear end will probably settle a little, the line will definitely tighten, and you can power the car all the way through the corner and out the other side carrying a much higher exit speed.

Under braking, an LSD on a rear-wheel drive car has no advantage whatsoever, as there is no direct drive going to the rear wheels
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      04-17-2009, 02:54 AM   #91
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Just thought I'd point out that after several days up santa pod in my 335d and trying every possible technique DSC on/off/half on, brake boosting, manual changing and auto changing!

The quickest time I set was brake boosting to 1500rpm and letting the box change gears itself!
14.0 in std 335d

An auto is easy to launch, simple as.
Anyone using my technique should easily be able to set a time under 14.5 (in 335d auto) driver skill is needed to get the correct amount of traction of the line and knock the time down to 13.9/14.0
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      04-17-2009, 03:19 AM   #92
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Thanks very much Tony.

Does that mean a 13.8 would indicate exceptional skill Sapphire

Matt
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      04-17-2009, 03:30 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Thanks very much Tony.

Does that mean a 13.8 would indicate exceptional skill Sapphire

Matt
No, it would show that the timing gear was faulty!
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      04-17-2009, 03:34 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Black Sapphire View Post
No, it would show that the timing gear was faulty!
haha, I can see you know what I am getting at - good answer

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      04-17-2009, 04:57 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Dave_3 View Post
That is assuming that changing up is over-ruling the shift points of the automatic box. And by logic that will only occur if you want to change up sooner, as later is not an option.

Unless you actually do get better progress by changing up sooner .... but my spidey-sense is telling me this might not be the case ?

Do you use the paddles, Carl ?

D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Sapphire View Post
Just thought I'd point out that after several days up santa pod in my 335d and trying every possible technique DSC on/off/half on, brake boosting, manual changing and auto changing!

The quickest time I set was brake boosting to 1500rpm and letting the box change gears itself!
14.0 in std 335d

An auto is easy to launch, simple as.
Anyone using my technique should easily be able to set a time under 14.5 (in 335d auto) driver skill is needed to get the correct amount of traction of the line and knock the time down to 13.9/14.0
This does confirm my spidey-sense. And it also raises the question (which I asked before in another thread) whether the mapped cars adjust the standard coding in the ZF autobox. The repy I got previously was they don't.

From my previous experience with ZF they do adjust their coding during the life-time of the box as normal improvements for smoothness/efficiency (I had more than a several new maps applied to my Jag). This is usually in combination with any ECU changes. Another question would be if the newer cars with ED have different coding of the ZF boxes ? Or if any adjustments are mainly done on the standard "D" mode ?

So a mapped car's shift points may not be optimised to take advantage of the new power/torque curves in straight line drags.

From what I have read so far, apart from modulating wheel-spin, timing the gear changes manually on the mapped cars seems to be where time is gained. Optimising your gearbox shift points would remove this ...

So if I was bothered enough to go 1/4 mile hunting with a vengeance I would decrease my weight (remove all rubbish from car no matter how trivial), increase launch tractability (sticky tyres - possibly of a slightly lower circumference, PSI, LSD etc.) and have a shift pattern for my box (Electonic) that matches my engine tune.

A slight aside: I had a play with my paddles last night () but I am used to a super short, switch-like quick-shift on my Escorts Type 9 manual box and the BMW's shift time when pulling a paddle seems like waiting for a bus.

D.
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      04-17-2009, 05:28 AM   #96
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My first ever Pod runs were at UK7

First attempt.........DTC on, left it in normal auto.........felt like a fast run..........15.4 or so

Tried a few more runs, all with DTC on, in a mixture of auto/DS

Fastest I got was 14.3 with DTC on and using the paddles in DS

Its not easy to get 100% perfect, big respect to Carlos's time of 13.1
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      04-17-2009, 06:20 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
Excellent post Matt, and I agree.

It you haven't tried it, don't knock it!

I admit, I thought getting a good run in an Auto was just hitting the 'Go' pedal when the light turned green was all that was required, but reality is far different.
OK SP is no race track with no bends etc and the perception is that no skill is required, but try it, and it's surprising how getting it so wrong can be so easy!

Good on you Carl, enthusiasm is something to be encouraged, not shot down in flames.
Hopefully now that Tony and Jules have added some gravitas to the thread it will stay on drag, it's just a shame that Carl is not afforded the same respect as others.

Thanks Ian, your A Top geezer. Looking forward too hooking up with you again soon bud!!





Quote:
Originally Posted by RockIt View Post
I'm sorry if this is deemed to be off topic or argumentative, but I feel that I must respond to this comment.

I am as entitled to my opinion as anyone on here is and saw fit to post as such. Just because you disagree with it doesn't give you the right to be so damned rude in your response.

I accept, having read Tony's excellent explanation, that there is a degree of skill involved. At least he chose to explain to people.

In response to your statement...' You aint even been on any track in your car have you',how the hell do you know what I have and haven't done in this car or any other? Unlike you, some people don't post every detail of their driving experience on the internet, so don't be so bloody presumptuous.

I shall now retire from this debate.
Ive not been rude at all.

No matter how i would have explained it, you woul have used it for a fightback. You wouldnt do that to tony.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Sapphire View Post
Just thought I'd point out that after several days up santa pod in my 335d and trying every possible technique DSC on/off/half on, brake boosting, manual changing and auto changing!

The quickest time I set was brake boosting to 1500rpm and letting the box change gears itself!
14.0 in std 335d

An auto is easy to launch, simple as.
Anyone using my technique should easily be able to set a time under 14.5 (in 335d auto) driver skill is needed to get the correct amount of traction of the line and knock the time down to 13.9/14.0
thanks for your input to this thread saffy

I did manage 13.9@101.5 in my denzil when she was standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Thanks very much Tony.

Does that mean a 13.8 would indicate exceptional skill Sapphire

Matt
that and a very good car underneath you also.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MOB View Post
My first ever Pod runs were at UK7

First attempt.........DTC on, left it in normal auto.........felt like a fast run..........15.4 or so

Tried a few more runs, all with DTC on, in a mixture of auto/DS

Fastest I got was 14.3 with DTC on and using the paddles in DS

Its not easy to get 100% perfect, big respect to Carlos's time of 13.1
Thankyou MOB mate!
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      04-17-2009, 10:45 AM   #98
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Fair play to you splosh....you got spirit boy and that has to be applauded.

I just cant wait to get some spare time as I got more than 2mm of rubber now lol...and it isnt 30 mph against the wind lol.

You have got a knack though at getting off the line, although I did 0-60ft faster than you on my 1st ever run lol...was spinning like a mothers...remember it well looking over and thinking wtf no grip but then with more torque nor did you infact you was worst off lol.

People should try it...its addictive.
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      04-17-2009, 01:56 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
Ive not been rude at all.

No matter how i would have explained it, you woul have used it for a fightback. You wouldnt do that to tony.
Carl. this is nonsense. Look back at my original post. Nowhere did it mention you by name. I genuinely stated that I didn't get the Pod experience. Others on here have now convinced me that there may be more to it. My original comment was certainly frivolous and obviously intended to provoke a reaction...but NOT aimed at YOU personally!

I still do believe that your response was rude...questioning the validity of my right to comment with a sweeping statement that I've never had track experience. Something you cannot know! I have actually driven on the track, strangely enough. It's not all about you, so drop the paranoia. Just because we might disagree on occasions doesn't mean that it's a black and white 'fightback'.

As I have stated previously, I admire your dedication to the car and to all things related to driving. If I disliked you so much that I was looking for a 'fightback' why the hell would I have invited you personally, by PM, to the Northern Meet?! Now let's put this to bed eh?

Gav
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      04-17-2009, 02:11 PM   #100
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Ok Gav,

Its in the bed.

Just I find it slightly annoying that you put down a form of motorsport which you have never even tried thats all.

I think you might actually enjoy it.
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      04-17-2009, 02:17 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
Ok Gav,

Its in the bed.

Just I find it slightly annoying that you put down a form of motorsport which you have never even tried thats all.

I think you might actually enjoy it.
It's easy to get annoyed on here.
Maybe I'll give it a go one day.
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      04-17-2009, 02:49 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
Ok Gav,

Its in the bed.

Just I find it slightly annoying that you put down a form of motorsport which you have never even tried thats all.

I think you might actually enjoy it.
I had absolutely no inclination to try drag racing but once I had , I could see the attraction - I'll be doing it again.
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      04-17-2009, 04:46 PM   #103
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      04-17-2009, 06:15 PM   #104
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interesting thread.

Ive done a 13.04 107 in my 335diesel
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      04-17-2009, 06:24 PM   #105
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I suppose I think Santa Pod is ridiculous and then I think of trying it... then trying it again... then I suspect that it's the kind of thing that could swallow you up because you'd keep going back - "this time I'll do this quicker, change at that point" all in pursuit of the fastest possible time for one's own car.

It would be bad enough being competitive with yourself but competition with others would definitely lead to burned clutches, bald tyres, expensive upgrades... one day you look round and you're addicted.
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      04-17-2009, 06:36 PM   #106
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I suppose I think Santa Pod is ridiculous and then I think of trying it... then trying it again... then I suspect that it's the kind of thing that could swallow you up because you'd keep going back - "this time I'll do this quicker, change at that point" all in pursuit of the fastest possible time for one's own car.

It would be bad enough being competitive with yourself but competition with others would definitely lead to burned clutches, bald tyres, expensive upgrades... one day you look round and you're addicted.

How about we set up a 1/4 mile in the Dales next Saturday Alan?! On second thoughts, Helen is there with her Porka Turbo...so we'll give it a miss!
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      04-18-2009, 04:04 AM   #107
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interesting thread.

Ive done a 13.04 107 in my 335diesel
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      04-18-2009, 04:48 AM   #108
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I had absolutely no inclination to try drag racing but once I had , I could see the attraction - I'll be doing it again.
Yeh I remember when you pulled the trigger and was like yeh why not...lol
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      04-18-2009, 11:54 AM   #109
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ooooo careful now! eating popcorn is now frowned upon here!
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      04-18-2009, 02:34 PM   #110
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ooooo careful now! eating popcorn is now frowned upon here!
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